Help needed dealing with Pay Pal resolution centre

[Colin_McLeod]

Hi all

 

I recently sold something on E bay and seven working days after I posted the item the buyer initiated an "Item not received" dispute. I can't find out where in the resoluton centre I can give a response, so I responded to the buyer by the normal "Contact buyer" process. The system does not know I have responded so I keep getting reminders. Can anyone advise.

 

The full details are as follows, but I have deleted anything name or reference that would identify the buyer.

 

Buyer's name:

Buyer's email:

Transaction ID:

 

Transaction date: Dec 6, 2009

Transaction amount:

Your transaction

Case number:

 

From: eBay Member: colin_mcleod (member@ebay.co.uk) Sent: 09 December 2009 17:02:24

Dear **BUYER**,

 

Hi. I have posted your item today. I hope you are happy with it when it arrives. If you are, I would appreciate positive feedback and I'll do the

 

same for you. If there are problems please contact me and I'm sure we can resolve them all.

Regards

Colin

- colin_mcleod

 

From: **BUYER**

To: colin_mcleod

Subject: **BUYER** has sent a question about: Item not Received for item ####, that ended on 06-Dec-09 **Time** GMT - **Item**

Sent Date: 15-Dec-09 10:17:21 GMT

Dear colin_mcleod,

 

Hi Colin

 

Do you know roughly how long it takes for parcels between Ireland and the UK.

 

Just wondering when to expect the **Item**

Don't want to start stalking the postman if its going to take a couple of weeks LOL.

 

Thanks

- **BUYER**

 

 

From: eBay Member: colin_mcleod (member@ebay.co.uk) Sent: 15 December 2009 17:37:32

Dear **BUYER**,

 

Hi

It can take anything from a week to 10 days. I would expect you to have the locomotive this week. If you don't have it by Friday, let me know

 

and I'll chase up the post office at my end.

Regards

Colin

- colin_mcleod

 

From: **BUYER**

To: colin_mcleod

Subject: **BUYER** has sent a question about: Item not Received for item ####, that ended on 06-Dec-09 **Time** GMT - **Item**

Sent Date: 18-Dec-09 09:49:23 GMT

Dear colin_mcleod,

 

Hi Colin

 

Still no sign of the **Item** , can you chase it from your end

 

Thanks

- **BUYER**

 

 

 

 

New Item Not Received Dispute: Case ##

From: service@intl.paypal.com Sent: 18 December 2009 09:58:15

To: **Seller@emailaddress**

Hello Colin McLeod,

 

**Buyer** has opened a dispute over the payment made to you on Dec 6,

2009 indicating that they never received the item.

 

-----------------------------------

Transaction Details

-----------------------------------

 

 

Buyer's name:

Buyer's email: **BUYER**@yahoo.co.uk

Transaction ID:

 

Transaction date: Dec 6, 2009

Transaction amount:

Your transaction ID:

Case number:

Your Transaction

Buyer's Transaction

Disputed Amount: ??**** The disputed amount has been temporarily

deducted from your account until the dispute is resolved.

 

 

 

By opening this dispute, **Buyer** is asking for your help to resolve

this issue. This is your best opportunity to resolve this problem before

the buyer escalates it to a PayPal claim or files a chargeback with their

card issuer.

 

From: eBay Member: colin_mcleod (member@ebay.co.uk) Sent: 19 December 2009 14:44:51

Dear **BUYER**,

 

I'll chase it up with post office when they open on Monday. I hope it is just delayed by Christmas post and not lost. I'll keep you up to date with

 

progress.

Regards

Colin

- colin_mcleod

 

From: eBay Member: colin_mcleod (member@ebay.co.uk) Sent: 21 December 2009 22:07:14

 

Details extracted from dispute centre:

 

Dispute History Log - All Results

The Dispute History Log displays all actions related to your claim. Date Actor Action Details

Dec 19, 2009 PayPal Email sent to seller

Dec 19, 2009 PayPal Email sent to buyer

Dec 19, 2009 Buyer Temporary hold placed on funds until case is resolved

Dec 19, 2009 Buyer Dispute escalated to claim

Dec 19, 2009 Buyer Dispute filed

Dec 18, 2009 PayPal Email sent to seller

Dec 18, 2009 PayPal Email sent to buyer

Dec 18, 2009 Buyer Dispute filed

 

Total Messages: 3

From PayPal: PayPal on 12/19/2009 03:11 PST

Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.

