Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Interesting discussion over the Heljan Newton Chambers car transporters. Personally I think it's a brave but welcome attempt to model an unusual and quite specialised prototype. I think the pricing is quite reasonable given where other new products sit, but it is admittedly quite an expense for a full train. I would have bought them if they'd been available when I was forming up trains for Gresley Jn, but instead I went for the earlier version of the same train, The Car Sleeper Limited, shown here photographed by Tony on Little Bytham (Tony, I hope its OK to use the photo - I will remove if there's an issue).

 

 

Even in this case, I waited until Hornby were flogging off their long wheelbase CCTs for just over a tenner each!

 

With Bachmann producing the same Newton Chambers coaches imminently, I suspect there will be a lot of these in bargain bins in the not too distant future. If they get really cheap, I may yet be tempted! 

 

What I would really like is the car carrying vans introduced in 1957 to replace the CCTs. They were bogied vans rebuilt from redundant ex GE 54' eliptical roof coaching stock (p215 of Banks and Carter). It's a shame that neither Bachmann or Heljan produced these instead of copying each other.

 

Andy

Good afternoon Andy,

 

I don't mind at all your posting my picture of your train; in fact, I'm delighted.

 

I agree with you in that it's a pity one manufacturer didn't produce the earlier bogie CCT rebuilds (those with very prominent lettering), because it would have made them perfect for LB's time depiction. That said, and invoking Rule 1, I'll run the Newton Chambers carriers (for no other reason that I remember seeing them more than I do the earlier types). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, 60526 said:

 

I can't match the quality of your photos,  but here's 54 coming south. Looks clean, double chimney but without smoke deflectors.

 

York's Sugar Palm

 

Oh, the sun is around to the west so casts a shadow over the front of 5905 hauling quads? A stopper on the up main.

 

Again, the sun is in the wrong direction, from the south this time, D208, on the Scotch Goods?

 

Thanks Charlie,

 

Though the steam loco pictures are not of my taking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

6 hours ago, micklner said:

What do the actual ends on the Car Carriers look like ?. Personally I have no idea.

Try this: https://flic.kr/p/6T75af

[Tony Wright]

8 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Try this: https://flic.kr/p/6T75af

Thanks for that, Robert.

 

It's astonishing how shabby the carriers were allowed to get in blue/grey. Every shot I've seen of them in maroon shows them clean. I assume they always worked with passenger-carrying carriages?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

On 03/08/2023 at 08:07, Tony Wright said:

A couple or so more points regarding the 'Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier'............

 

Most of the prototype photographs I have of it show the southbound service, with the passenger accommodation at the rear (four Mk.1s, including a catering car). Does anyone know what these were, please (I don't have the relevant CWNs for the period)? Secondly, did they carry destination boards? 

 

Finally, if £200.00 is the price for a set of three of the Heljan models, what does a Southern Pride kit of one cost, please (if still available)?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

Any particular year?  This is the down train in the summer of 1963:

[robertcwp]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that, Robert.

 

It's astonishing how shabby the carriers were allowed to get in blue/grey. Every shot I've seen of them in maroon shows them clean. I assume they always worked with passenger-carrying carriages?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I'm not sure but I can only recall seeing in-service photos of them with passenger stock other than when being loaded/unloaded or stabled.

[robertcwp]

And the up train in 1963:

[grob1234]

On 03/08/2023 at 21:20, micklner said:

Again how far do we go in detail on models, and does that justify the price being asked ?.

Detailed ends are stretching it at about £70 per coach, being realistic you can only really see the Rear end of One Coach as it goes away from you. The rest of the  "Ends" are all hidden from view including the front one behind the Tender. They are even hidden in the pretty box !!.

 

 

You know what Mick, I don't always agree with what you say, but in this case I do think you have a point.

 

In my opinion, £70 for a wagon like this is a lot of money. 

 

You are of course right to observe that most of the end detail is obscured when the train is close coupled. So why is the detail there?

