nimbamoss Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have a new Hornby HST and was wondering if I put sound in the motored end, can I also put a second sound chip in the dummy car running sound only and create a time delay so the set of 2 +8 trailers leaves the station with the realistic front car revs up then the second 2-3 seconds later. Thoughts and comments always appreciated. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NoggintheNog Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 2 sound decoders is certainly doable. The delay, well thats probably doable too, but not easily. Off the top of my head, you could perhaps achieve it with adjusting both start voltage and acceleration rates on the second decodeer to get it to respond slower simulating a delay,I'm not sure how good an effect it would produce though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I am unlikely to ever get a HST, lack of space being the first problem. However I can fully understand what you are trying to get! The sound of a HST departing a station, signal stop etc at full notch is well rewarding.... please advise how you get on... cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Im afraid im not sure how you would adjust the sound chips , but for an accurate HST 'sound' set up the power car on the rear of the train should idle at a higher speed than the leading power car - as its used to provide the train supply - So if your model was sitting in a station or at a signal , when it pulls away going up through the notches, the train should in theory start moving before you hear the engine speed change - as going from 'neutral' into notch one doesnt increase the engine speed - it just starts sending current to the traction motors - the leading power car should be heard to increase its revs as it goes from notch 1 to notch 2 - but the rear power car would not be heard to rev up at this point - as its engine would already be running at speed equivialnt to notch 2 - only after that - going up to notch 3 (and beyond) would the rear power car be heard to increase its engine revs - hence giving the 'delay' in the sounds between the 2 power cars. Would be great if it could be done properly! Thinking about it , it could be done if you had a sound chip specially set up/dedicated to be used for train supply - if your set was only going to be run in one drection. im sure howes or SWD could adjust the startup sequence and notching/idle speed if asked- it sould be possible - they may even be able to allocate train supply to one of the funtion keys? - maybe someone in the know could tell us if thats possible - would be great as ive got 12 power cars with sound .. Both the SWD and Howes HST sound chips are still pretty damn good as they come . ps If you've got a Virgin HST , you need a special sound chip that only has Notch 5 ; cross country drivers caned them good and proper - straight to notch 5 every time! '179 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 would be great as ive got 12 power cars with sound .. Wow I bet they sound/look nice have you got any vids or pics pref pulling out of a station and thrashing away? Cheers Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Afternoon - Im photographing my stock right now as it happends , to try out the new gallery here - I have just added a vid to the other dcc sound thread showing a mirrlees power car. tfn '179 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have two SWD decoders in my HST set, one in each power car. Other than setting a few CV's to make the horns only sound at the right end for the direction of travel they are as is out of the box. There is a natural delay in things happening between the two decoders which gives a very nice effect. They do rev before moving off which from the description of what should happen is wrong but I can live with it as it does sound rather good as it is. Here is a very poor video of what things sound like at platform level. First try at a video and is not very good but shows what the HST sounds like. Sorry about the CL 40 getting in the way. It does not show the difference in sound between the two decoders as this is only audible further away from the platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 . Other than setting a few CV's to make the horns only sound at the right end for the direction of travel they are as is out of the box. Goodevening - I didnt realise this was possible - could you explain how its done? ive fitted lots of sound decoders , but never really tinkered with the CVs of the sound decoders - other than the volume - (i find in the case of the HSTs less is more... TFN '179 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Just done this on the old forum a few days ago. I will have to dig it out as I dont have much time to do it now. As I said in the topic on the old forum, its far easier using the Lokprogrammer which I used. Easy to see and do using the interface the Lokprogremmer gives you. Will dig things out later unless some one beats me to it. Got to go out soon so it wont be tonight. But it can be done by setting CV's with out using the Lokprogrammer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Im afraid im not sure how you would adjust the sound chips , but for an accurate HST 'sound' set up the power car on the rear of the train should idle at a higher speed than the leading power car - as its used to provide the train supply - I stand to be corrected on this as this info comes from memories of work experience at SPM back in 1993 and watching HSTs at Taunton, but I'm fairly certain that the train supply load was shared between both powercars, and both idled at the faster speed (equivalent to notch 1) - I can never recall the leading powercar at idle, and the difference is quite distinct, as demonstrated here: After the start, the train supply button is pressed at 1:00, and the engine note changes noticeably. In this