69843 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi all, I have been trying without much success to find out the formation of coaches in Mallards 1938 record run. I know the formation was 4468+NER Dynamometer car+6 Coronation coaches, but I can't find out what the formation of the 6 coaches was for the down (record) run. If anyone can shed some light on this subject, it would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The opinion I have received as the best fit to the doors and windows visible in the photo of the ensemble waiting the off before the run is: following the dynamometer car, Brake third-Kitchen third twin, Open first twins, Open third-brake third twin. It's the protruding lower hinges of the doors which provide the most positive indication I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Just need some decent kits or rtr please !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flapland Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Just need some decent kits or rtr please !!!! Would be good if one of the RTR manufactures brought out Coronation coach sets for the 75th anniversary of the record run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 It has long puzzled me whether there were any regulations governing what a steam engine must pull when attempting a record run. It seems fairly clear that a loco on its own would be capable of achieveing a greater speed than one with half a dozen coaches behind but then it would be difficult to prove what speed had been achieved. So why did Mallard need to pull anything more than the dynamometer car? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Because I think that officially it was doing brake testing from high speed - but I may be wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 It has long puzzled me whether there were any regulations governing what a steam engine must pull when attempting a record run. It seems fairly clear that a loco on its own would be capable of achieveing a greater speed than one with half a dozen coaches behind but then it would be difficult to prove what speed had been achieved. So why did Mallard need to pull anything more than the dynamometer car? Because speed records are usually set in testing how a real train would behave so that schedules, braking distances etc. can be worked out for an actual service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Yeah, they were testing the Westinghouse brakes. They offered to disembark the westinghouse team when they were told an attempt was going to be made. The Westinghouse boys stayed on the train... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 The coaches provide extra brake force so they would have to brake much earlier without them. IIRC they double-blocked* for these runs in any case, choosing a Sunday to minimise disruption to or by other trains. What would they have had to do to ensure the line was clear if the stopping distance was even longer? *Don't recall if this was all the streamliners or just the brake tests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hi all, I have been trying without much success to find out the formation of coaches in Mallards 1938 record run. I know the formation was 4468+NER Dynamometer car+6 Coronation coaches, but I can't find out what the formation of the 6 coaches was for the down (record) run. If anyone can shed some light on this subject, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure what you mean by "the down (record) run". The record was set going "down" Stoke bank in the "up" direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by "the down (record) run". The record was set going "down" Stoke bank in the "up" direction. Thanks for pointing out my error DY444, I did of course mean the up run down Stoke bank. Thanks everyone for your swift and informative replies. now to go and model the train (*groan*). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Just need some decent kits or rtr please !!!! You mean like Lot #379, here? I wonder just how many of these were sold originally... besides this one, I recall another rearing it's head on Ebay a few years back, so they do appear from time to time. I'd wager Danny could shift another half dozen or more sets if it ever took his fancy to re-issue his etches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'd wager Danny could shift another half dozen or more sets if it ever took his fancy to re-issue his etches. I'd happily put down for two sets (plus that nigh-on-impossible to find dynamometer car). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I have the full set of Mailcoach kits for a Coronation set, bought on the basis that one day my masking and spray painting skills might be up to the job. Knowing that if not purchased, then I would get there on the painting front, and then a full set of the kits would be as rare as hen's teeth... Still not even decided if I would do them in original two tone blue or final maroon. Tending to the latter, which would make life that bit easier, but not as much fun. Incidentally a favourite photograph is Colour Rail BRE1136 in which a V2 is coming past Holgate platform in York in 1949 with a lengthy train, in the middle of which are a pair of coaches looking for all the world as though they are in 1960s BR blue and grey. A Coronation twin it must be... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 A Coronation twin it is. I have the same photograph. Danny Pinnock is producing his 4mm kits in small batches. If the OP (and others) want the Coronation set, why not get together and take expressions of interest and then approach him and see how many firm orders he'd want for a production run? Assuming he can still produce them, of course. I might be up for a Dynamometer Car if you decide to go along that route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It has long puzzled me whether there were any regulations governing what a steam engine must pull when attempting a record run... How about, there are no rules whatsoever! All the most discussed steam records in the UK are set downhill and one way only, with no set distance over which the speed must be maintained. City of Truro was going over a cliff, the Duchess going down Madeley Bank, the LNER records on Stoke Bank actually set on the shallowest gradient of all these. For many claimed records (and this is worldwide) it's a stopwatch and mileposts or rail joint counts and similar indicators of distance run that have been used. Relatively few records have had the instrumental track of a dynamometer car to enable post dash inspection to be possible. The more significant UK record is that of Silver Link's inaugural run on the Silver Jubilee where over 110 mph was sustained on a net level road: cleared the line, gave the driver his head and the speed was over the 100mph mark for past forty miles. Nothing else with UK steam comes remotely close. For what it is worth, beyond reasonable doubt the steam record for real speed lies with the F7 4-6-4 which believed to have achieved circa 120mph on level track, while operating the Hiawatha services. They could make the booked time for a 78 mile section start to stop for an average 81mph, the fastest steam schedule ever worked; (if I remember the figures right) when you work that out with the acceleration and braking phases you can see how fast it had to shove along to make time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Thank you 34C. I suppose rules are only relevant if enough people consider a record to be important and there is still opportunity to beat it. We Brits are proud of Mallard's achievement but it was only 1mph better than the German's achieved and that was what made me wonder if both achievements were under the same conditions. The state of Mallard after the run also to my mind takes some of the shine off it. I agree that the examples of Silver Link and the F7 are more impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Joe Duddington said that Mallard had more in her and could have hit 130mph were it not for the TSR at Grantham, but yes, the run nearly killed her. It makes you wonder what would have occured should Gresley have lived longer, WWII never happened and many proposed designs actually built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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