Wright writes.....

[Craigw]

3 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

The stock list shows a second one on site somewhere. 6039 and 6042.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 6039 is at Dorrigo and 6042 is at Forbes marooned at the site of the old Lachlan Vintage Village.

 

5069 and 3028 were operational at one time and were used on the first train to run on the line before the infighting erupted.

 

They have a superb collection of goods stock and coaching stock too.

 

Craig W

 

[Chas Levin]

33 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Chas

Fortunately there is one operational AD 60 garratt currently and I'm hoping to see it and ride behind it at the end of Sept at the NSW Transport Heritage Festival in Sydney on my way back from our annual British Railway Modellers of Australia Convention in Brisbane the weekend before.

Here it is close to completion in its restoration in Canberra back in 2013 and if I'm not mistaken that's St Enodoc looking rather pensive standing right next to the loco on the left behind the bloke in the high vis top!

 

Andrew

   

Fabulous! That's another item on the agenda for when I one day visit Australia then!

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Woodcock29 said:

not that he has anything in operational condition or ever likely to have.

There's the rub.

[Coach bogie]

7 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Fabulous! That's another item on the agenda for when I one day visit Australia then!

It was top of my list

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[St Enodoc]

50 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Chas

Fortunately there is one operational AD 60 garratt currently and I'm hoping to see it and ride behind it at the end of Sept at the NSW Transport Heritage Festival in Sydney on my way back from our annual British Railway Modellers of Australia Convention in Brisbane the weekend before.

Here it is close to completion in its restoration in Canberra back in 2013 and if I'm not mistaken that's St Enodoc looking rather pensive standing right next to the loco on the left behind the bloke in the high vis top!

 

Andrew

   

I can neither confirm nor deny the identity of the person in question...

Edited August 23, 2023 by St Enodoc

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I wonder what happens when the instigator of it all paases on? He has amassed a huge collection and I do understand there is some form of support group but he told me personally back in 2019 that the local council is  totally 'green' and opposed to any notion of anything burning coal being operated - not that he has anything in operational condition or ever likely to have.

However, I understand the 2 RODs, along with most of the other steam locos including the AD 60 4-8-4 + 4-8-4 garratt have been painted with oil every few years and exhibit minimal surface rust considering the years they've been there. So maybe their condition is not terminal? 

I have seen out-of-ticket locos on UK heritage railways in much worse condition than this.  Compared to the condition of some escapees from Barry scrapyard in the late 1980s, these look are notably more complete and probably restorable (of course the boilers and fireboxes could be completely shot) considering what has been restored to working order in the UK.  Similarly, I guess the climate at Dorrigo is a little drier than being parked next to the Irish Sea for nearly 30 years.

 

[sandra]

On 22/08/2023 at 07:09, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Mike,

 

Though the K's box suggests (even though it can't be seen) a Fowler 2-6-2T was inside, in fact it contained a body-line K's J50. A J50 not, as prescribed, sitting on top of a Hornby Dublo R1 chassis, but on a Comet one with the correct wheelbase. David Rae (to the left in the second picture) was selling it, and George Stevenson (centre left in the second picture) bought it. I should have taken its picture.

 

I should also have taken a picture of what was in the green box which Sandra Orpen brought. That, too, contained a K's loco - in fact, a Brighton K Class 2-6-0. It ran really well, and it's probably the first time a K has run on LB. An opportunity missed, though I'm sure Sandra will bring it again (if I ask nicely) before she converts it to EM.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony,

 

I must firstly say how much I enjoyed my visit to LB on Monday and therefore my thanks to both you and Mo.

 

You mentioned the K class mogul I brought with me. I thought I might post a photo of her and here she is rather precariously balanced on the EM track of my Andover Junction layout.The locomotive is to be converted to EM gauge, have a decoder fitted and be repainted into BR lined livery. I hope to get the number straighter than it is now.

 

The origin of the loco is a K’s kit but the underframe seems to be either scratch built or from another kit. It certainly isn’t K’s.

 

It may be some time before I get round to her as these locomotives were rare visitors to Andover. I do have a photo of one at Battledown flyover having come off the Salisbury line but I imagine that they only got to Andover on specials or troop trains. There were a lot of the latter at Andover because of the proximity to Salisbury plain.

[65179]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Speaking with a friend this morning, our conclusion was that one could build a fairly (even very) accurate layout in OO, say, depicting the ex-GC London extension, just by flashing the credit card and opening boxes. How times change................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Only really with the 1958 blinkers on I think Tony. Such a shame Andrew (Headstock) no longer posts on here, I'm sure he'd have given you an interesting response to that remark!

