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Were there any joint LNER SR lines


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What's now Thameslink around Farringdon, certainly saw LNER engines (I have a pic of a J50 near Smithfield Sidings) but it's not a Joint line as such.

And pre-WWI it was used by SECR services to North London suburban stations.

 

I think the two lines mentioned - the City Widened lines (now Thameslink) and the East London Line, were the only two places where the SR and LNER met.

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Remember the West London Line, though not joint LNER/SR would have seen both companies stock working through. How about the Dudding Hill line? That I think was LNER but joined the SR at Kew.

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At last we have a reason why northerners and southerners don't see eye to eye.

Until the latter were Bulleid into submission...

 

The 'jointness' of London is underexploited. both by modellers and the RTR manufacturers. Here was the place where the most meetings took place. Modelling the KX area I can have loco types off LMR, SR and WR every day as the goods were tripped around the metropolis. Sadly, KX loco request to trial an ex GW 2-8-0T never came off though.

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There were coal depots in south London operated by other companies, e.g. Midland at Brixton or Midland/LNWR at Peckham Rye. Trains over the Widened Lines were operated for a long time by condensing Midland 0-6-0Ts of 2441 class or displaced 2-6-2Ts, and J50s, with N1s (and probably others but I'm going by photos I've seen) banking up to Ludgate Hill. British Railways Illustrated Vol 16( 8 ) (2007) has an article on the Midland workings.

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Remember that the Widened lines through to Moorgate were built and owned by the Metropolitan Railway and were built with connections to the GNR at Kings Cross. It was the GNR that provided locos when the Met fell out with the GWR during 1863. The connection from Farringdon to Ludgate Circus through the Snow Hill tunnel was built by the LCDR in 1865.

 

The Thames, and of course central London itself, with the prohibition on lines through the centre of London was a natural barrier to LNER/SR joint lines.

 

The nearest that could be said to be a Joint line was when Sir Edward Watkin chaired the GC, the Met and through that controlled the East London Line, and the SER.

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I have seen reference to regular Liverpool St - Croydon services, and I think that the departure indicators at Liverpool Street (before the electric indicators were installed) included East Croydon as a destination (might be on the ones preserved at Mangaps Farm).Might be similarto the 1992 central line tube stock including a destination of Ongar!

 

I just had a look in J.E. Connor's Liverpool Street to Ilford which mentions that the Surrey services had stopped by the time of the grouping in 1923 which precludes LNER and SR.

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Remember too the GW broad gauge service from Paddington to Victoria via the WLL! The Gw also had a coal depot at Clapham Junction on the Brighton side. I'm sure the LNER had a coal depot in Battersea near the Dogs' Home.

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Remember the West London Line, though not joint LNER/SR would have seen both companies stock working through. How about the Dudding Hill line? That I think was LNER but joined the SR at Kew.

 

The Dudding Hill line was pure Midland, though there was a spur from the GCR at Neasden.

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Remember too the GW broad gauge service from Paddington to Victoria via the WLL! The Gw also had a coal depot at Clapham Junction on the Brighton side. I'm sure the LNER had a coal depot in Battersea near the Dogs' Home.

 

Battersea Coal was Midland as far as I can trace while South Lambeth Goods - to the north of it - was Great Western. Although regular GWR services to Victoria ceased in 1915 (22 March) the GWR remained a joint lessee of the eastern part of Victoria station until nationalisation. The GWR received powers in 1859 to lay broad gauge rails into Victoria but I'm not certain if these were exercised. The oldest service timetable I have for the area is 1892 and it shows the trains as 'Narrow Gauge'; at that time there were 6 trains in each direction daily between Southall and Victoria and in the 1901 service timetable there were nine - no Sunday service.

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Battersea Coal was Midland as far as I can trace while South Lambeth Goods - to the north of it - was Great Western. Although regular GWR services to Victoria ceased in 1915 (22 March) the GWR remained a joint lessee of the eastern part of Victoria station until nationalisation. The GWR received powers in 1859 to lay broad gauge rails into Victoria but I'm not certain if these were exercised. The oldest service timetable I have for the area is 1892 and it shows the trains as 'Narrow Gauge'; at that time there were 6 trains in each direction daily between Southall and Victoria and in the 1901 service timetable there were nine - no Sunday service.

 

The broad gauge were definitely laid into Victoria and so far as I know were used for a while at least. I think there is a photo of a GW train at Victoria showing BG track in situ, but I can't remember what gauge the train was. A quick question on the BGS Yahoo list might elicit an answer.

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Battersea Coal was Midland as far as I can trace while South Lambeth Goods - to the north of it - was Great Western.

 

as shown on RCH junction diagram 017:

1280px-Clapham_Junction%2C_Stewarts_Lane%2C_Lavender_Hill_%26_Longhedge_RJD_17.jpg

 

for the East London Line north end, diagram 045:

1280px-Aldgate%2C_Bishopsgate%2C_Haydon_Square%2C_Liverpool_Street%2C_Mansion_House%2C_Spitalfields_%26_Whitechapel_RJD_45.JPG

 

East London Line south end, diagram 091

1280px-Bricklayers_Arms_%26_New_Cross%2C_Midhurst_RJD_91.jpg

finally one showing the KX/farringdon/holborn area, diagram 084

1280px-Camden%2C_Hampstead_Road%2C_Kentish_Town%2C_King%27s_Cross%2C_Maiden_Lane_%26_St_Pancras_Blackfriars%2C_Snow_Hill_%26_West_Street_RJD_84.jpg

 

note: all images stated as being public domain as on this page

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What about Oxford? Obviously not a joint line, but the LNER and SR both worked to Oxford.

 

I've read reports of V2, B12, D16 & K3's working into Oxford and I've see a photo of a 4-4-2 Atlantic in LNER livery hauling GWR coaches on it's way to Sheffield.

 

In fact, I think Oxford is one of the very few stations that all of 'Big Four' working it. I've always been surpised that it hasnt been modelled before actually.

 

If I could find a decent track plan of it I'd do it Trainz actually.

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