Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

All depends on things such as whether your trackwork is outstandingly excellent and whether you want the loco just to pull trains or do you want it to set back smoothly through curves and crossovers without derailment. My trackwork I will freely admit is imperfect and I do expect my locos to be able to execute all available moves on the system. If you have perfect rail joints, perfect point blades and perfect crossing geometry everywhere, or you only want the loco to go forwards or make short set-back moves on plain track then leave the rear wheel arrangement alone.

Edited May 3, 2015 by gr.king

[jwealleans]

Further to Graeme's post, I have left the arrangement on my C1 as designed and up to now it has run fine on Grantham as well as the handbuilt (and rather less than perfect) track on Corfe. That has included a deal of testing in reverse through pointwork precisely because Graeme had found it necessary to modify his.

[gr.king]

My track must be dire!

[Mallard60022]

Craig Donald posted this on Farcebrook Signal Box Forum

Specially for the Tour of Yorkshire that passed by.

Brilliant.

P

Edited May 3, 2015 by Mallard60022

[Woodcock29]

Hi Tony

I'm interested in following your construction of the DJH C2.  I built one over 20 years ago and found a number of issues related to scale, originating perhaps from the fact the kit has an over-scale driving wheelbase to enable it to accommodate near scale driving wheels.  I shortened the footplate at the front by about 4mm (from memory) and reduced the width of the footplate by cutting it down the centre to remove about 1.5mm.   I have attached a photo of my C2.  More recently I have become aware that the frames of the tender and the loco below the cab are too deep and this becomes more evident when looking at photos of the prototype as more of the wheels are visible than in the kit loco.   Mine is also too tall overall but I'm not sure that can be fixed as the buffer height is about right.

 

Its too late for me to alter mine but you might consider removing maybe 1.5mm from the top of the brass tender and loco frames.

 

Andrew Emmett

South Australia

[gr.king]

If you want to go well "off piste" with a DJH Atlantic you can always add more gears to transmit drive to the trailing wheels too, then you can put full weight on them, have loads of traction and be as sure as you can that they won't want to climb up over the rails unless very severely provoked.

[t-b-g]

A small request.

 

I and I am sure a lot of others are very interested in the Retford project but sadly we do not hear too much about it. It must be one of the most ambitious layouts of present days. I wonder if it would be possible to have a few pictures of the current position on the railway.

 

By the way the J19 uses a standard B12 tender. Roger who made it was a well known bodger of such thigs in his 4mm days!

 

Regards

 

Martin Long

 

Retford was the subject of a series of photos in one of the "Modelling Inspiration" RMWeb supplements a while ago and has not changed substantially since.

 

There are some more signals and a number of part finished more significant projects, such as Babworth bridge and a lot of houses down West Carr Road (on the Down side at the North end of the layout) and a brave soul has started on some point rodding.

 

Roy Jackson will having a demo stand at EXPO EM at Bracknell in a couple of weeks and will be giving a "Retford Update" presentation, including photos taken recently by some chap called Tony Wright..... the name sounds familiar. Perhaps Roy could be persuaded to  allow some of the photos to appear on here for those that won't get to Bracknell.

 

I will ask the question!

 

Tony G

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony.

 

You may or may not remember we met at the York show a few weeks back and you very kindly tried to help me find a small tapered reamer. It is helpful to see your Klondyke build as I am am just getting started on the DJH C1 kit which is in many ways identical. I may not get as nice a result as the Bachmann one but building is the fun bit. Is there any chance you could let us see under the body of your C2? I have an excellent article by Graeme King in BRM that recommends swapping the way DJH suggest doing the rear wheel for a pony truck - which I can see the sense in but am a bit nervous about doing the cut out needed in the chassis!

 

Thanks

 

Phil

 

IMG_0740.JPG

Phil,

 

Apart from a different motor gearbox, my Klondike chassis is exactly the same as yours. Unless your trackwork is poor, I wouldn't recommend altering the pony truck (which is sprung slightly). In fact, with the one I'm making I've restricted the sideways movement of the pony wheels to stop the loco 'waddling' too much from side to side, such is the short coupled wheelbase. It now behaves like a sort of short-wheelbase 4-6-0 and runs more steadily.

 

 

 

The two pictures above show the chassis thus far. The drivers are Scale-Link, which aren't quite right but they run well. There is no side play in the driving axles and very little in the pony. Though the frames are OO, by the time it's finished the the too-narrow aspect won't be too noticeable. Because I wished to obviate the threat of any short circuit caused by bogie wheels touching the frames/cylinders, the whole chassis is electrically-dead. 

 

 

 

One thing I haven't mentioned for some time is my drawbar arrangement. Most kit-built ones are just plain daft (especially those which use the pony as the puller) and RTR ones are a pain in the bottom. Mine consists of just a hole drilled in the loco dragbeam, a split-pin inserted with a coil spring (coupling type, cut-down) into which engages a 'hook' made out of 26 SWG/.45 mm nickel silver wire, soldered to the sub-frame of the tender between the first and second axles, thus giving flexibility on curves. On the straight, the gap is tiny but it expands on curves. 