 

Joking aside, whilst the GC London Extension before the mid-1950s wouldn't be possible with just a chequebook and box opening.  You are quite right that there'd be little missing in your preferred timeframe (a few  coaches/NPCCS, a B16 and one or two of the remaining GN types, LMS vans and some of the more route specific wagons depending on which bit you modelled).

 

Regards,

Simon

[Tony Wright]

36 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Only really with the 1958 blinkers on I think Tony. Such a shame Andrew (Headstock) no longer posts on here, I'm sure he'd have given you an interesting response to that remark!

 

Joking aside, whilst the GC London Extension before the mid-1950s wouldn't be possible with just a chequebook and box opening.  You are quite right that there'd be little missing in your preferred timeframe (a few  coaches/NPCCS, a B16 and one or two of the remaining GN types, LMS vans and some of the more route specific wagons depending on which bit you modelled).

 

Regards,

Simon

Thanks Simon,

 

I was thinking of the later BR period, though before the line was so run-down. 

 

When WMRC built Charwelton (depicting 1956-1962) at the turn of the century, almost everything had to be built (we preferred that, anyway). That meant, of course, we had all the B16 varieties and every other appropriate loco type, as well as just about all the different types of rolling stock (including the ex-'Coronation' articulated FOs for 'The Master Cutler'. With Hornby's promise of the ex-LNER streamlined stock in BR condition, even those will be covered RTR).

 

As for RTR B16s, are they on any manufacturer's radar? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[LaScala]

20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I fear that Dorrigo is a lost cause.

Totally agree.  I took that pic in early 2018 and posted it on an Aussie forum lamenting the wanton dereliction and mentioned it being a southern hemisphere Barry but without hope. 

Predictably, there were Dorrigo apologists shouting me down along the lines of "we should praise the salvation not criticise it''.

I hear more stock has been added whilst genuinely historic locos and countless items of rolling stock disintegrate.  There are ''only'' 75 locomotives, 19 railmotors and 280 carriages and wagons there!  Last steamed in 1987; well one loco.

Their web site looks to be from the dawn of the internet 30 years ago https://www.dsrm.org.au/

This was two years ago

 and this a few months after I was there 5 years ago The two ROD's are seen a few times but particularly at 4:45

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by LaScala

[LaScala]

10 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I wonder what happens when the instigator of it all paases on? He has amassed a huge collection and I do understand there is some form of support group but he told me personally back in 2019 that the local council is  totally 'green' and opposed to any notion of anything burning coal being operated - not that he has anything in operational condition or ever likely to have.

However, I understand the 2 RODs, along with most of the other steam locos including the AD 60 4-8-4 + 4-8-4 garratt have been painted with oil every few years and exhibit minimal surface rust considering the years they've been there. So maybe their condition is not terminal? 

 

A few photos from my 2019 visit to give readers an idea of what is there.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 2019 green excuse does not fly for me.  They have had 30 years to do more than slap sump oil on the locos.

They were in trouble back in 1989 and little has changed except the oxidation.  "Unecessary and unmanageable" 34 years ago.

 

 

[Northmoor]

Dorrigo appears to be just a bigger version of what some parts of some heritage railways look like.  Having some projects underway and a few others awaiting money and available volunteers is completely excusable, but this is what happens when the lead individual, whenever they have any spare funds, never spends it on what they've already got but buys another project.  As you say, there are apologists for these people, but it's analagous to the modelling on this thread; I'm impressed with people who have restored something, not those who've bought something.

 

What is doubly sad about the scale of Dorrigo is that when the scheme is eventually wound up, there is far too much material for the Australian preservation movement - distributed over a vast area as it is - to absorb and plenty of historic items will probably be headed for the smelter.  Many of those Australian designs are beautiful; Victorian-era looking in a British-design-but-not-quite kind of way.

[LaScala]

20 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Dorrigo appears to be just a bigger version of what some parts of some heritage railways look like.  Having some projects underway and a few others awaiting money and available volunteers is completely excusable, but this is what happens when the lead individual, whenever they have any spare funds, never spends it on what they've already got but buys another project.  As you say, there are apologists for these people, but it's analagous to the modelling on this thread; I'm impressed with people who have restored something, not those who've bought something.

 

What is doubly sad about the scale of Dorrigo is that when the scheme is eventually wound up, there is far too much material for the Australian preservation movement - distributed over a vast area as it is - to absorb and plenty of historic items will probably be headed for the smelter.  Many of those Australian designs are beautiful; Victorian-era looking in a British-design-but-not-quite kind of way.

