Wright writes.....

[unclebobkt]

 

      ... .

   Does that mean that BRM is the equivalent of Vogue magazine?

 

       But don't both of them feature models?

         

[Mallard60022]

In some cases yes. Using Hornby LMS Stanier corridor and non-corridor coaches and Bachmann LMR Porthole and BR Mk.I coaches, it should be possible to model accurate L.M.Region trains in the mid 1960's. But moving back a few years to 1960 is a different kettle of fish and going back further really involved building coaches. The Eastern and Southern Regions are easier but the worst region catered for by RTR companies is the Western. I have just etched a mid 1930's 'B' set, and if anyone is reading this, where can I obtain short GWR buffers?

Larry, ask Rob on ANTB.  I'd only be guessing if I suggested anywhere to look.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

You know, I think we can all get a little too engrossed in how we need to do things on our railways and perhaps get caught in the 'Oh, I must become an expert to be able to do this or that ' trap.

Yesterday morning I was feeling very poorly after being 'glutened' (unintentionally I hasten to add) and decided that I would take a quick look at TW's first DVD about Little Bytham. Someone had mentioned this DVD a few days ago and spookily I found said DVD just a few hours after that. All I wanted to do was remind myself how the scenery, especially the cutting sides, had been created.

Lo, there was TW with strips of cardboard and pieces of kitchen towel + PVA and some plaster. Later there was some lining material for planters + PVA. Yes, as simple as that; thank goodness was my reaction to a well used but really simple process. In fact it was so relaxing watching and listening that I was falling asleep (just as Tony got onto electrics) and so I then retired to recover (took until very late evening; being glutened is quite like being poisoned). I hasten to say, recover from being glutened, not from listening to Mr W. 

For many of us the construction of the railway we want to see is really just a series of creative acts. Some of these 'acts' will need 'expertise' of some sort. Many will really only require the employment of simple techniques, a little stagecraft and a quantity of illusion.

Let's not get too overwhelmed in the need for total authenticity. That can become a hurdle that many will never be able to overcome.

OK, my layout (if it ever gets completed) may be pantomime rather than RSC, but it will be entertaining and a little amusing but it will tell a good story and at my age that's what I need........(perhaps that's why I do so enjoy watching most of TW's DVDs?)

Phil

[Taz]

..... I have just etched a mid 1930's 'B' set, and if anyone is reading this, where can I obtain short GWR buffers?

 

Coach,

 

This has been recently discussed here with regard to E147 B sets:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106815-gwr-e147-b-set/

 

A couple of possible solutions for you to consider.

[Tony Wright]

You know, I think we can all get a little too engrossed in how we need to do things on our railways and perhaps get caught in the 'Oh, I must become an expert to be able to do this or that ' trap.

Yesterday morning I was feeling very poorly after being 'glutened' (unintentionally I hasten to add) and decided that I would take a quick look at TW's first DVD about Little Bytham. Someone had mentioned this DVD a few days ago and spookily I found said DVD just a few hours after that. All I wanted to do was remind myself how the scenery, especially the cutting sides, had been created.

Lo, there was TW with strips of cardboard and pieces of kitchen towel + PVA and some plaster. Later there was some lining material for planters + PVA. Yes, as simple as that; thank goodness was my reaction to a well used but really simple process. In fact it was so relaxing watching and listening that I was falling asleep (just as Tony got onto electrics) and so I then retired to recover (took until very late evening; being glutened is quite like being poisoned). I hasten to say, recover from being glutened, not from listening to Mr W. 

For many of us the construction of the railway we want to see is really just a series of creative acts. Some of these 'acts' will need 'expertise' of some sort. Many will really only require the employment of simple techniques, a little stagecraft and a quantity of illusion.

Let's not get too overwhelmed in the need for total authenticity. That can become a hurdle that many will never be able to overcome.

OK, my layout (if it ever gets completed) may be pantomime rather than RSC, but it will be entertaining and a little amusing but it will tell a good story and at my age that's what I need........(perhaps that's why I do so enjoy watching most of TW's DVDs?)

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

I'm amazed at how popular all the DVDs were. The first Right Tracks on loco kit construction just flew out (so much so that I had to get up before the birds one morning to collect a further box prior to an Ally Pally show). The others did as well - the right time, the right people and the right production team. Something that'll never happen again. 

