Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

22 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Morning Andrew,

 

The CWN for 1958 shows the Hatfield-Dunstable trains as ‘Twin BS(6)-SL(7)’ which implies a declassified D.210 to me and this is born out by the photos you put on my workbench thread here.

 

Are you saying that these coaches did, in fact, have First Class at this stage? Or maybe that it was reinstated post war, and then declassified again later - maybe when they were cascaded following the introduction of the Mark 1 non corridor stock?

 

Andy

Hi Andy and all

 

Could the dia 210s in the London area remained all third as many services in the inner suburban area never had their first class restored after the war on all four railways and LT.

[Hollar]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

For those who didn't see my review of the Isinglass 3D-printed pigeon van in BRM, a selection of pictures....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this, Tony, very useful.  Funnily enough our resin flakes are pretty well identical.  I've not fitted it yet because I'm thinking of putting in a rudimentary interior, but the roof looks as though it will need some work to make it fit perfectly.

 

Tone

[Clem]

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy and all

 

Could the dia 210s in the London area remained all third as many services in the inner suburban area never had their first class restored after the war on all four railways and LT.

Sounds reasonable. But if that's the case, it would be nice to know which ones were allocated there. :-)  . I've always had a soft spot for this diagram.

[Headstock]

32 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Morning Andrew,

 

The CWN for 1958 shows the Hatfield-Dunstable trains as ‘Twin BS(6)-SL(7)’ which implies a declassified D.210 to me and this is born out by the photos you put on my workbench thread here.

 

Are you saying that these coaches did, in fact, have First Class at this stage? Or maybe that it was reinstated post war, and then declassified again later - maybe when they were cascaded following the introduction of the Mark 1 non corridor stock?

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I'm not saying anything about the Hatfield - Dunstable service in 1958 (though I am aware of it) as I haven't researched it. 1958 is far to late for me, as it is beyond the terrible destruction of the sets, a period I have no interest in modeling, though some other people's efforts in this period can produce some interesting stuff.

 

I prefer to see them still in all their glory and running as intended by their designers. Elegant carriages, that providing first and third (not second) class accommodation, as part of dedicated five carriage articulated sets, comprising two twins and a third. The Hatfield service looks like bottom of the barrel stuff, certainly not the services these carriages were originally built for, I'm sure you can follow their decline by studying the relevant CWN's.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Hi Andy, Looking at photos of the E. Mids, I'm fairly certain the firsts were re-instated on the D210s. For example, if you look at this 1956 shot at Sutton-in-Ashfield, you can clearly see the '1's on the first class section. It could be that in some cases they weren't restored but the examples I've seen where it can be distinguished, have the firsts labelled on the doors as in this photo.

 

 

Good morning Clem,

 

I particularly like that photo, though there is always a twinge of sadness seeing a lone twin, slumming it with a wannabe carriage. Imagine the William Blake inspired vision of two twins and between them, a big 60' GC matchboard ten compartment third, poetry in motion? And talk about the right locomotive, on the right train, in the right location, rule one I think.

[MikeTrice]

On 17/06/2020 at 13:39, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Paul,

 

Having just been in email correspondence with Mike, he's going to post on here as to whether he'll offer the V2 bodies for sale.

 

For what it's worth (and I admit to knowing nothing of the practicalities of the 3D-printing), I hope he does. They really are brilliant, fit the Comet chassis with just a little bit of modification and will result in a top model. 

 

The old Bachmann V2 body is just not worth bothering with, and as for the original split chassis....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Started a new post explaining all:

 

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Andy,

 

I'm not saying anything about the Hatfield - Dunstable service in 1958 (though I am aware of it) as I haven't researched it. 1958 is far to late for me, as it is beyond the terrible destruction of the sets, a period I have no interest in modeling, though some other people's efforts in this period can produce some interesting stuff.

 

I prefer to see them still in all their glory and running as intended by their designers. Elegant carriages, that providing first and third (not second) class accommodation, as part of dedicated five carriage articulated sets, comprising two twins and a third. The Hatfield service looks like bottom of the barrel stuff, certainly not the services these carriages were originally built for, I'm sure you can follow their decline by studying the relevant CWN's.

Thanks Andrew.  I agree that they looked best in teak and fantastic on KX outer suburban services with an Ivatt Atlantic. I have now obtained a Masterclass Models version (as recommended by you and JW) which I intend to finish in teak for late ‘40s KX outer suburban services. I don’t have any suburban CWNs prior to 1958 which is why I was asking about the FC declassification but these services had FC, so I will assume that the D.210s would have had FC in this period.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy and all

 

Could the dia 210s in the London area remained all third as many services in the inner suburban area never had their first class restored after the war on all four railways and LT.

Hi Clive,

 

I’m guessing as I don't have the relevant CWNs but I suspect that D.210s were mainly used on outer suburban services and that FC was reinstated post war and then removed again after the mark 1s displaced the Gresley and Thompsons on these services. I think inner suburban stuff pre mark 1 was nearly all quad arts.

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

Just put on Mike Trice's thread about his new V2 body......................