I love this little one.  Pretty much an outside valve version of the Burry Port Avonside GWR pair 2094 & 2095.  If there are ten restorable locos there I would be surprised.

[Andy R]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm happy to report (at least in part) that after any cheques clear, over £2,000.00 will be sent to worthy causes from the recent sales of the EM gauge locos/stock and the OO gauge items (with still a fair bit left to sell). In the main, the EM stuff achieved good prices (Expo North was the right place to take it). 

 

I say 'at least in part' because I've come to the conclusion now (and it's taken me a while) that this hobby is becoming 'de-skilled'. I don't mean that those with skills are having them taken away, but fewer and fewer participants seem actively not prepared to even acquire any! 

 

I'll explain. Nearly half the items I've had for sale have been OO wagons. Many are of some considerable age, some built from early plastic kits (some, even earlier, from wood), but at least 50%, modified RTR items from the likes of Trix, Mainline, Palitoy, early Bachmann and Hornby (even one or two Tri-ang). Modifications have been replacement wheelsets, removal of tension-lock couplings (and their mountings), the fitting of screw-link or three-link couplings and general weathering - all considerable improvements in my book. 

 

Yet, at a recent show, to many potential purchasers, these 'improvements' were the greatest impediment to my selling any of them! I lost count of the number of times I stated that the models were much more-realistic, and thus much more-worthy. In the end, I was selling them for less than any equivalent originals, especially those still in their original boxes. 

 

Are we really in a situation where many, many modellers cannot even fit couplings? Or, remove 'proper' couplings (and then sell them?), fit a mounting made from plastic and screw in a tension-lock? Or even prise out the replacement metal wheelsets and re-fit the plastic originals, if they were still around? 

 

Ultimately, in some cases, I was selling wagons for the cost of the wheelsets! 

 

The hardest to sell (I suppose inevitably, not at an EM show)? Those wagons, whatever their origins, fitted with EM axles. One bloke looked in awe at me as I took an axle out and re-gauged it to OO, doing the same to the other one. He then bought the wagon. Is re-gauging really beyond the majority?

 

The conclusion would seem to be that untouched/non-improved/non-detailed/unaltered RTR items are worth more than those which (because someone has actually done some modelling) are actually much more-accurate models. 

 

A strange state of affairs, indeed!

Interesting observations Tony; reflects so many thing’s getting ‘dumbed down’  in general. I would think most reading WWs would be happy to make adjustments to those wagons and take delight in running them- EM or OO. 
What a win- win for the charity. Well done. 
From a cold NZ winter ..Andy R

[BMacdermott]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As for RTR B16s, are they on any manufacturer's radar? 

 

Hello Tony

 

I can't specifically answer your question, but the B16/1 was in The Top 50 of The 00 Wishlist Poll 2022, with the B16/2 and B16/3 in High Polling.

 

All three have consistently climbed up - slowly - since 2016, with the B16/1 always being higher than B16/2 and B16/3 (which we generally list as 'combined').

 

Brian (on behalf of Th 00 Poll Team)

[Chamby]

The demise of a capability/willingness to ‘build it oneself’ is surely down, in part, to the removal of metalworking as a school subject all those years ago.  I fondly remember my ‘double metalwork’ lessons, which alternated half-termly with woodwork, as an enjoyable part of the school curriculum until the time came to make my GCE choices.  Long gone, this must have had an impact on our hobby’s character.

 

In a way, the fact that we have a ‘wishlist’ poll at all is a reflection on the disappearing ‘ make it myself’ mindset.  

 

I  spent much of my youth in the shadow of the former GC London Extension, that has inevitably formed my modelling focus and as @65179 mentions above, I have been able to build up a remarkable representation of the line from RTR items, with Sonic Models’ A5 recently filling the last major gap in the locomotive roster.  Most of my own ‘build it myself’ activity has therefore revolved around the layout itself, rather than what runs on it, although that will have to change when the need to better represent coaching stock reaches the top of the ‘to do’ pile...

[Jol Wilkinson]

19 minutes ago, Chamby said:

"The demise of a capability/willingness to ‘build it oneself’ is surely down, in part, to the removal of metalworking as a school subject all those years ago.  I fondly remember my ‘double metalwork’ lessons, which alternated half-termly with woodwork, as an enjoyable part of the school curriculum until the time came to make my GCE choices.  Long gone, this must have had an impact on our hobby’s character.