 

I think you're right in saying that in striving for total authenticity a project can be overwhelmed and even overwhelming, but it's still good to 'aim' as high as possible as one can. I've found it very rewarding to research into my chosen prototype and try and get things looking as 'real' as possible. As I've said many times, I've been extremely fortunate in receiving so much as help as I have done, because, without it, I'd still be just making locos and stock for a future project.  

[Poggy1165]

I suppose the question might be 'how did we get where we are' and each person has their own answer to that. In my case Airfix (and Kitmaster) kits were certainly part of the 'apprenticeship'. I built dozens, planes, ships, and road vehicles as well as railway vehicles and buildings. Some were atrocious jobs, but no one taught me. I just picked up the technique as I went along. The frustration used to be that I couldn't get the engines, coaches and wagons to run properly. Things like adding weight and fitting decent wheels never crossed my mind, and I don't think I'd have known where to get wheels anyway. I don't recall exactly when I started building these kits, but I was certainly in short pants and at primary school. I wonder how many boys of today do the same thing? Very few, I should imagine. I notice that some of the modern aircraft kits are pre-painted and just clip together. Where's the challenge in that?

 

I have essentially followed on from that, and what 'technique' has not been acquired by trial-and-error has (mostly) been influenced by things people of written in the modelling media (including RMWeb) or explained to me by patient individuals.

 

Would I  be a better modeller if at some time in my life I had gone off for a six month course taught by the best professionals? Undoubtedly! But such a course was never available and nor could I have afforded it if it had been.

 

I have been lucky enough to be able to buy in other people's work from time to time. And for the rest, I muddle through as best I can. I shall never match the work of the best people on here if I live to be a hundred and ten, but I try, I seek to improve, and as long as I enjoy myself I don't worry too much.

 

Bottom line is, I don't think there's a right or a wrong way, there's your way. 

[Tony Wright]

I don't think there is a date that would not require some kit building. For my part, looking at real trains and then copying them isn't finicky, it's common sense. You have to be pretty disciplined to complete most model railway projects. Obstacles will always be there, overcoming them is as much about the mind set of an individual, as it is about the learning, or application of  practical skills. If you set yourself a goal, (in my case, I shall build a set of prototypical trains) then you will learn the skills you need to realise it.

I think we can all be finicky at times, though, like everything else, it's a question of degree.

 

I first really looked at the making of ECML prototype passenger trains over 25 years ago, and concluded then that just about everything would have to be made from kits/adaptation. The arrival of Bachmann's Mk.1s eased the situation (a complete Morning Talisman for instance), but kit-building/adaptation was, and still is, necessary. For instance, Mk.1 BSOs have to be made, catering twins/triplets, all sorts of other articulated stock and so on. Hornby's latest Pullmans have made it easier to model those fabulous prestige sets, but there are still many cars which have to be adapted. 

 

So, I continue to build/modify carriages because it's important to me that I've made those things myself. In the past it was entirely out of necessity, but now it's more because I enjoy doing it. And, isn't enjoyment the principal reason for railway modelling? 

[coachmann]

Coach,

 

This has been recently discussed here with regard to E147 B sets:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106815-gwr-e147-b-set/

 

A couple of possible solutions for you to consider.

Thanks for this. I found a GER close-coupled buffer and attempted to place and order. All the boxes were filled in then I was told to create an account and click on an email . Waited and waited but email did not come through. Back-clicked a page and was told I already have an account. Well yes but where is the ruddy email? Result...stumped!!! No sale. How this sh*thole of a country survives is beyond me when it is a trail trying to trade.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 How this sh*thole of a country survives is beyond me 

 

Don't get me started.  I have to attend a meeting at 2pm at which the tabled documents contain 500 pages.... aha, says I  - time to go paperless!  

 

Unfortunately the Head Nabobs decided to inflict buy my team iPads, even though we are completely windows PC based, and the surface tablets are cheaper (for us) than iPads, and the small fact that our tech support team don't support Apple products....  

 

It took me and the tech guy the best part of two hours to move a set of PDFs from my email into a shared google drive and then synch the various IDs, logins, passwords and sh1te

 

Two hours when I already had stuff to do...