 

Well, I reckon it's all to do with margins. When they complete the CAD work and make the 3d test prints, they might as well do all the detail, it'll cost them very little at this stage to incorporate. They can then market the wagons as 'premium' products and charge accordingly, therefore making more profit. The cost of the detailed versus plain ends would be not much I'm guessing at manufacture, but probably at least £10 or £15 in terms of additional margin during sale.

 

Just my 10p, I'm no expert, clearly!

[rowanj]

The 1963 WTT is interesting, as I hadn't realized that 1car was detached at Newcastle. 5 running North, and dropping the FK would suit my layout, (and save a bit of cash, too). 8 coach trains are all I can comfortably accommodate.

When spotting at Central, there always seemed to be  a car carrier stabled near the parcels at the East end of the station. Though, in my memory of 60 years ago, I remember more than 1, but rather a rake, I suppose  that it could have been just a single coach, though it may have been a pair for the Up and Down services. And a spare?

The idea of putting your car on a train to get from Newcastle to Edinburgh ,120 miles, would be ludicrous today. Even then, it would appear odd. Didn't the  service in earlier years  go to Perth? 1955 is the usually quoted date for the start of the service.

Finally,did they really, as note d suggests, serve meals at all seats, including the FK and BSK?

Edited August 5, 2023 by rowanj

[Iain.d]

Back in April I completed the build of a Comet Models LMS D1932 Brake Composite Corridor kit, all I needed to do was the painting.

 

 

Due to poor availability/quality of HMRS lining transfers I have been teaching myself to use a bow pen for lining, with the last eight or nine carriages I’ve built being completed this way. Despite reference to Ian Rathbone’s and Geoff Haynes’ books on painting and lining, there was obviously something I wasn’t getting, as while I could generally get one side of the carriage successfully lined invariably the other side was a disaster resulting in me stripping it back to the brass and respraying. I couldn’t see what I was getting wrong – it’s the same paint (but I tried others), same pen (a second hand Haff), same environment (but I tried others), same day (but obviously not always), same frame of mind (generally…) and after all it’s only a couple of straight lines on a flat surface; how hard should it be?

 

Without wanting to be the bad workman who always blames his tools, I assessed the problem was with the pen, it was the only constant. But I had no idea what a ‘honed’ pen should really look like or whether mine was right, albeit the tips displayed some evidence of being modified/filed/smoothed. In conversation with a professional painter about the issues I was having, he offered to give my pen the once over and with that I duly dispatched it off to him.  His verdict was that ‘it’s a bit rough, I’ll see what I can do’, anyway, it arrived back with me a couple of weeks ago, I had a try, oh my it was like going from a crayon to a fountain pen!  A few tips and bit more advice from the painter and I was keen to try it out on the BCK.

 

 

The corridor side is slightly better than the compartment side but I’m super pleased. The lines are slightly thicker (intentionally) than they should be, so as the carriage matches the vehicle it will be adjacent to in the rake – not that the thickness is overly noticeable. On my test pieces I was able to match the line thickness the professional provided to me as examples of what he was able to do with my pen. This has given me the confidence to look at doing a pre-grouping carriage in the near future which will come with a few complexities beyond BR maroon with straight black and yellow lines.

 

 

This carriage will form the end vehicle of Manchester portion of a Pines Express formation I’ve now completed. I only realised the other day that these carriages were fitted with oval buffers, not round ones as provided in the kit, so I’ll look to change them out when the mood takes me.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Edited August 5, 2023 by Iain.d
Spelling

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, rowanj said:

The 1963 WTT is interesting, as I hadn't realized that 1car was detached at Newcastle. 5 running North, and dropping the FK would suit my layout, (and save a bit of cash, too).

When spotting at Central, there always seemed to be  a car carrier stabled near the parcels at the East end of the station. Though, in my memory of 0 years ago, I remember more than 1, but rather a rake, I suppose  that it was just an odd coach, though it may have been a pair for the Up and Down services. And a spare?