 

In a way, the fact that we have a ‘wishlist’ poll at all is a reflection on the disappearing ‘ make it myself’ mindset. "

 

 

Possibly contentious but I believe that in addition to the apparent loss of any practical skill training in schools, successive governments have promoted the need to get a university degree to enter some "service industry/non productive career" rather than recognising  that the economy needs people with manual skills. That has produced a society where the idea of doing something practical and constructive appears to be outside most peoples area of confidence. There seems to be a definite unwillingness to "have a go", Perhaps fear of failure has become too ingrained in peoples psyche.

 

In addition, "status" has become more about what you can afford to buy/own than your ability to create/restore/repair something.

[gr.king]

43 minutes ago, Chamby said:

The demise of a capability/willingness to ‘build it oneself’ is surely down, in part, to the removal of metalworking as a school subject all those years ago.  I fondly remember my ‘double metalwork’ lessons, which alternated half-termly with woodwork, as an enjoyable part of the school curriculum until the time came to make my GCE choices.  Long gone, this must have had an impact on our hobby’s character.

 

In a way, the fact that we have a ‘wishlist’ poll at all is a reflection on the disappearing ‘ make it myself’ mindset.  

 

I  spent much of my youth in the shadow of the former GC London Extension, that has inevitably formed my modelling focus and as @65179 mentions above, I have been able to build up a remarkable representation of the line from RTR items, with Sonic Models’ A5 recently filling the last major gap in the locomotive roster.  Most of my own ‘build it myself’ activity has therefore revolved around the layout itself, rather than what runs on it, although that will have to change when the need to better represent coaching stock reaches the top of the ‘to do’ pile...

I'm not so sure. In my case, I was "taught" metalwork for a couple of terms at the age of thirteen. Everything was "taught" by a teacher who simply issued instructions and spouted unfamiliar terms without any proper explanation of the underlying science. It also seemed to me that he had taken to disliking me from an early stage, and had no time at all for those who didn't already know various things or those who didn't master certain techniques straight away and who might need further help and encouragement. Even when I was sure that I was doing exactly what I had been told to do, there was frequently criticism. As a result, I felt that I learned (or properly understood) very little, and was only too happy when the time came to switch to woodwork, which I took to like a duck to water and stuck with to O level at 16.

None of that seems to have stopped me from learning later, from other more amenable sources, how to make models in metal and how to deal with various automotive repairs without constant reliance on professionals. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by gr.king
minor correction

[Mark Laidlay]

11 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Dorrigo appears to be just a bigger version of what some parts of some heritage railways look like.  Having some projects underway and a few others awaiting money and available volunteers is completely excusable, but this is what happens when the lead individual, whenever they have any spare funds, never spends it on what they've already got but buys another project.  As you say, there are apologists for these people, but it's analagous to the modelling on this thread; I'm impressed with people who have restored something, not those who've bought something.

 

What is doubly sad about the scale of Dorrigo is that when the scheme is eventually wound up, there is far too much material for the Australian preservation movement - distributed over a vast area as it is - to absorb and plenty of historic items will probably be headed for the smelter.  Many of those Australian designs are beautiful; Victorian-era looking in a British-design-but-not-quite kind of way.

Dorrigo primarily has ex NSWGR locos and Australians are somewhat parochial, the only people possibly wanting these are NSW based heritage lines.  Currently there is only one operational NSWGR line and that is based on the NSW rail transport museum so they hardly need more locos.  Remember NSW was the only colony that built using Stephenson's Gauge from the start, no other state had SG until 1917 and that was the Nullabor line, coast to coast was 1970.  NSWGR preservation is not in a strong position.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Tony

 

I can't specifically answer your question, but the B16/1 was in The Top 50 of The 00 Wishlist Poll 2022, with the B16/2 and B16/3 in High Polling.

 

All three have consistently climbed up - slowly - since 2016, with the B16/1 always being higher than B16/2 and B16/3 (which we generally list as 'combined').

 

Brian (on behalf of Th 00 Poll Team)

Thanks Brian,

 

We'll have to wait and see.............

 

Meanwhile,

 

 

Here are three of Bytham's quartet of B16s (there used to be two more!). The fourth member is my ancient B16/3 (61448, now very rarely used), built from a Nu-Cast kit when it first appeared. 

 

The B16/1 was built/painted/weathered from a much-altered DJH kit by Tony Geary.

The B16/2 was built from a much-altered PDK kit by Mike Edge, re-motored/repainted by me and weathered by Tom Foster.