[coachmann]

While awaiting the fabled email to confirm account, I attempted 8 times to make a purchase from this firm for 4 sets of buffers without success. The chrome auto fill tripped me up 5 times sending me to other pages that I did not understand. When I finally tried to make a purchase by not registering, I was eventually required to pay by PayPal. What is wrong with debit cards for christs sakes?   I dont have a PayPal account!  So there we are. I can make quite large purchases when stocking up with parts for a new coach production, but when firms put obstacles in my path, they lose out.  ¾ hour down the drain!

Edited January 27, 2016 by coachmann

[billbedford]

While awaiting the fabled email to confirm account, I attempted 8 times to make a purchase from this firm for 4 sets of buffers without success. The chrome auto fill tripped me up 5 times sending me to other pages that I did not understand. When I finally tried to make a purchase by not registering, I was eventually required to pay by PayPal. What is wrong with debit cards for christs sakes?   I dont have a PayPal account!  

 

You don't need a PayPal account. The PayPal login page should ask if you want to pay with a card.

[KalKat]

Coachman - you can create a Paypal account linked to your debit card (like mine) needing only an e-mail address - it becomes your account name/address.

 

This offers certain advantages as it isolates your  card from some dangers and they offer money back and chasing for you. There is also the advantage of speed and simplicity.

 

Emma

,

[billbedford]

For my part, looking at real trains and then copying them isn't finicky, it's common sense. 

 

 

That's not what I had in mind. It's more that I was trying to understand which models you were suggesting were inaccurate. I'm guessing that these would be the old Bachmann Thompsons and the Hornby corridor  Gresleys?

[coachmann]

You don't need a PayPal account. The PayPal login page should ask if you want to pay with a card.

Thanks Bill. I never got that far as I'd had enough and was due out. Got back home and found packets of Bachmann buffers in the garage. They will probably do even though the heads are on the small side. I've also got some Gresley retracted buffers but unfortunately the heads have flat tops, as they do.

Edited January 27, 2016 by coachmann

[Chimer]

Twenty years ago a well-known historian and modeller wrote of the huge variety of coach kit offerings then available to the 4mm modeller. In those days he was of course referring to the "railway modeller".  The RTR companies still do not offer the variety and range which is necessary for historical authenticity, and yet someone said "nothing needs to be built today". That is certainly not true of the steam-era, thank goodness, as it remains one area where the individual can still make a difference if he is prepared to build things.

 

As for plastic kits, children could build them. I put together a Massey Ferguson tractor back in the 1950's....As easy as a jigsaw. Sure there have been horror-kits but it obviously needs to be pointed out that creating a whitemetal kit was and still is cheaper than plastic injection molding. Etching is even less expensive. Without these beginnings the model railway hobby would be slim indeed today. Triang and Triang-Hornby were aimed at the toy market, not the model railway hobby. If people think today's RTR is flippin marvelous, it is. But they have the modellers of old to thank for that, not the players of  trainsets-across-the-carpet.

 

But didn't the modellers of old play with trainsets-across-the-carpet first?  So we have Chad Valley, Tri-ang etc to thank for them getting into the hobby in the first place, after which their grown-up efforts with kits and bits forced the manufacturers to up their game ...... a virtuous circle of things getting better, which perhaps needs to be unwound occasionally (Hornby Railroad?) to recreate an more-affordable, not-so-breakable entry point for youngsters?

 

Changing tack, there are so many different ways to get enjoyment from the hobby.  As I have often said, I know I am rubbish at anything remotely fiddly or precise, to the extent that a neatly soldered dropper or a half-decent completed Metcalfe kit gives me all the creative modelling satisfaction I require - so my stock is and will continue to be RTR.  My current layout is basically a trainset with a bit of scenery (but not on the carpet) and the last great project remains a vague idea hovering somewhere in the future.  But I seem to have a bit of a knack for knocking up wiring diagrams and little track plans that people who have introduced themselves on here as beginners or returners seem able to understand, when they haven't grasped the meaning of what others have told them, perhaps because said others haven't been able to put themselves back in the beginner's shoes.  I get enjoyment from trying to do this, and much satisfaction if I get a little "thanks" back.  So as with most things, it's different strokes for different folks.