From Buyer: **Buyer** on 12/19/2009 03:11 PST

Dear PayPal I paid for this item on the 6th of December and have not received the item I paid for The item was only comming from the republic of Ireland so should have been with me by now, The republic of Ireland is a member of the EU so there would not be any customs delays as no duty is due, I therefore suspect that the item is lost and so would like to make a claim under the protection offered by the Paypal buyers protection scheme. Thank you

From Buyer: **Buyer** on 12/18/2009 01:58 PST

Hi Colin Still no sign of the **Item** Can you chase it up your end, it should have been here by now, even allowing for any customs delays Thanks

 

From: eBay Member: colin_mcleod (member@ebay.co.uk)

Sent: 21 December 2009 22:07:14

Dear **BUYER**,

 

Hi

This was one of seven items that I posted on 9th December 2009. I have received communication from five of these buyers to say that the

 

items have arrived. One of these items arrived as recently as today 21st December.

 

I have contacted An Post (The Irish postal services) and initiated a claim for a lost package. Ireland to UK is defined by An Post as an

 

international item. They won??™t pay any claim until 15 working days from the date of posting. 15 working days from 9th December brings us to

 

30th December. If the item is not delivered by that date, I will send you an immediate refund of the money paid, and I will be reimbursed by

 

An Post.

 

Of course, if the item arrives before then, the claim against An Post (and me) will be cancelled. If the item subsequently arrives after you have

 

been refunded, you will have the option of paying me the auction price again (including postage) or of returning the item at my expense.

 

I trust you find this response satisfactory.

Regards Colin

- colin_mcleod

 

Second Request for Information About Buyer Complaint: Case #PP-856-840-357???

From: service@intl.paypal.com Sent: 22 December 2009 11:12:44

To: **Seller@emailaddress**

Dear Colin McLeod,

 

We recently notified you of a complaint we received from a buyer regarding

merchandise that either was never received or did not match the original

description.

 

We may temporarily hold the funds associated with this transaction while

you respond with information about this case. Please review details of the

transaction below.

 

 

-----------------------------------

Transaction Details

-----------------------------------

 

 

Buyer's name: **Buyer**

Buyer's email: **BUYER**@yahoo.co.uk

Transaction ID:

 

Transaction date: Dec 6, 2009

Transaction amount: ??*** GBP

Your transaction ID:

Case number:

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

What to Do Next

-----------------------------------

 

To help us resolve this case quickly and fairly, please follow these steps

within 10 calendar days:

 

1) Log in to your PayPal account

2) Click the ???Resolution Center??? tab at the top of the page

3) Click the ???Resolve??? button next to this case

[Bruciethefish]

Paypal can be an awful nag, can't it! It looks like you've taken all the right steps, so there really shouldn't be a problem.. I'm still waiting for an item I bought on the 5th, & one of my buyers (at least) hasn't received something I sent out on the 11th, so it looks like the natural consequence of posting anything at this time of year.

It seems your buyer has little patience, & less understanding of life in the real world...

It does seem that paypal wants you, as a seller, to jump through hoops however, & doesn't seem to include options to cope with certain situations within its automatic responses.

THis will sort itself out, & there's no point in letting it bother you, even though its hassle you don't need..

[Paul-H]

The paypal system takes about 20 days to resolve any issue, so that gives about 30 days for the parcel to turn up, how long would you you wait for a parcel, I would be filing a claim long before 30 days if it was me waiting for something expensive.

 

If you followed paypals rules on posting you will have no problems, you did follow their rules I assume.

 

To quote corpral Jones " Don't Panic"

[Ragtag]

The entire setup is hugely biased towards the buyer, as a seller it's something you just have to live with. It sounds to me like you've been perfectly reasonable, and if I was the buyer I'd be more than satisfied by your response. After all - 15 working days is not excessivle, especially at this time of year - delayed parcels are not exactly unusual. I imagine the weather and travel chaos in the south of England will not have helped international mail.