 

 

 

 

Just a few minor mods necessary to get a perfect fit.

 

 

A perfect match? 

 

This will be the type of tender I'll be using - one for a SE Finecast K3. 

 

 

[grahame]

I've done very little modelling over the last couple of weeks, mostly contemplative and in the head. However, I've started some research on a potential scratch-build of a two car SR de-icing unit (that was formed from two 4LAV driving motor coaches) and some stuff about N/2mm scale London buses for an article. To illustrate it I've taken a few snaps. Here's a couple, an AEC Routemaster (a BHE white metal kit) and a Leyland Fleetline DMS (converted from a Cars Workshop KMB version) at a bus stop that might be of interest. It was just quickly and roughly mocked-up using unfinished building models and a bit of cardboard for the road:

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

53 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Andrew.  I agree that they looked best in teak and fantastic on KX outer suburban services with an Ivatt Atlantic. I have now obtained a Masterclass Models version (as recommended by you and JW) which I intend to finish in teak for late ‘40s KX outer suburban services. I don’t have any suburban CWNs prior to 1958 which is why I was asking about the FC declassification but these services had FC, so I will assume that the D.210s would have had FC in this period.

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I'm afraid I can't help you much with KX outer suburban services, all my research has been based around the Nottingham area. All that Harris has to say is that they were built for stopping services on the GN mainline in Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire. That of course was back in LNER days. Isinglass reports that, from 1942 third class was no longer shown on third class compartments of the twins and the five* sets in the Nottinghamshire area were downgraded to third class. Is he implying that this downgrading never happened to the rest? 

 

It's a pity that you don't have any CWN's, as they will tell you straight away if they are all third or first / third, as they do with the post war Nottingham sets. CWN's were designed to format trains around the seating requirements (and other services) of passengers in terms of numbers and class, they don't lie. They can't say they are first class seats and the passengers to then tun up and they are not. This would require a complete re-formatting of the formation to include new carriages with first class accomodation, this never happened. Have you checked any GN CWN's to see if anything is recorded in them? There is a 1950 summer one I think. The GN and East coast books are not as awesomely detailed and user friendly as the Western division ones, so it may take you some time to hunt them down, if they are there.

 

* Literally five sets, not five carriages in a set.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Headstock
clarify a point.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Just put on Mike Trice's thread about his new V2 body......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a few minor mods necessary to get a perfect fit.

 

 

A perfect match? 

 

This will be the type of tender I'll be using - one for a SE Finecast K3. 

 

 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I have applied for a body too, it looks every inch a V2. I shall also be using the same type of tender. Building things will never die, with all the current creativity erupting via the forum.

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Andy,

 

I'm afraid I can't help you much with KX outer suburban services, all my research has been based around the Nottingham area. All that Harris has to say is that they were built for stopping services on the GN mainline in Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire. That of course was back in LNER days. Isinglass reports that, from 1942 third class was no longer shown on third class compartments of the twins and the five* sets in the Nottinghamshire area were downgraded to third class. Is he implying that this downgrading never happened to the rest? 

 

It's a pity that you don't have any CWN's, as they will tell you straight away if they are all third or first / third, as they do with the post war Nottingham sets. CWN's were designed to format trains around the seating requirements (and other services) of passengers in terms of numbers and class, they don't lie. They can't say they are first class seats and the passengers to then tun up and they are not. This would require a complete re-formatting of the formation to include new carriages with first class accomodation, this never happened. Have you checked any GN CWN's to see if anything is recorded in them? There is a 1950 summer one I think. The GN and East coast books are not as awesomely detailed and user friendly as the Western division ones, so it may take you some time to hunt them down, if they are there.

 

* Literally five sets, not five carriages in a set.

I agree about CWNs and I have lots of the earlier ECML and GN mainline ones which detail capacity as you state (all from the Robert Carroll website - many thanks Robert). Unfortunately I don't have the suburban equivalents before 1958.

[MikeTrice]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I have applied for a body too, it looks every inch a V2. I shall also be using the same type of tender. Building things will never die, with all the current creativity erupting via the forum.

I just hope reality lives up to the hype

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

I agree about CWNs and I have lots of the earlier ECML and GN mainline ones which detail capacity as you state (all from the Robert Carroll website - many thanks Robert). Unfortunately I don't have the suburban equivalents before 1958.

 

Good evening Andy,

 

I think I have found two so far, in the 1951 Eastern (GN mainline) operating area CWN's. 

 

Edited to add, two more found.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Headstock
two more found

[Headstock]

53 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

I just hope reality lives up to the hype

 

No fears.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

I just hope reality lives up to the hype

I just hope the hype lives up to the reality!

 

It really is an excellent V2 body, Mike.

 

Many thanks for giving me (literally) the opportunity to test it. I hope to have it all finished before too long.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

Away from D.210s, I’ve been finishing off my D.307 Tourist Twin. This you may remember was the subject of some debate 100(ish)  pages ago about whether it should have domed or straight ends to the roofs. The conclusion, sadly, is that it should almost certainly have straight ends, but as the kit came with domed ends and I already have several straight ended plywood twins (which are otherwise identical in model form), I decided to keep this with domed ends as a might/ should have been (as this is consistent with the drawing but not the photographic evidence). 

