Calling all layout planners

[Rowsley17D]

Due to an impending house move, I will get a loft with a workable height layout area of 26' x 12' with boards 3' wide. I work in 00 FS and would use SMP for the scenic sections and Peco 75 with large radius point for the fiddleyard. Time - LMS (M) 1930s.

 

I would like a through junction station with goods facilities a la Hawes Junction or Millers Dale (before the track was widened to four running lines) and also a rural MPD a la Rowsley. I don't mind gradients not less than 1 in 100 so the FY could be hidden under a scenic section. I would quite like the junction to end somewhere if possible a la Worksworth, rather than in the FY.

 

There's a chimney through the centre of the loft and while a 3' wide board will go either side, I'm not sure how long it is but I say about 3'.

 

Is it possible to get all this in without the layout looking all track?

 

So over to you guys who enjoy playing planning layouts with Templot etc..

 

Thanks

[cbeagleowner]

Hi there - I have less space then you, but have managed to put a representation of Hassop on 1 16ft side of the loft, with boards 2ft wide, and a fiddle yard on the other, though I've toyed with idea of a representation of Rowsley shed there as well. My loft hatch is about 2ft 6 by 18 inches, so not large.

 

If you are looking for a good plan, Bill Hudson's through Limestone Hills has a plan of Millers Dale before the widening. The thing to remember about MD is that the gorge affects the layout of the goods yard - it's not 'traditional midland'. You do have the limeworks nearby though. Chinley before widening is the other junction that could be good. Chesterfield is also a junction to the North and South (a fair way) so the layout there might help you. As is Rotherham Masboro'. On a smaller scale, Dore is a nice country junction, and would have some great motive power. If you want another MPD idea, Millhouses is nice - it's bigger then Rowsley, but you can have allsorts of interesting stuff there.

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Hi

 

Anything like this?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25736-over-haddon/

 

Gary

[Physicsman]

Jonathan, sketch your outline plan onto paper, scan it and post it on here. Or - do you have any software to conjure-up a rough plan?

 

This could be an interesting project!

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

Jonathan, sketch your outline plan onto paper, scan it and post it on here. Or - do you have any software to conjure-up a rough plan?

 

This could be an interesting project!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff, I am looking for some blue sky thinking for the good memebers of this forum in the hope I could hit the ground running on moving in to the new abode. People like Gordon and to a lesser extent Larry and your good self have made several changes to your layouts in the early days and I was hoping to avoid this if possible, although no doubt there will inevitably be something that needs altering. I believe Anyrail is fairly easy to use so may have a go with that and see what I can come up with but I didn't want to limit folks in their thinking other than with what I have already stipulated.

[The Stationmaster]

Jonathan,

 

I think you could get in a stacked/folded figure eight with gradients like those (I'm looking to get one into a slightly narrower and shorter space and I think it will fit but the woodwork involved is rather frightening) and you might even get a peninsula in off the 12ft side for a branchline. The only problem is how big a radius you want for your curves at the end as it can eat into the straight you have left.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think you will be fine with that much space to play with.

 

Assuming that the chimney breast is not too much of an obstacle, I can see potential for a more interesting shape to the layout than just boards round the edge of the room - although that might mean some duckunders.

 

Staying with the Peak District theme, two options suggest themselves.

 

The line was originally supposed to carry on northwards from Rowsley. So you could have a junction there with branch to Buxton via Bakewell.

 

The Wirksworth branch was supposed to continue northwards to rejoin the mainline near Matlock. So a Matlock adjusted to become a junction station is also possible.

[Rowsley17D]

Hi

 

Anything like this?

http://www.rmweb.co....36-over-haddon/

 

Gary

 

Thank Gary. This certainly gives the flavour of what I would like. Is that Hassop or Chinley first station you have modelled?

[Rowsley17D]

Jonathan,

 

I think you could get in a stacked/folded figure eight with gradients like those (I'm looking to get one into a slightly narrower and shorter space and I think it will fit but the woodwork involved is rather frightening) and you might even get a peninsula in off the 12ft side for a branchline. The only problem is how big a radius you want for your curves at the end as it can eat into the straight you have left.

 

As big as possible for the main line. Could be reduced for the branch as it would be used by small 0-6-0s and 0-4-4Ts.

[The Stationmaster]

As big as possible for the main line. Could be reduced for the branch as it would be used by small 0-6-0s and 0-4-4Ts.

 

Worth trying then to fit a peninsula perhaps?

[Anglian]

I think you will be fine with that much space to play with.

 

Assuming that the chimney breast is not too much of an obstacle, I can see potential for a more interesting shape to the layout than just boards round the edge of the room - although that might mean some duckunders.

 

Staying with the Peak District theme, two options suggest themselves.

 

The line was originally supposed to carry on northwards from Rowsley. So you could have a junction there with branch to Buxton via Bakewell.

 

The Wirksworth branch was supposed to continue northwards to rejoin the mainline near Matlock. So a Matlock adjusted to become a junction station is also possible.