The B16/3 was built by me from a much-altered Nu-Cast kit and painted by Geoff Haynes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Returning to the pair of siphons featured last week............

 

 

I've weathered the Siphon F to the state it might well have been in early BR days (this is not for use on LB).

 

 

And I've applied a coat of BR crimson to the Siphon G. Does anyone know the best source of BR transfers to complete this, please? 

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Possibly contentious but I believe that in addition to the apparent loss of any practical skill training in schools, successive governments have promoted the need to get a university degree to enter some "service industry/non productive career" rather than recognising  that the economy needs people with manual skills. That has produced a society where the idea of doing something practical and constructive appears to be outside most peoples area of confidence. There seems to be a definite unwillingness to "have a go", Perhaps fear of failure has become too ingrained in peoples psyche.

 

In addition, "status" has become more about what you can afford to buy/own than your ability to create/restore/repair something.

 

Totally agree - I went to university because it was "expected". I use precisely zero of my mechanical engineering degree for work - although it did include a module where we went to the local college to get some experience with metalworking so my vague knowledge of lathe's etc was a by-product of going. There was something on the news the other day that said a lot of people goe to university because they don't know what else to do.

[Northmoor]

55 minutes ago, gr.king said:

I'm not so sure. In my case, I was "taught" metalwork for a couple of terms at the age of thirteen. Everything was "taught" by a teacher who simply issued instructions and spouted unfamiliar terms without any proper explanation of the underlying science. It also seemed to me that he had taken to disliking me from an early stage, and had no time at all for those who didn't already know various things or those who didn't master certain techniques straight away and who might need further help and encouragement. Even when I was sure that I was doing exactly what I had been told to do, there was frequently criticism. As a result, I felt that I learned (or properly understood) very little, and was only too happy when the time came to switch to woodwork, which I took to like a duck to water and stuck with to O level at 16.

None of that seems to have stopped me from learning later, from other more amenable sources, how to make models in metal and how to deal with various automotive repairs without constant reliance on professionals. 

It always comes down to the teacher.  Our metalwork teacher was the most boring man I ever came across in my entire education, while the woodwork teacher was a psychopath who would nowadays almost certainly be removed from working with children.  Yet while I probably learned something from them both, I learned much, much more because my own Dad is a self-reliant sort of person (as well as a qualified civil engineer) who never wants to pay someone else to do anything he can do himself.  He was always doing woodwork jobs around our property and basic maintenance on the cars, so I was brought up with the same mindset. 

 

8 minutes ago, Mark Laidlay said:

Dorrigo primarily has ex NSWGR locos and Australians are somewhat parochial, the only people possibly wanting these are NSW based heritage lines.  Currently there is only one operational NSWGR line and that is based on the NSW rail transport museum so they hardly need more locos.  Remember NSW was the only colony that built using Stephenson's Gauge from the start, no other state had SG until 1917 and that was the Nullabor line, coast to coast was 1970.  NSWGR preservation is not in a strong position.

Thanks, easy to forget the sheer size of the country and the variety of gauges across it, so being a little parochial is understandable.  My only experience of Australian railway preservation was the Bassendean Museum in Perth 25 years ago, which could have showed a few UK museums how to keep a working site tidy and presentable.

[St Enodoc]

35 minutes ago, Mark Laidlay said:

NSWGR preservation is not in a strong position.

Yes it is - but not at Dorrigo...

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Possibly contentious but I believe that in addition to the apparent loss of any practical skill training in schools, successive governments have promoted the need to get a university degree to enter some "service industry/non productive career" rather than recognising  that the economy needs people with manual skills. That has produced a society where the idea of doing something practical and constructive appears to be outside most peoples area of confidence. There seems to be a definite unwillingness to "have a go", Perhaps fear of failure has become too ingrained in peoples psyche.

 

In addition, "status" has become more about what you can afford to buy/own than your ability to create/restore/repair something.

What is the point in teaching kids how to make things when we don't have a manufacturing base anymore and most manufacturing that is left is done by computer operated robots.

 

Where do the months of me learning to bench fit using files, scrapers etc fit into today's manufacturing?

 

As for young people not wanting to make kits because they don't know how to make things, utter tosh. There are not so many younger people interested in toy trains as there was.

 

We have also got to look at the many railway modellers who take up the hobby later in life, many don't have a practical skills background. How many retired lawyers, bankers, IT specialist have had to use a lathe to turn a 3/4 inch left handed thread in a blind hole, off centre in a rectangular block of steel? That is why they buy stuff off the shelf.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Clive Mortimore