 

I certainly recall our meeting at York, and I shall never buy anything again from that extremely rude tool-seller (not Eileen's, I hasten to add). What did he say when I asked for a one-eighth taper reamer? It must be April the first? Perhaps if he reads this, he might like to look at exactly what a one eighth taper reamer looks like.

 

 

Here's mime, some 40+ years old and still going strong in its tap-wrench. It's only one eighth at the point of the arrow, but it cuts absolutely dead true up to that measurement and gives a perfect working clearance through top-hat bearings. Straight reamers, though they have a slight taper to begin with, cannot cut (in my experience) quite as accurately by hand. The full taper one does it automatically - thousands of times. 

 

As a rule of thumb regarding purveyors of things, might I offer this advice? Just because they've never heard of such a tool, don't assume (through puerile sarcasm!) that it doesn't exist but assume that the potential buyer knows what they're asking about. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

A small request.

 

I and I am sure a lot of others are very interested in the Retford project but sadly we do not hear too much about it. It must be one of the most ambitious layouts of present days. I wonder if it would be possible to have a few pictures of the current position on the railway.

 

By the way the J19 uses a standard B12 tender. Roger who made it was a well known bodger of such thigs in his 4mm days!

 

Regards

 

Martin Long

Many thanks Martin. 

 

As for your request, I've spoken with the great man and he's quite happy to have the following pictures of Retford posted. His talk at Bracknell should not be missed!

 

 

 

 

 

[gr.king]

I could be wrong, but memory suggests that my copy of the DJH Atlantic instructions suggested springing that rear carrying axle using two lengths of 0.7mm dia wire, which, given the short lengths involved, was ridiculously stiff! By the look of it Tony has used 0.4 or 0.5 N/s wire, which is more in line with common sense, but when I tried that (after failing hopelessly with the recommended thicker wire) I still had no joy. I've a feeling that a longer set of springy wires would be better able to cope with undulating and curving track, but with my chosen drive layout it wasn't readily possible to install longer springy wires. The advantage of mounting the rear carrying wheels in a separate (hidden) pony truck was that with the ability to "steer" correctly, keeping the flanges in line with rails, those wheels behaved themselves without having to carry any weight transferred from the rest of the loco. All weight was thus available for adhesion.

 

If others find that far simpler arrangements work faultlessly then so much the better.

Edited May 4, 2015 by gr.king

[Theakerr]

Many years ago I had an A5 that exhibited less than stellar running qualities and, based on an article by Tony about an A5 he had "fettled". I put in a DJH motor and gearbox.   Instantly, it became an excellent runner  This motor and gearbox have now gone into 4 locos, all with good results.  Fast forward to the present day when, as a result of this thread, I acquired a SE Finecast  FE019/1024 motor gearbox kit to re-motor a Comet chassis powering a Bachmann J39.  Said chassis had a Porterscap motor and was beautifully smooth but howled so badly you could hear it two rooms away.  Pleased to report that the SE gearbox/Mashima motor/combination was extremely easy to build, is quiet, is very responsive and with all the weight I have in the Bachmann, pulls like a Mac truck.  Two out of Two Tony - Thanks

As an aside, this proves the value of the forum and this thread because I live in Canada and without them it is most likly that I would never have become aware of the kit.

No connection with SE Finecast just reporting on a quality product and good company

[jrg1]

Many thanks Martin. 

 

As for your request, I've spoken with the great man and he's quite happy to have the following pictures of Retford posted. His talk at Bracknell should not be missed!

 

Retford 15 02.jpg

 

Retford 15 04.jpg

 

Retford 15 07.jpg

 

Retford 15 10.jpg

 

Retford 15 15A.jpg

Can you ask him to start a thread on RMWeb?  Retford must be one of the most discussed layouts anywhere, and having Roy Jackson and Geoff Kent musing on here would be most welcome.

[Cleefy]

Can you ask him to start a thread on RMWeb?  Retford must be one of the most discussed layouts anywhere, and having Roy Jackson and Geoff Kent musing on here would be most welcome.

 

Given his recent editorial in MRJ, I wouldn't hold your breath...

[St Enodoc]

Many thanks Martin. 

 

As for your request, I've spoken with the great man and he's quite happy to have the following pictures of Retford posted. His talk at Bracknell should not be missed!

 

Retford 15 02.jpg

 

Retford 15 04.jpg

 

Retford 15 07.jpg

 

Retford 15 10.jpg

 

Retford 15 15A.jpg

Tony, that first picture with the signals is a corker. What does Roy use to operate them?

[pete55]

Tony, that first picture with the signals is a corker. What does Roy use to operate them?

 

All signals on Retford are operated by miniature servos. T-B-G could probably give more details.

[Phil Brighton]

Tony, Graeme thanks for the comments on the DJH C1/C2 and for pictures. Its all really helpful.

In the end after some testing I found the rear wheel did ride up and over on some points. However it was few enough to make me think adjusting the track was the better way and it seems ok now. I suppose it comes back to the conversation earlier about good running. For me running trains is done in short sessions as a way to relax and its not very relaxing if they fall off the track so I guess its worth plugging away at.