[spamcan61]

The paypal system takes about 20 days to resolve any issue, so that gives about 30 days for the parcel to turn up, how long would you you wait for a parcel, I would be filing a claim long before 30 days if it was me waiting for something expensive.

 

If you followed paypals rules on posting you will have no problems, you did follow their rules I assume.

 

To quote corpral Jones " Don't Panic"

 

The things is Royal Mail will not start a lost parcel claim until 30 days after despatch IIRC, so, unless a different service / carrier has been used, there's not much point in trying to start a claim before thirty days is up.

[dave_long]

Hi Colin

I'm currently having a not recieved dispute myself at the moment but I'm the party that has not recieved the item. However I used the ebay dispute instead of the paypal dispute system, I had contacted the seller first, but once I'd opened the dispute the seller was made aware. However mine sounds a little more ammicable. I'm happy that the seller has posted it. My seller has been given a claim form (it wasn't a recorded delivery) and told he can only put the form in after 30 days, but is to give atleast 15 days (working) for the item to be delivered especially at this time of the year.

[Paul-H]

Why is it always assumed the buyer is in the wrong in these situations

 

Don't forget with paypal there is a time limit for starting a claim, if you wait to long, just to be patient and nice to the seller you may end up running out of time to make your claim.

 

Remember the buyer dosen't know if its not turned up because the seller has decided to not send it, look for the thread on this forum about the guy selling sound decoders that suddenly stopped sending his goods after ptoviding a faultless service.

 

I am not saying any seller is in the wrong, but if you buy something and it dosen't turn up what wrong with using the insurance that paypal offer, after all if it is lost the buyer gets his money back and the seller gets his money back by also claiming against the postal service.

 

Don't forget we all pay a high enough price in postal and ebay and paypal fees when it all goes right so whats wrong with using the protection offered by paypal in the postal service.

 

Mind you 'touching wood' I have used ebay and paypal for years and only once have I had a parcel not turn up and never had one I sent go missing. even had tree turn up today that were posted yesterday and I expect the 2 I posted today to be delivered tomorrow.

[Colin_McLeod]

E mail sent today to the buyer:

 

Dear **Buyer**

 

Hi

You have initiated a complaint about non receipt of this item. I have communicated with you directly but Pay Pal seem to be under the impression that I have not made any contact.

 

I offered you a full refund if the item does not arrive within the timescale defined by the mail service as "lost" i.e. 15 working days.

I would appreciate your advice as to whether this offer is acceptable to you.

Regards

Colin

 

 

E mail received 26/12/09 from buyer.

 

Dear colin_mcleod,

 

Hi Colin

 

I think it is now time that you accepted that this item is not going to be delivered, I have had Items from America in the time that I have been waiting the delivery of your item.

 

As far as I am conserned you should make a refund and accept the obvious.

 

Howevr if you want to await paypals investigations then that is also fine by me, that should drag it it out a couple more weeks and who knows baybe it will still turn up in the next few weeks, although I doubt it will no.

 

Regards

**Buyer**

 

My reply

Hi **Buyer**

 

I??™ll stick with the Post Office's own definition of lost i.e. 15 working days. On that day I'll process a full refund if you have not received the item by then. That will be quicker than waiting for pay pal.

 

By the way, do you know how to give a written response to a pay pal complaint? I can't find the mechanism to do so.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[dave_long]

Hi Colin

 

I take it that you haven't yet gone the full post office 15 days. Although I raised a ebay case instead of a paypal case (they are seperate) my case has now been closed. My item turned up and it turned up on the 15th day. I must also point out that my delivery only came from Lincolnshire and I live in Staffordshire, which really in the grand scheme of things is only a stones throw away. I would certainly hold fire until atleast 15 days, and make you sure you make it clear to the buyer that its 15 working days and thats at a normal time of the year.

 

hope it all gets sorted.

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Thanks for that Dave.

 

Yes, I have made it clear that it is 15 working days. I've given they buyer the date of the 15th working day i.e. 30th December and this takes into account the additional non working days at Christmas.