one: You can hear the lead powercar at fast idle, before working up to notch 5. (both are storming vids if you like a bit of Valenta BTW). As you can see from the second one, they don't always start moving before the revs build B) In terms of the sound delay between front and rear, I wondered if one decoder, and some sort of delay circuit could be used instead? Of course, that would involve through wiring the carriages, which could be a bit inconvenient. I've considered the same thing in conjunction with Sprinters, where the first car revs up 2 seconds or so before the second car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I stand to be corrected on this as this info comes from memories of work experience at SPM back in 1993 and watching HSTs at Taunton, but I'm fairly certain that the train supply load was shared between both powercars, and both idled at the faster speed (equivalent to notch 1) - I can never recall the leading powercar at idle, and the difference is quite distinct, as demonstrated here: After the start, the train supply button is pressed at 1:00, and the engine note changes noticeably. In this one: You can hear the lead powercar at fast idle, before working up to notch 5. (both are storming vids if you like a bit of Valenta BTW). As you can see from the second one, they don't always start moving before the revs build In terms of the sound delay between front and rear, I wondered if one decoder, and some sort of delay circuit could be used instead? Of course, that would involve through wiring the carriages, which could be a bit inconvenient. I've considered the same thing in conjunction with Sprinters, where the first car revs up 2 seconds or so before the second car. The best practice , although not maybe not always carried out is for the rear power car to supply the train . In the event that the rear power car failed you could then just switch to using the alternator in the leading power car to supply the train - so in theory without having to leave the cab , or again , in theory , even having to stop the train,and loose time etc etc . i know what you mean - they dont tend to hang around in notch one for very long as you'd want to get the thing moving sharpish, or the train could be on a gradient , so yes youll need more power to get moving - so yes sometimes revs before movement - but sometimes the other way round aswell - The er 'correct' practice i alwyas heard with these is to go through each notch with a pause between, rather than pedal to the metal but theres plenty on youtube that shows that not always the case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted October 15, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2009 This is a trickey one to achieve on a sound chip. I have 2 different sound files one for each car and this is the approach I have adopted. The start up is on different functions. Even though only one car is powered the start volts are set 2 points different, the acceleration and deceleration are not equal. This not the ideal answer particularly when I change direction. I'm still experimenting with the programmes/CV's but the result so far I think is pleasing. Some observers think its JLTRT but others are not convinced but them sound is subjective. Mike The best practice , although not maybe not always carried out is for the rear power car to supply the train . In the event that the rear power car failed you could then just switch to using the alternator in the leading power car to supply the train - so in theory without having to leave the cab , or again , in theory , even having to stop the train,and loose time etc etc . i know what you mean - they dont tend to hang around in notch one for very long as you'd want to get the thing moving sharpish, or the train could be on a gradient , so yes youll need more power to get moving - so yes sometimes revs before movement - but sometimes the other way round aswell - The er 'correct' practice i alwyas heard with these is to go through each notch with a pause between, rather than pedal to the metal but theres plenty on youtube that shows that not always the case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adge-peanuts Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I collected my pair from Howes yesterday. Have sound fitted them both. With thanks to Bryan I have now got them sorted so that the horn only works in the direction of travel. Am so in love with the sounds the produce. Another Superb Sound project to add to my fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Ive also got the Howes HST power car sound chips fitted to my virgin HST set but cant identify how to change them so that the Horns work for direction of travel. Any idea how it can be done.... or suggestions please? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adge-peanuts Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I Asked Bryan The sound wizard from Howes if he could sort mine. I understand it is done using Cv's but i dont know which ones. Might be worth contacting Howes and seeing if they can help with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Its all to do with CV's 155 to 164. But, I have SWD HST sound files loaded into mine so depending which way Howes have done thirs, the solution may not be the same. But for SWD it is done by setting the sound slots to work in only one direction that are controled by the function buttons that control the horns. I used the ESU Lok Programmer and found the horns loaded to F2 & F3 So set the leading power car CV155, this control F2, to its default value, cannot remember what it was, but set the leading power car CV158 to 0 as this stops the horn sounding when you press F2 and the car is operating in reverse. Same for F3 which is gives the two tone horn as opposed to the single tone on F2. Use CV161 and CV164 Do the opposite for the other car so it only sounds in reverse. Leave CV158 at its default and make CV155 0. Then do the other CV's WARNING DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!!!!! Make notes of the settings you change before doing this in case I have got it wrong as I am doing it from memory. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought the sound experts woud have picked this up before now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 31, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2009 Ive also got the Howes HST power car sound chips fitted to my virgin HST set but cant identify how to change them so that the Horns work for direction of travel. Any idea how it can be done.... or suggestions please? Thanks in advance copy of an email i've had from bryan the CVs for the 125 horn sounds to play in the direction of travel are CV 158, 164 and 170. set all three CVs to zero on both power car decoders, they will then sound only at the leading car end, as I did for adge Peanuts. this is only for the Howes decoders, other suppliers decoders functions and CVs may vary so there you go, straight from the man who knows! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 copy of an email i've had from bryan the CVs for the 125 horn sounds to play in the direction of travel are CV 158, 164 and 170. set all three CVs to zero on both power car decoders, they will then sound only at the leading car end, as I did for adge Peanuts. this is only for the Howes decoders, other suppliers decoders functions and CVs may vary so there you go, straight from the man who knows! That is not actually the case, I tried doing this with Black hats set tonight and all that happened was both cars lost their horns going 1 way but the other way they both still sounded. The Hornby HST car is wired up backwars in the dummy it seems so in the power car you need to disable the rear horn but in the dummy you need to disable the forward horn - not sure on the cv for the front horn but fortunantly with an ECoS controller you can disable individual sounds at the touch of a button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 2, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2009 try this then, again from bryan (who has just realised his mistake!!) The CVs for the other direction are 155 161 and 167, if they are set to 0 on the trailing car instead of the 158 164 and 170 CVs that will do it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thanks for the help guys. I had the power cars down at Edwards layout last night and we ended up using the previous instructions and a logical brainwave by Edward to solve the problem. The power cars are now working as they should. Will have to get a clip of them on Edwards layout running as mine is under construction (long term!). One thing Ive noticed is that the Cab light still comes on when the lights do. Is there no way that such a instruction couldnt be made to be on of the auxilliary functions on a sound chip. Im happy with the way that mine is running at the moment, but this might be something that Bryan and the Howes lot want to consider to give them that added extra dimension of reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adge-peanuts Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I disconnected my cab lights from the circuit board. To me cab lights are notjing more than a gimmick.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yeah I can see why you might think that they are.... however my railway has a station where the engines are due to stand for some time, if not already moving to a seperate platform. As a result, something like that might be a nice touch and head in the direction of some DCC modellers who want litterally all lights and gadets working... like orange door open lights on some units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimbamoss Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hi Chaps, Well I took the plunge, speakers going in both power and dummy cars! Just need to save up for the chips! but birthday and christmas coming should easily complete the task Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I have just got myself a new HST set with one SWD Class 43 V 4.0 decoder - I will be getting a second as funds allow. The advice I need is really about sound levels. The supplied speaker is surprisingly small - a round version of roughly 20mm dia. I have installed it under the large roof grills facing straight up but the sound is very tinny and not very loud, very subdued in fact, even with CV63 set to its maximum of 128. However the volume of the horns is superbly set and so this is a trait also demonstrated by my sound fitted Class 37s - loud horn, quiet engine. The speaker value is 4 ohm - is this whats holding the sound back - is that value too low? Is it just a cheap "slap it in the box" factory speaker that doesnt really suit this application meaning a speaker upgrade is always needed? The instruction sheet states speaker values must not exceed 8 ohm but that I could wire in 2 x 4 ohm in series or 2 x 8 ohm speakers in parallel. Not sure how to do this if this is even necessary. Has anybody ditched the standard speaker supplied by SWD/ESU and gone for something else which has released more sound and reduced the tinniness? Should I move the speaker away from the roof grills or try to encase it in some kind of sound chamber? Failing that perhaps Howes offer a louder version? Any advice from those in the know really appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hi No ESU supply great speakers with their decoders. I consider them when fitted properly better than any bass reflex etc speaker. Have you fully sealed the speaker? This is so important. This is leggomanbiffos HST sound and I would highly recommend it plus this is n gauge sound so imagine how much better in a 00 model with a speaker twice or 3 times the size. Best of luck. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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