 

And I love RM debates, and learn a lot from them (and imho you can start a sentence with a conjunction).  But I don't enjoy reading posts when people start shouting at each other, though, especially when the arguments are repetitive and essentially circular - better RTP 00 points, anyone?  Thankfully rare on this thread (until the last couple of days  ).

 

Peace to all

 

Chris

Edited January 27, 2016 by Chimer

[Anglian]

One of the things I like about modelling railways is you can, to a degree, choose your specialism and if you have or can develop the skills, then you can realise it. For me I'll always be more capable at 'scenery' than making stock and I'll even admit to be relatively heathen about precise details of rolling stock. That's not to write that I don't appreciate it when others get it right. However, for me the whole has to look convincing. I'll forgive a missing detail to a locomotive simply because I don't know any better but because I observe the natural world everyday I'm painfully aware of an unnatural looking landscape or items placed within in that are visually incongruous.

 

I suppose taken at an extreme angle there is a potentially soul-searching question for each modeller to address: which is better or worse: perfect rolling stock in a 'compromised' landscape, or less than accurate rolling stock moving through a plausible historical scene? I think the answer will be 'it depends,' and there are an awful lot of both balancing and conflicting stages between either end of that spectrum. But it's defining those parameters that can be both interesting and torturous to the individual.

[Focalplane]

Well, Chimer, I am certainly in tune with your comment!  I have monitored this recent discussion from afar (southern France but the distance is actually not so important as my disdain to get involved in what I think is a rather trite and circular argument).  So what I have I been doing instead of engaging in this "discussion".  Simply getting on with what I have worked most of my life to achieve - serious modelling as a retiree.  Other than Tony W's photos of a rather sad white metal kit I haven't seen any evidence of modelling for quite some time.  Shame on the lot of you is what I would like to say.  And there it is, it is written.  I know many of you have done a lot more modelling in your lives than I have and I look up to many of you as role models, but, for heaven's sake, let's move on!

 

I couldn't really care less about most of what has been written over the past week.  Simply put, I have struggled with and mastered, a Midland Railway Centre (ex-Metalsmith) turntable kit and when I finally connected it all up today  (including the wonderful DCC option) it worked first time, quietly, efficiently and dare I say it, spectacularly.  I applied some old skills, learned new ones (joining the thermoplastic drive with a hot blade) and feel quite pleased with myself but more than impressed with the skills of the kit designer himself, Dave Smith, with whom I have had several amiable and fruitful long distance calls.  Worth every centime.

 

 

Also, Chimer, Ernest Hemingway often began his sentences with a conjunction.  And I would agree with him!

[polybear]

 

I'm amazed at how popular all the DVDs were. The first Right Tracks on loco kit construction just flew out (so much so that I had to get up before the birds one morning to collect a further box prior to an Ally Pally show). The others did as well - the right time, the right people and the right production team. Something that'll never happen again. 

Hi Tony,

I've actually been re-watching the two Loco Construction DVD's over the past couple of days - worth every penny.

I recall you mentioning a planned(?) chassis construction DVD a couple of pages ago, which never materialised.  I think such a DVD would be a great asset, especially if it were to cater for the various construction choices, such as:

Rigid

3-Point Suspension

CSB's

Sprung Hornblocks

Split Frame

 

Perhaps also a DVD dedicated to the art of soldering would be useful, though I appreciate that the existing Right Track DVD's do help a great deal in this respect.

Sadly I suspect that, with the demise of Activity Media these will probably never materialise

 

Brian

[t-b-g]

Hi Tony,

I've actually been re-watching the two Loco Construction DVD's over the past couple of days - worth every penny.

I recall you mentioning a planned(?) chassis construction DVD a couple of pages ago, which never materialised.  I think such a DVD would be a great asset, especially if it were to cater for the various construction choices, such as:

Rigid

3-Point Suspension

CSB's

Sprung Hornblocks

Split Frame

 

Perhaps also a DVD dedicated to the art of soldering would be useful, though I appreciate that the existing Right Track DVD's do help a great deal in this respect.

Sadly I suspect that, with the demise of Activity Media these will probably never materialise

 

Brian

 

Now that would be worth seeing! Tony Wright shows how to build a CSB mechanism. Perhaps he could show us his preferred method of fitting DCC for good measure.