 

That was my thought as well. I think some reading around the 'what-ifs' and if they had come to fruition might help you. If you find midland station layouts/junctions you like I guess you could transpose those to the Peak District. For example, you could take a cut down Hellifield and move that to a location along the Derwent roughly around where the mass of the Rowsley sidings were and make that your junction with mainlines going north along the Derwent and west to Matlock via Bakewell. Just a thought and I've no idea of the space the real track formations would take but it sounds as if you have a very useable space to play with.

 

If you don't already have it I strongly recommend you buy both Bill Hudson's book and Jenkinson's Historical Railway modelling. The latter has a good number of Midland inspired layout concepts drawn up and they might inspire you.

[Rowsley17D]

Hi there - I have less space then you, but have managed to put a representation of Hassop on 1 16ft side of the loft, with boards 2ft wide, and a fiddle yard on the other, though I've toyed with idea of a representation of Rowsley shed there as well. My loft hatch is about 2ft 6 by 18 inches, so not large.

 

If you are looking for a good plan, Bill Hudson's through Limestone Hills has a plan of Millers Dale before the widening. The thing to remember about MD is that the gorge affects the layout of the goods yard - it's not 'traditional midland'. You do have the limeworks nearby though. Chinley before widening is the other junction that could be good. Chesterfield is also a junction to the North and South (a fair way) so the layout there might help you. As is Rotherham Masboro'. On a smaller scale, Dore is a nice country junction, and would have some great motive power. If you want another MPD idea, Millhouses is nice - it's bigger then Rowsley, but you can have allsorts of interesting stuff there.

 

There was little traditional about the Peak line, the stations were not typical Midland although a lot of the layouts were.I have Bill's book so may have another look.

[cbeagleowner]

There are afew good what ifs innthe peak. to begin with when the duke if rutland refused to ket a line go through his lands, the projected route north was through chatsworth, then back riund to hassop. anbranch could then go off firm shaw knoll north of rowsley to bakewell.

 

There was a also a porposal to carry on north and join the hipe valley line near hathersage. Meaning that thenhope valley from hathersage wouldnhave been the main line as well as featuring all the traffic to gowhole which menas garratts!

 

the line to Wirksworth was built at one level to combat the lnwr getting their hands in the ambergate - rowsley line. I the event of that, they would have tunnelled and built another line to rowsley. That would have meant two lines through Matlock which would have been interesting, though one would have become a lame duck very quickly. Still some fun what ifs. I would go for heather sage junction...

 

Or if you want something really fun, chesterfield joint - midland and gcr

[Andrew P]

Check out Physicsman in Special Interest,= Kirby Lunside, a great plan and working the same way as yourself, he knows his stuff, All the best and I am looking forward to keeping an eye on this over the coming years, Andy.

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Thank Gary. This certainly gives the flavour of what I would like. Is that Hassop or Chinley first station you have modelled?

 

 

Hi

 

Over Haddon, is just a figment of my imagination, set somewhere, in White Peak, may be Larkhill. Has already pointed out, if you set your model in this area, you will have a legitimate reason to run a Garret.

Good luck

 

Gary

[Rowsley17D]

Hi

 

Over Haddon, is just a figment of my imagination, set somewhere, in White Peak, may be Larkhill. Has already pointed out, if you set your model in this area, you will have a legitimate reason to run a Garret.

Good luck

 

Gary

 

Gary,sorry I was a bit vague.It was the station building itself,was it modelled on Great Longstone (not Hassop as in previous post as this was a copy of Bakewell and Rowsley) or is it the first Chinley station building?

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Hi

yes its Great Longstone, turned round 180 deg.

 

Gary

[Rowsley17D]

Check out Physicsman in Special Interest,= Kirby Lunside, a great plan and working the same way as yourself, he knows his stuff, All the best and I am looking forward to keeping an eye on this over the coming years, Andy.

 

Andrew, I avidly check Jeff's progress daily and sometimes twice a day, and Gordon and Larry and even yours!! Inspirational modellers all.

[Physicsman]

Andrew, I avidly check Jeff's progress daily and sometimes twice a day, and Gordon and Larry and even yours!! Inspirational modellers all.

 

Thanks for the compliment Jonathan. Or were you just referring to Larry, Gordon and Andy!!

 

I'm really pleased you got round to starting your own thread on here. It'll be great to see some of your ideas "on paper". Btw, although not perfect, Anyrail does the job. My problem was with the turnouts - Anyrail doesn't have the Marcway geometry. But if you are using Peco 75 with the SMP, you'll be fine.

 

As far as making changes - I think that's the fun of the whole thing. It's taken me two-and-a-half years to evolve my plan to where it is, and I still think it's improving. I'm at the point of tracklaying, and do agree that - at that stage - you don't want to be changing things.

 

Jeff

[Joseph_Pestell]

Agree with Jeff that you don't want to be making major changes once you start tracklaying. But I would even go further than that and say that for your project you want to be fairly sure even before you start building baseboards. It has not been mentioned but I am assuming that layout is to be a permanent fixture - not designed for boards to come out of the loft. If that is indeed the case, type of baseboard will be influenced by location you choose to model. Miller's Dale (or perhaps you could call it Tideswell?) has far more spectacular scenery to accommodate than Rowsley or Chinley.