The idea of putting your car on a train to get from Newcastle to Edinburgh ,120 miles, would be ludicrous today. Even then, it would appear odd. Didn't the  service in earlier years  go to Perth?

Good morning John,

 

I think it was extended to Perth later on. There's a shot of a racehorse Deltic crossing the Forth Bridge heading south hauling the car carriers in The Deltics A Symposium, by Cecil J. Allen, G.F. Fiennes, Roger Ford, B.A. Haresnape and Brian Perrin, Ian Allan, 1972/'77. The date is the 8th of August 1968, and the Deltic is in two-tone green (with full yellow ends). The visible carrier is in blue/grey. 

 

As the demand for the service on the ECML declined, the carriers could be seen as far west as Newton Abbot and also on the WCML. What there final workings were, I don't know, but I doubt if the trains were comprised of six car carriers and four passenger cars. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Any particular year?  This is the down train in the summer of 1963:

Good morning Robert,

 

Many thanks.

 

I assume the formation and the timings were the same as when the Newton Chambers carriers were introduced in 1961? 

 

It would appear that by 1963, haulage had been taken over by diesels rather than steam. 

 

I've found a shot on the internet showing the A1/1 hauling the northbound service (at York, probably in 1962) but, prior to '63, A3s and A4s seemed most common. I assume Peppercorn's Pacifics hauled it as well?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Robert,

 

Many thanks.

 

I assume the formation and the timings were the same as when the Newton Chambers carriers were introduced in 1961? 

 

It would appear that by 1963, haulage had been taken over by diesels rather than steam. 

 

I've found a shot on the internet showing the A1/1 hauling the northbound service (at York, probably in 1962) but, prior to '63, A3s and A4s seemed most common. I assume Peppercorn's Pacifics hauled it as well?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The summer 1961 book still shows CCTs. I don't have summer 1962.

[Tony Wright]

59 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

The summer 1961 book still shows CCTs. I don't have summer 1962.

Thanks Robert,

 

Interestingly, the brake is a BSK, not (by 1963) a BSO.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Mike 84C]

I am being a little contentious here but having just finished Tim Hillier-Graves book about Edward Thompson I have to say how much I enjoyed it . I knew nothing of the man except who he was and what he did , also the alleged background to his destruction of Gresleys legacy. 

   I believe he was a pragmatic engineer who reacted to a situation, in a period of great financial restraint  and did the best job he thought possible with what he had.  Dick Hardy is quoted several times in THG's book and Dick Hardy was a man with very good judgement of most things railway. I speak with experience of DH, he was a friend and I worked with men who knew him as a "boss"

   I can also see traits in ET that relate to my own parents and grandparents. And although we were not sent away to public school our upbringing was quite strict and in many ways Victorian, military, do as you are told, do not question my authority, be quiet, think before you speak and say something worth saying.  I expect others can relate too that! 

   I fully realise that THG is putting events and information as he sees it, all I say is read his book. And  I thank THG for taking the time to write about Edward Thompson.

[john new]

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that, Robert.

 

It's astonishing how shabby the carriers were allowed to get in blue/grey. Every shot I've seen of them in maroon shows them clean. I assume they always worked with passenger-carrying carriages?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Was that one of those we can discourage public use by making them unattractive for punters actions? Another similar dodge back then was make the timings not fit around pax needs for going onwards etc. Once usage falls off next step is say the service in question is unwanted and kill it; what you wanted to do in the first place.

[robertcwp]

10 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

I am being a little contentious here but having just finished Tim Hillier-Graves book about Edward Thompson I have to say how much I enjoyed it . I knew nothing of the man except who he was and what he did , also the alleged background to his destruction of Gresleys legacy. 

