Superquick church

[Barry Ten]

The old Superquick church:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Superquick-Country-Church-Card-Model/dp/B002QVOH5K

 

Not knowing much about these things, is it loosely based on a particular style of church architecture? No prizes for "early cardboard".

[pete_mcfarlane]

IIRC there was a picture of the actual church in a 1970s Railway Modeller - I think it was in East Anglia. The nave looks like it is built out of flint which would also suggest somewhere in East Anglia.

[Rowsley17D]

Looks as though it could originally have been Saxon with larger windows and chancel added in early English period (1180-1275) with later storey to tower and spire added C14th century. Flint construction suggests Eastern England as already suggested.

[Barry Ten]

Thank you all!

[trisonic]

Can I just say: "Me Too!"? It looks like an amalgamation of the churches around my old stomping ground in Essex/Suffolk.

 

Best, Pete.

[Suzie]

There is one very similar near the GE main line not far from Ingatestone.

[trisonic]

Margaretting Church, I believe. Has it's own crossing?

 

Best, Pete.

[Suzie]

I think that is the one. It has a few more adornments than the Superquick, but is basically the same underneath.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Superquick kits are designed to be not too specific as regards to region. And flint churches can be found in regions other than East Anglia. Plenty, for instance, in Surrey and Sussex.

 

That said, IIRC Superquick's HQ was in Essex so very likely that they would have based their model on a local prototype.

[trisonic]

Yes, it is more than the flint the wood steeple is pretty distinctive, you can see an almost identical one at "St. Mary the Virgin", Shenfield.

Having just looked at St.Mary's it is more elegant and slender but obviously what Superquik were trying to achieve.....

 

Best, Pete.

[DaveF]

Margaretting Church, I believe. Has it's own crossing?

 

Best, Pete.

Photo of the crossing, part of the church beyond, also another image with the church in the distance.

 

Margaretting Hall level crossing 4th Oct 75

 

Margaretting Hall Class 309 602 up ex pass May 80

 

David

[Barry Ten]

Excellent, thanks again all.

[Campaman]

I have asked Superquick about their buildings in the past and the answer given was that although similar prototypes can be found the buildings are not based on any one single prototype.

[trisonic]

That's not what we are implying. It's definitely based on East Anglian design.

 

Best, Pete.

[The Stationmaster]

Certainly bears a very strong resemblance to the East Anglian examples quoted although it seems to have one problem with the main entrance going into the bottom of the bell tower. Not normally a problem but in this case the tower looks too short to have an intermediate floor for a ringing chamber so that would be a ground level - right in the main access to the church. Somehow I think not many folk will notice that in the model

[trisonic]

Yes, that is a compromise! It is far too small even for a small church.

 

Look at St. Mary's : http://www.stmarysch....uk/welcome.php The Door is to the right of the belltower/spire. Most were altered in QE1's reign to be rid of Catholic influences, East Anglian people were amongst the most forceful Protestants...

 

My folks are in this churchyard, next to Piers Courage.

 

Brentwood has a Cathedral, St. Thomas' where all the flint walls are visible and I think it is one of the biggest examples.

 

Best, Pete

[buffalo]

I'm surprised that so many of you seem to be fixed on East Anglia as a location. There are churches in East Anglia that bear some resemblance, and the Superquick/Essex association may be relevant. However, whilst there's little to suggest it isn't East Anglian, there is very little about it that specifically suggests it is as, for instance, the Norfolk round towers. There really is little similarity with St Margaret of Antioch at Margaretting, another picture here showing the added south aisle.

 

Let's take the main features in turn, first the basic shape. It has a simple chancel, aisleless nave, and a small tower. This, in itself, could be almost anywhere and suggests most likely an 11-13th century build with the windows replaced towards the end of that period, though, as someone mentioned earlier, perhaps the tower might be also be later. It also suggests a rural location in a village that never flourished beyond the 14/15th centuries and is probably now reduced to a hamlet of two or three farms. As a result, there was never the money to expand the church in later years. Of course, it is convenient for most model situations because of its small size and lack of later additions such as aisles, chapels, etc.