[t-b-g]

Firstly, thanks to Tony W for arranging with Roy to put some photos up. You beat me to it!

 

I haven't been directly involved in any of the signal work on Retford myself but I have seen some of it being done.

 

There was an article in MRJ No 201 by Martin Lloyd showing how some of the Retford signals were rigged up to servos, using the MERG drive boards.

 

Since the article was written, John McCrea designed the etched servo mounts that are now part of the MSE/Wizard range and they have been used for the more recent signals.

 

Tony

[glo41f]

Thanks for the Retford pictures. Gosh it is a huge undertaking! You have to admire Roy Jackson's vision and commitment in starting this mega project. It must be rewarding for him to see it meshing together though there is still seemingly major work to finish (if a model is ever finished!) I am in total admiration of the chap.

 

As a result of some spring cleaning here, I found the MRJ which described Dunwich. It was an amazing layout for its time and some of the pictures that went with the article are the most realistic ever. (I cite the shot of the Brit going over the river bridge.)  Roy told me that the layout was sold and he thought it was converted to P4/S4 (what an undertaking!). I wonder if it still exists.

 

Roy and his team have been pushing the envelope for 20 odd years now and are still doing so.

 

Martin Long

[Woodcock29]

Tony

Thanks so much for posting the photos of Retford.  It brings back my visits to see Retford in 2008 and 2013.  Roy and his team certainly have my admiration for what I believe is the greatest railway modelling project of a British subject.  I have also had the privilege twice to see the late Bill Richmond's LMS Mainline in S4 based on Euston to Tring in New Zealand (MRJ 26, 27, 105 and one other the number of which escapes me at the moment).

 

Andrew Emmett

South Australia

[APOLLO]

Retford - I only visited once back in Jan 1970, just after starting work thus being able to afford to travel further afield. Steam had long gone, but there were still semaphores, and a mixture of blue & green diesels, and, of course Deltics.

 

A couple of my pix here  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67100-apollos-grand-days-out/&do=findComment&comment=917866

 

The Retford layout, like Tony's, is superb.

 

Just a thought. Time flies, and it will only be through models and photos that future generations will enjoy such sights. I hope that top quality layouts, like the above two will somehow be kept for posterity. Difficult question as they are personal effects, but a subject worth some thought.

 

Brit15

[LNER4479]

Just a thought. Time flies, and it will only be through models and photos that future generations will enjoy such sights. I hope that top quality layouts, like the above two will somehow be kept for posterity. Difficult question as they are personal effects, but a subject worth some thought.

 

Worth a separate thread in MM&M?

Edited May 6, 2015 by LNER4479

[pete55]

 

 

Just a thought. Time flies, and it will only be through models and photos that future generations will enjoy such sights. I hope that top quality layouts, like the above two will somehow be kept for posterity. Difficult question as they are personal effects, but a subject worth some thought.

 

Brit15

 

One of the aims of AIMREC as I understand it is to try and save such gems for the future.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82173-aimrec-ashford-international-model-railway-excellence-centre/

Edited May 6, 2015 by pete55

[ianwales]

 

 

As a result of some spring cleaning here, I found the MRJ which described Dunwich. It was an amazing layout for its time and some of the pictures that went with the article are the most realistic ever. (I cite the shot of the Brit going over the river bridge.)  Roy told me that the layout was sold and he thought it was converted to P4/S4 (what an undertaking!). I wonder if it still exists.

 

 

 

Martin Long

 

Hi Martin

 

Dunwich was indeed sold to a Micheal Brooks who subsequently converted it to S4, it was renamed Ufford and an article and photos appeared in MRJ issue 134, however, some time later the layout was advertised for sale in the MRJ so what became of it afterwards I don't know.

 

Ian

[46256]

Does anyone know what became of the late Bill richmonds layout, I remember reading in the MRJ article that he had intended to build a model of Euston itself. My title betrays my allegiances, however have always been in awe of the eastern inspired layouts subject to these posts. I had the privilege of seeing Retford at Warley some years ago. I had the even bigger privilege of having my scratch built A1/1 being allowed a run on Roy's Dunwich layout some years earlier, when The Warley show was held in Smethwick... I thought I had created s good model....and Roy and his team were very kind...but oh dear studying the photos now...Thankfully I replaced the scratch body with a se fine cast A3 cab boiler and retaining the home build chassis and front end. The model is not in same league as the A2/2 that commenced this piece,but it satisfys its harshest critic...me...and sits amongst a display case of my favourite locos rarely if ever running on my LMR (midland division) layout.

The point of this.what will become of these layouts ? The good ..the bad....and the absolute works of art and historical record that Retford, Bills, Mr Wrights, and dare I say a certain western region o gauge layout...

 

In any event if they achieve nothing else the pleasure they give to their creators, and the rest of us looking for inspiration and enjoyment.

[westerner]

I may be wrong but I understand converting it to P4 was not over successful.