HeavyDuty Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I'm trying to research how passenger services were run on East Anglian branches ca. 1959-60 and could use some advice on what I need. I see reference to "Working Time Tables" - what kinds of information are contained in these, and to what level of detail? Assuming a WTT is appropriate I think I need the edition prior to this one to cover my area of interest: http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/wtt/eregion/br31227-9-j-211160.php Are specific WTTs generally easy to find? Here in the States we have "employee timetables" that give very detailed information about the line and scheduled trains. Is a WTT similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Excellent! Very much like our ETTs, then. Thanks for posting them! Question - is there a section that defines the head codes? For instance, will it tell me the origin and terminus of 1E85? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mornin' Try Googling Stewart Blencowe Railway Ephemera of Gloucester, he'll have a Working Timetable or two for whatever you need and for a sensible price. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Question - is there a section that defines the head codes? For instance, will it tell me the origin and terminus of 1E85? Usually (and it appears so in this example) if the origin or destination is outside the area of that timetable it is given at the head of the column. Otherwise it is the first/last place where a timing is given. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ....some headcode letters define a region e.g E is for Eastern, S is for Scottish whereas Z indicates an inter-regional special train, T an internal special. Other letters are within region and individual WTTs specify them. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 It can get really complicated! For example, trains 2E01 to 2E51 (odd nos only) from (London) Cannon Street in the '70s were all stations down the Greenwich line to Dartford. OTOH, 2E71 to 2E89 in the evening peak ran the same route - but skipped a load of stations, being fast to Woolwich Arsenal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ....but therein lies the opportunity to individualise the layout and demonstrate good levels of research! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonHGB Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 If I may add a quick question here, what does 'Conditional' train services mean, when applied to a WTT? Thanks in advance. Jon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Excellent! Very much like our ETTs, then. Thanks for posting them! Question - is there a section that defines the head codes? For instance, will it tell me the origin and terminus of 1E85? There is - as already instanced by others - but in the period you are interested in the 4 character headcode system had not been introduced (it first appeared on the Western Region for the 1960 summer timetable) although some Eastern Region trains had numbers - which they didn't usually carry but I'm not sure if that practice went beyond the ECML. If you want to put together a complete range of understanding British operating practice you need a number of documents, viz :- 1. The Rule Book, in your case the pocket size 1950 black cover Rule Book, it contains the operating Rules plus a lot of information about signals. 2. The General Appendix (to the Rule Book and Working Timetables), this is where you will find the details of headlamp codes and train classification plus a lot of detail about train working. Alas your period is on the cusp of change as the former Company Generneral Appendixes remained in use until the end of September 1960 although many changes had been made to them since 1948. You should however find a 1960 Appendix relatively cheaply, the Company ones cost more. 3. The next level down is the Sectional Appendix for the are you are interested in, these give details of local operating procedures and thus modify or clarify application of the Rule Book and General Appendix. They too were all reissued in October 1960. SAs tend to be quite pricey due to their rarity and to be honest are only really essential unless you are very deeply into things. There are also the Signalling Regulations but again I would recommend you only look for these if you are deeply interested - you would be able to establish the basics through questions on here if you are interested. And, like some of the other publications, the former Company Signalling Regulations, albeit with many changes since 1948, remained in use until the end of September 1960 with the added complication on the Eastern Region that different books (and hence slight differences in the regulations themselves) were in use on different parts of the Region according to the Pre-Grouping boundaries. October 1960 books are usually quite cheap - the older ones are very difficult to find and are consequently more expensive unless you strike lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 If I may add a quick question here, what does 'Conditional' train services mean, when applied to a WTT? Thanks in advance. Jon. It means the train running (or not) is conditional - for example on whether there is a load for it. Mandatory trains run no matter what (in theory) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mandatory services must run (even light loco) because they are normally part of a diagram and the traincrew, loco etc will be needed in the right places throughout the diagram. This is not the case with Conditional services. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mandatory services could be cancelled - just a potential problem to sort when you cancelled them. The biggest difference between mandatory and conditional was that the mandatory trains were resourced in that they had diagrammed traction and crew. The conditionals weren't necessarily fully resourced as the loco, in particular, and men might be there in order to work a number of different trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mornin' Try Googling Stewart Blencowe Railway Ephemera of Gloucester, he'll have a Working Timetable or two for whatever you need and for a sensible price. Dave Thanks for that, Dave - I'll seek him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 You can also try this link: http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/wtt/wtt.php Possibly a little bit more expensive but also a good selection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks, Flood! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 On an offtopic note, thank you for posting that specific WTT extract! As a former Grimsby resident I found it highly interesting, particularly as it predated the closure of a lot of the signalboxes in the area. I suspect many modellers would think placing signalboxes 72 scale yards apart was a little implausible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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