 

Next, the building materials which it has been suggested are meant to represent flint walls, presumably with stone quoins and other features. Yes, these are widespread in East Anglia, but they are also to be found anywhere on the chalk which is where flint is found. That also includes a large swathe of southern and eastern England from Kent, through Sussex and as far west as Wiltshire (North and South Downs, Salisbury Plain). Flint walled churches, whilst not always the majority are common throughout this area.

 

The small tower has a timber faced belfry and a broach spire finished in what looks like shingles. The broach spire is very widespread, being common in East Anglia and the South East, yet is found as far west as Cornwall, and in places to the north and west. If it is covered with shingles, that would again be appropriate for eastern and south-eastern areas without a local supply of good roofing slate or other tiling material. The wooden faced belfry probably also suggest that it is timber framed. Again this is common in southern and eastern areas, though shingles (see Margaretting photo links above) are, I think, more common than planking.

 

Finally, I'm suspicious of that door in the north wall of the chancel. Someone will surely find one if I stick my neck out and say that such doors in the north and south walls of small chancels like this did certainly exist in the past, but mostly have now long been blocked. If they remain in use, it is invariably because an 18/19/20th century vestry has been added to the outside of the church and they have become an internal doorway.

 

So, yes, it's a little odd, but wouldn't be too out of place almost anywhere in the south and east.

 

Nick

[trisonic]

An expert has spoken.

 

Best, Pete.

[buffalo]

Your word, not mine, Pete. I'm just an interested amateur. After all, I'm sure we all know some rather uncomplimentary definitions of 'expert'.

 

btw, thanks for the link to St Mary's, Shenfield. A very good example of a wooden boarded belfry.

 

Nick

[trisonic]

I meant it is not a topic that I am an expert in...

 

I did do some delving around and I find that that typical type of spire is termed in the "Essex vernacular" - but nowhere does it explain what that means exactly! Examples quoted can be squat, tall and slender, you name it. A more appropriate East Anglian style seems to be the round, flint tower but i've seen examples of that elsewhere....

There's probably exceptions to everything, somewhere.

 

If you get chance to visit St. Mary's, Shenfield, the interior is really exquisite.

 

Best, Pete.

[buffalo]

I think you're right, Pete, although I've also encountered the term "Essex Vernacular" referring to the local style of flint and brick walls. In the case of churches it seems to be used for the combination of timber framed belfry, or even complete tower, with timber or shingle cladding and a broach spire. The combination is common in Essex, whereas elsewhere the individual features are widespread but the combination less so. For example, many such belfreys in Kent and Sussex have simple pyramid shaped spires.

 

Broach spires come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, the key features are a square base which leads to an octagonal upper spire, usually via triangular patches at the corners.

 

Nick

[trisonic]

Nick,

And I saw a photograph yesterday that apparently showed a very typical Essex - type Broach spire in the vicinity of Andy York's stomping ground, Stafford.

Unfortunately when I went back to link to it, I couldn't find it. I'm not sure whether it was on a "Church" site or a "Railway" site - I hate it when that happens....

 

I really ought to know better about this subject because my one and only prize (non-sporting) that I ever won at any kind of school was for a scratchbuilt model church. My Father did most of the building, I seen to recall, Mother did the gothic windows and I did the cemetary and gravestones...I was 11 at the time. It had a square tower! The building was clad in that "bubbly" wallpaper popular in the early sixties.

 

Best, Pete.

[buffalo]

Pete, it's so annoying when that happens. I can't think of one in Staffordshire offhand, even though I lived there for a few years back in the 70s. There are also some wooden belfreys. Examples from a quick search include St Matthew, Harlaston and St Mary & All Saints, Whitmore, but neither have a broach spire.

 

Here's a couple from Kent and Sussex: St Eanswith, Brenzett, on Romney Marsh and West Chiltington. Both have shingle covered timber belfreys and broach spires but not flint walls.

 

Nick

[Campaman]

Like I have already said, Superquick them selves are saying that there buildings are a mixture of styles, so I don't think we can pin the church down to a explicit area, it just has a certain mixture of styles, I for one as a model think it looks good, although these days I would go along the scratch building route of something similar.

[buffalo]

Don't worry, Andy, I think we all accept that and gave up trying to pin it down ages ago. We've just been discussing where such style elements may be found.

 

Nick