 

Sorry. That really is very tongue in cheek. I just couldn't resist.

 

Tony G

[polybear]

Sorry - should've mentioned that several presenters/modellers may be the order of the day.... 

[Headstock]

 isn't enjoyment the principal reason for railway modelling? 

 

Enjoyment, where's the fun in that?

[Tony Wright]

Now that would be worth seeing! Tony Wright shows how to build a CSB mechanism. Perhaps he could show us his preferred method of fitting DCC for good measure.

 

Sorry. That really is very tongue in cheek. I just couldn't resist.

 

Tony G

What's a CSB mechanism? Honestly, I don't know. Is it compensated sprung beam? 

 

As I posted, the Right Track series has had its day. Chris and Wendy have taken a well-earned retirement and just about everything has been done. 

 

Picking up Brian's point, though, would a DVD dedicated to just chassis making be viable? Obviously, the fancy stuff would be left to others but who knows? Because the RTR chassis have improved so much, the automatic replacement is now not necessary. However, there are still those out there who might like to learn how to build successful chassis (in 4mm, or other scales?). 

 

Would you be interested in being part of it, Tony? If it were viable, who else would be good to show the more complex chassis-making methods? 

 

Anyone out there interested in buying a full-length chassis-making DVD?

 

I could ask manufacturers about possible sponsorship. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Headstock]

That's not what I had in mind. It's more that I was trying to understand which models you were suggesting were inaccurate. I'm guessing that these would be the old Bachmann Thompsons and the Hornby corridor  Gresleys?

 

More than a suggestion, if a popular manufacturer was to produce a locomotive as inaccurate as the Gresley carriages the internet would be rocked by the outcry.

 

One of the things I like about modelling railways is you can, to a degree, choose your specialism and if you have or can develop the skills, then you can realise it. For me I'll always be more capable at 'scenery' than making stock and I'll even admit to be relatively heathen about precise details of rolling stock. That's not to write that I don't appreciate it when others get it right. However, for me the whole has to look convincing. I'll forgive a missing detail to a locomotive simply because I don't know any better but because I observe the natural world everyday I'm painfully aware of an unnatural looking landscape or items placed within in that are visually incongruous.

 

I suppose taken at an extreme angle there is a potentially soul-searching question for each modeller to address: which is better or worse: perfect rolling stock in a 'compromised' landscape, or less than accurate rolling stock moving through a plausible historical scene? I think the answer will be 'it depends,' and there are an awful lot of both balancing and conflicting stages between either end of that spectrum. But it's defining those parameters that can be both interesting and torturous to the individual.

 

You of course make a fair point, however, as brilliant as the scenery aspects of  the hobby is, it is not unique to model railways. It can also be appreciated in other modelling genre that are still the bastions of kit building (military modelling as an example).  On the other hand, rolling stock is unique to railway modelling. I have two thoughts. Despite what is often said, a realistic model railway has to involve some amount of kit building. The reason being that what is available RTR, is not representative of the real railway and probably never will be. My second thought is that with the decline of kit building, model railways are increasingly becoming clones of one another. For example, I find it difficult to justify the cost of many model railway exhibitions, when I can view the same products at my local model shop for free.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Headstock

[Jon4470]

I'd for one would be interested in a chassis DVD - especially if it included something about how to scratch build or modify chassis. Help about how to successfully mark out, cut out and drill holes in sheet metal - so that the end result is true and square - would be gratefully received

 

Jon

[sp1]

What's a CSB mechanism? Honestly, I don't know. Is it compensated sprung beam?

 

As I posted, the Right Track series has had its day. Chris and Wendy have taken a well-earned retirement and just about everything has been done.

 

Picking up Brian's point, though, would a DVD dedicated to just chassis making be viable? Obviously, the fancy stuff would be left to others but who knows? Because the RTR chassis have improved so much, the automatic replacement is now not necessary. However, there are still those out there who might like to learn how to build successful chassis (in 4mm, or other scales?).

 

Would you be interested in being part of it, Tony? If it were viable, who else would be good to show the more complex chassis-making methods?

 

Anyone out there interested in buying a full-length chassis DVD?

 

I could ask manufacturers about possible sponsorship.

Yes please!