 

The two things that really cheese me off are (1) his impatience and (2) the Pay Pal complaints procedure does not offer any facility that I can find whereby I can write down my side of hte story. The only option it gives me is to give a refund. I might well end up doing that, but it would not be appropriate at the current stage.

 

Colin

[dave_long]

Hi Colin

 

Your buyer seems quite the impatient type and the paypal resolution system looks extremely more aggressive than ebays own resolution system. It may be wise to add a note to future listings to use the ebay system first rather than the paypal system if this occurs again.

 

Your situation seems similar to the seller that I was buying from, they sent out a number of parcels at the same time of which all arrived at their destinations with in a few days except mine. I did check twice with my sorting office but they didn't have it. My seller did ask for a little longer than the date that ebay stated he should have this sorted by to which I was more than happy to agree with. I think that a lot of hostility can be created by an impatient party. I was happy to wait as I'd would still rather have the item that I had paid for, than a refund. I was willing to except only a partial refund if the item was lost as I was taken with the helpfulness and genuine nature of the seller but then thats me ( I'm sure most wouldn't ), you could suggest it I suppose.

 

Sorry I can't be of anymore assistance and that it resolves itself.? 

 

NB Even though I have my parcel I do feel that I had rushed into myself however ebay/payapl do make it clear that you have limited time to make a claim, so that really doesn't help matters.

 

 

[Il Grifone]

You could try ringing Paypal (there's a contact number hidden somewhere on the site), but it took several tries before I found someone who knew what they were talking about.

[Guest ferries 2008]

try the "contact us". 3,different ways of contact,all secure......dt...worked for me..

[ie 201]

Colin sorry to hear of your dilema with paypal and an unpatient buyer, as he brought about the complaint don t go outside the process as you'll be left open if the model turns up, and you go looking for a refund. Is the parcel tracked? reason why i asked there was a case on IRM yuku site recently were the buyer received the item but denied it to the seller. last year i sent two locos seperately to the same address, one arrived within 7 days but the other took nearly three weeks so its not uncommon for different parcels to take longer to arrive at their destination. By law all parcels may be checked at either the Irish end(Portlaoise) or at the UK end, this is to stop contra band etc being passed through the post.

[Colin_McLeod]

Hi ie 2001

Unfortunately it was sent standard post, but never again.

Despite the numerous communications between myself and the buyer, and despite my requests to Pay Pal asking how to respond other than making a refund, PayPal have now closed the case in the buyers favour. At least that happened on the 15th working day after posting when I was about to make a refund anyway. My claim against An Post has now been started.

[Colin_McLeod]

I FINALLY got e mail correspondence with a HUMAN BEING at Pay Pal.

 

WARNING to all sellers. If you don't want to lose out when a buyer complains that the item you sold him/her has not arrived, then use a track and trace postal option.

 

Pay Pal have confirmed to me that if a seller uses a postal service that does not have Track and Trace, then if a buyer complains that the item was not received Pay Pal give the seller two options only. Either provide and Track & Trace number that proves the item did arrive, OR issue a refund.

 

THERE IS NO OPTION TO STATE YOUR CASE. Pay pal don't regard that as necessary. If you can't prove delivery, then your only choice is to offer a refund.

 

As a direct consequence of that policy all my sales in future will be posted out from Ireland by registered post. This is expensive. An Post is already more expensive that Royal Mail, so us Irish sellers are at a disadvantage already and this will make it worse. No doubt my rating on postal charges will get even worse now yet I never charge more that the actual postage cost and I make no charge for packing or my time.

 

I sold an item last week for GBP 3.20. It weighed 80g and cost EUR 7.05 (GBP 6.34) to post.

 

Thanks Pay Pal and An Post.

 

It will be more economical now for me to just throw surplus items in the skip.

[Ragtag]

Any joy claiming back from either of the postal services?

[Colin_McLeod]

Any joy claiming back from either of the postal services?

 

No joy at all as I was using standard post. I've just written it off to experience. The buyer did however say that if the item turns up he will pay again. That would be nice if it happens.

[Ragtag]

Have you tried Royal Mail? I thought Royal Mail guaranteed parcels up to ??39, even using standard post. I suppose they may claim they never received it from their Irish counterparts.