 

I think that Rowsley with the old loco shed and just some exchange sidings for a branch rather than the full-on marshalling yard may be your best option. But I am still working on how you might incorporate the original station into the plan. It would be a shame to lose that.

[Rowsley17D]

Agree with Jeff that you don't want to be making major changes once you start tracklaying. But I would even go further than that and say that for your project you want to be fairly sure even before you start building baseboards. It has not been mentioned but I am assuming that layout is to be a permanent fixture - not designed for boards to come out of the loft. If that is indeed the case, type of baseboard will be influenced by location you choose to model. Miller's Dale (or perhaps you could call it Tideswell?) has far more spectacular scenery to accommodate than Rowsley or Chinley.

 

I think that Rowsley with the old loco shed and just some exchange sidings for a branch rather than the full-on marshalling yard may be your best option. But I am still working on how you might incorporate the original station into the plan. It would be a shame to lose that.

 

Joseph, No, the layout will not come out except in bits!

 

I was thinking about using Jeff's idea of a sub-frame to support the trackwork on risers, although I doubt mine will be bomb-proof like his. This means the ground can fall away to the sub-frame. I also like Gordon's box girder construction in his original Eastwood Town for the gradients if I have any.

 

I was thinking more about the new Rowsley shed but not with the marshalling yard. The fiddleyard will act as this off-scene. I don't want to model Rowsley station building but was more thinking about Millers Dale buildings with Hawes Jct track layout. Possibly the station on one side of the 26' and the shed on the other, with the FY underneath one or the other. It would be good to have the jct terminus on a peninsula but I will have to wait until I can get into the loft to see if it will fit.

[Rowsley17D]

Thanks for the compliment Jonathan. Or were you just referring to Larry, Gordon and Andy!!

 

I'm really pleased you got round to starting your own thread on here. It'll be great to see some of your ideas "on paper". Btw, although not perfect, Anyrail does the job. My problem was with the turnouts - Anyrail doesn't have the Marcway geometry. But if you are using Peco 75 with the SMP, you'll be fine.

 

As far as making changes - I think that's the fun of the whole thing. It's taken me two-and-a-half years to evolve my plan to where it is, and I still think it's improving. I'm at the point of tracklaying, and do agree that - at that stage - you don't want to be changing things.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff, You were included to.

 

I want to try Templot eventually but thought I would use Anyrail to get me started. I want to use Marcway points and SMP on the scenic parts and Peco 75 from my existing layout with large radius points for the FY.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Jonathan,

 

Becoming a bit clearer now.

 

With 26' of length, probably no reason why you should not have the MPD and the fiddleyard along the same wall at the same level. But that depends on how long you want the trains to be. That suggests then a three-track section of line running around a large radius curve to the junction station along the other wall and the branch above the fiddle yard.

 

A Hawes Jct type station should be OK but you will probably want to be able to run trains directly off the main line onto the branch. Buxton is a rather more important location than Hawes and had through trains from Derby and elsewhere. I like the buildings at Chinley but the justification for platform buildings with first floor accommodation (ticket office) is that one side of the line, the access was from the top of a high retaining wall. I'm not sure how well those buildings would fit in with a smaller station at a less hilly location.

[The Stationmaster]

I think JP has made a very important point above - you need to decide how long you want your trains to be - and that has to be one of the starting points because it will influence a lot of your layout planning (and not just storage sidings). And you need to relate that train length to your available space as you start to try to fit in various layout ideas and features - you might find it helps to adjust the train length (usually downwards) as certain other ideas crystallize but it will always be a critical dimension.

 

Hawes Jcn track layout has an oddity (the turntable and its position) but is otherwise quite straightfoward apart from not allowing facing entrance of the Midland through lines to the back platform (but allowing facing departures from it to the through lines in both directions) so if you have a junction like that you need to think how it would be used in your scenario.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Jonathan,

 

Becoming a bit clearer now.

 

With 26' of length, probably no reason why you should not have the MPD and the fiddleyard along the same wall at the same level. But that depends on how long you want the trains to be. That suggests then a three-track section of line running around a large radius curve to the junction station along the other wall and the branch above the fiddle yard.

 

A Hawes Jct type station should be OK but you will probably want to be able to run trains directly off the main line onto the branch. Buxton is a rather more important location than Hawes and had through trains from Derby and elsewhere. I like the buildings at Chinley but the justification for platform buildings with first floor accommodation (ticket office) is that one side of the line, the access was from the top of a high retaining wall. I'm not sure how well those buildings would fit in with a smaller station at a less hilly location.

 

Just realised that I have gone OT. You mentioned Millers Dale buildings, not Chinley.

 

But to some extent, remarks still apply. Millers Dale buildings only really became interesting after the widening to 4 tracks.

 

I think the Hathersage idea mentioned above might have some mileage but need to look at OS map to see how it would work.