   I believe he was a pragmatic engineer who reacted to a situation, in a period of great financial restraint  and did the best job he thought possible with what he had.  Dick Hardy is quoted several times in THG's book and Dick Hardy was a man with very good judgement of most things railway. I speak with experience of DH, he was a friend and I worked with men who knew him as a "boss"

   I can also see traits in ET that relate to my own parents and grandparents. And although we were not sent away to public school our upbringing was quite strict and in many ways Victorian, military, do as you are told, do not question my authority, be quiet, think before you speak and say something worth saying.  I expect others can relate too that! 

   I fully realise that THG is putting events and information as he sees it, all I say is read his book. And  I thank THG for taking the time to write about Edward Thompson.

It's an excellent book. Read it alongside his books on Gresley and Peppercorn, which are equally good.

Edited August 5, 2023 by robertcwp
Typo.

[robertcwp]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Robert,

 

Interestingly, the brake is a BSK, not (by 1963) a BSO.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

After summer 1961, the next ECML book I have is winter 1962-3 and it had changed to a BSO by then.

[Tony Wright]

I've looked through hundreds of pictures, but can only find this 'snippet' of the earlier bogie car carriers...........

 

 

It's (obviously) to the right of OWEN TUDOR, in one of Doncaster's south-end bays.

 

I'd say it was around 1961 (though the A2/3 carries no electric warning flashes). Was there a car-carrying service to Doncaster? I rather doubt it, especially as the carrier appears to be coupled to an ordinary van. Perhaps, with the introduction of the Newton Chambers car carriers, the earlier types would then just have been used for general traffic? 

 

Any thoughts appreciated. 

[Tony Wright]

A request, please.............

 

 

Will the owner of this form a queue and claim it, please?

 

Seriously, I've been doing some sorting out of stuff - rummaging through dusty boxes, that sort of thing, and I've come across this..... 

 

I have no idea how long I've had it, nor where or whence it came. There are several things one can say about it, including........

 

1. It's built (quite well, visually) from a London Road Models Ivatt J6 kit in OO Gauge.

 

2. It doesn't run very well.

 

3. It's fitted with a decoder.

 

4. Has someone asked me to fix it?

 

5. Has it come from the estate of a deceased modeller, and I'm supposed to sell it? 

 

I'll not describe much more, to be on the safe side (I'll ask questions of any claimants). 

 

My apologies if I've forgotten how it arrived on my shelf. If it's a model left for me to fix, then there's usually some paperwork present in the box, but there is nothing in this case.

 

Any information will be gratefully received. 

 

Thanks in anticipation.............

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[BMacdermott]

Hello Tony

 

Note to all: Please note that I have attached below a photo from a book. I was often in touch with the photographer, the late Terry Gough, and I am sure he would be happy for it to be shown here - but please respect the copyright.

 

An interesting photo!

 

Brian

[MJI]

The GWR DMU as it is 2 car is coming along well.

 

Been filling gaps with epoxy between roof and sides.

 

Glued cab on.

 

This is it post solder pre glue.

 

[MJI]

3 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Tony

 

Note to all: Please note that I have attached below a photo from a book. I was often in touch with the photographer, the late Terry Gough, and I am sure he would be happy for it to be shown here - but please respect the copyright.

 

An interesting photo!

 

Brian

That is a clear view with running number visible.

[BMacdermott]

Hello again Tony and everyone

 

Looking at notes in The 00 Wishlist Poll Guide 2019, I see that we wrote that one was observed at Worcester Shrub Hill in May 1962 and another at Plymouth in 1963. I have seen the photo of the latter...but can't recall where at present!

 

Brian

[Tony Wright]

46 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello again Tony and everyone

 

Looking at notes in The 00 Wishlist Poll Guide 2019, I see that we wrote that one was observed at Worcester Shrub Hill in May 1962 and another at Plymouth in 1963. I have seen the photo of the latter...but can't recall where at present!

 

Brian

Thanks Brian,

 

It does rather look that, after the introduction of the Newton Chambers car carriers, the earlier bogie CCTs which formed the ASCC just went into ordinary service (not necessarily car-carrying), and could be seen all over the place, no longer in dedicated trains.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.