 

Here is the finished twin.

 

The interior was built from Southern Pride tables and Isinglass open seating (which Andrew has just released). The seats look very good to my eyes. They may be slightly over scale as I ended up with an almost non existent corridor down the centre of the coach. Alternatively it may be the thickness of the sides and side fixings which push the interior towards the centre. Either way, it doesn’t show with the body on and I’m pleased with the result.

 

[w124bob]

Regarding the LNER pigeon brake, can you post up which issue the review appeared in please and I assume the extra bits came from Wizard/51L. My club is out of bounds at present so I'm missing magazines, and I'm the librarian!

Missed out on the old Chivers Finelines kit, so I'm glad this is available. 

Found the issue and ordered a copy!

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by w124bob
Added info

[Erichill16]

On 07/06/2020 at 14:55, Headstock said:

The bad weather is keeping me out of the garden again. No worries, another set of steel carriers have now exited the paint shop. A pairing of an LMS 20 ton and LNER 21 ton Double bolster wagons. I will have to start making up some couplings soon.

I like the finish on your wagons and I’m particularly interested in the wooden effects and wondered if you could tell us what you used. Enamels acrylics powders paint numbers etc. In your own time of course. I never seem to get the wood look and think it’s probably that I don’t use enough gray.

thanks in anticipation,

Robert

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I agree about CWNs and I have lots of the earlier ECML and GN mainline ones which detail capacity as you state (all from the Robert Carroll website - many thanks Robert). Unfortunately I don't have the suburban equivalents before 1958.

 

Evening  Andy,

 

there you go, one set, comprised of two twins, displaying their composite nature. The number of compartments, seats, percentage of first to third and weight match dia 210 perfectly. The info is from the 1951 the summer timetable CWN's, for the GN mainline (Eastern Area). No evidence is evident of the abandonment of first class in the post war period on these carriages. There are other services also utilising the same twins.

 

An important note as regards to the Suburban CWN's. The term applies to a type of service, not a type of carriage. The dia 210's were non gangway articulated stock, not 'suburban stock'. They would have worked variety of services, so it is not surprising that they are found in other CWN's beyond that pertaining to suburban services only. If you are looking for 'suburban carriages', you will miss a trick.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Headstock

[Headstock]

4 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

I like the finish on your wagons and I’m particularly interested in the wooden effects and wondered if you could tell us what you used. Enamels acrylics powders paint numbers etc. In your own time of course. I never seem to get the wood look and think it’s probably that I don’t use enough gray.

thanks in anticipation,

Robert

 

Good evening Robert,

 

I will post something as you request. Not right away, as I am suffering from post fatigue and need a rest.

[Erichill16]

9 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Robert,

 

I will post something as you request. Not right away, as I am suffering from post fatigue and need a rest.

Thanks Andrew,

As I said in your own time. I’m suffering from a different type of fatigue, I’m refurbishing an old loco and at every step there appears to be something in the way. I’m ready to put transfers on it and having three sheets of transfers I thought there should be plenty of what I need. Wrong, no number 5s. Damm I wish I’d checked earlier.

Regards Robert

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, w124bob said:

Regarding the LNER pigeon brake, can you post up which issue the review appeared in please and I assume the extra bits came from Wizard/51L. My club is out of bounds at present so I'm missing magazines, and I'm the librarian!

Missed out on the old Chivers Finelines kit, so I'm glad this is available. 

Found the issue and ordered a copy!

 

 

 

I'm not sure where the etched bits came from, I'm afraid.

 

I have masses of spares boxes, accumulated over the years, and the etched 'W' irons came from those.

 

I'm pretty sure the battery boxes came from Comet, though.

 

I hope you find my article useful. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Away from D.210s, I’ve been finishing off my D.307 Tourist Twin. This you may remember was the subject of some debate 100(ish)  pages ago about whether it should have domed or straight ends to the roofs. The conclusion, sadly, is that it should almost certainly have straight ends, but as the kit came with domed ends and I already have several straight ended plywood twins (which are otherwise identical in model form), I decided to keep this with domed ends as a might/ should have been (as this is consistent with the drawing but not the photographic evidence). 

 

Here is the finished twin.

 

The interior was built from Southern Pride tables and Isinglass open seating (which Andrew has just released). The seats look very good to my eyes. They may be slightly over scale as I ended up with an almost non existent corridor down the centre of the coach. Alternatively it may be the thickness of the sides and side fixings which push the interior towards the centre. Either way, it doesn’t show with the body on and I’m pleased with the result.

 

Good evening Andy,

 

I've found on most of my open carriages (where the body/roof comes off, rather than just the roof) that the central passage between the seats becomes very narrow.

 

That said, as you've observed, with the body/roof in place, that narrowness is invisible.

 

The coaches look fine, and I'd leave the roofs as they are as well.........

 

Regards,

 

Tony.