Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

For those who'd like to see the two Hornby P2s in action..........

 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/video-hornbys-p2-2-8-2s-in-action

 

By gum, I've certainly aged in the last decade!

Edited September 1, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

Today, I had a visit from four members of the Ely Club. 

 

A wonderful time was had by all (despite an A3's tender derailing - at high speed! - and a van coming off in the fiddle yard. Not only that, a driving wheel came loose on an A1, causing the loco to jam! All these things were investigated and the problems resolved). Gentlemen, my apologies for such appalling transgressions in Bytham's three hours' running. 

 

Gentlemen, may I also thank you for your hospitality at lunchtime, your generous donations to CRUK and for buying some wagons? I'm glad you enjoyed yourselves. 

 

I certainly enjoyed myself, particularly seeing the recent work of Jamie Rands, at 19 the club's youngest member. He showed me this..........

 

 

 

 

It's an ancient K's O4 which he bought at the Ely Show in June for £40.00. It didn't work! It does now; superbly, thanks to his re-motoring it and sorting out dodgy pick-ups. He's also cleaned up the bodywork, with work still to do. 

 

How encouraging it is to see a young modeller developing his skills, becoming self-reliant, not dependent on RTR and not asking others to do his modelling for him. Well done Jamie, I applaud you. Mind you, you're going to need all the qualities I've just described to build that Falcon Brass Ivatt 4 2-6-0! 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Going back to photographic viewpoints..........

 

 

 

More-elevated views can give a greater impression of how a layout is configured. 

 

That said..........

 

 

 

 

Eye-level views can be quite 'dramatic'! 

 

Graham Nicholas is right - I have taken a shine to 2003. I think it's a fantastic model..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LNER4479]

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

The different arrangement of the coal space and the rear end have been modelled correctly, it would seem. Like TORNADO?

 

Certainly round ends to the axle boxes. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

It was easy enough for Hornby to get right - the tender has already been modelled pretty accurately for their previous model of 'Tornado' (although the real loco's tender front has been heavily modified this year to incorporate the new ETCS equipment)

[Flying Fox 34F]

Tony,

 

The misbehaving locomotives, are they part of the Bytham fleet?  And what were the causes?  The occurrences are unusual, hence my curiosity.

 

Paul

[Iain.d]

An update on a Roxey 3 Carriage Non-Corridor LSWR set has seen me add the buffers and truss rods to each chassis. For the brake carriages I decided to use .9mm wire for the queen posts rather than the provided whitemetal castings; they would have needed a fair amount of cleaning up, which would have compromised their strength and also, I thought, as they’re so fine, I’d melt them when soldering on the nickel silver wire. The lavatory composite carriage was provided with 1mm angle brass strip for its trusses.

 

 

I also decided to make up the couplings for them. The main components are from scraps and leftovers. The platforms to secure them to the carriage are from Comet Models bogie mounted tension lock coupling plates, the brake pipes from 1mm brass rod and the screw couplings provided by Roxey with the kits.

 

 

The platforms were trimmed and bent to shape. The holes for securing the tension locks were widened to fit the Roxey chassis to body fixing screws and the 1mm rod bent roughly to the shape of two hoses connected.

 

 

A test check for the fixing platforms, and on the end of the carriage which they will be coupled to, a short section of tube is soldered inboard of the buffer beam. The floor of the carriage is then drilled, through the tube, to allow the hook end of the brake pipe to pass. The hole is 1.2mm, allowing reasonable freedom of movement but not excessive.

 

 

Some detail added to the couplings: a few wraps of stripped electrical cable for the hose ribbing, the Roxey couplings soldered to each brake pipe upright (in line with the slot in the buffer beam).

 

 

And how the coupling will sit when secured to the carriage.

 

 

And then coupled up to its neighbouring vehicle. I inadvertently bent the pipe slightly when setting up the photo, which is why it’s not quite vertical. The gap between the buffers is somewhat larger than I’d hoped, well a lot actually; I may well end up making some more, using shorter screw coupling loops and tensioner. I’ll see what it looks like when its painted and when the carriage end detail and things like the steam heating pipes are added; they might fill the gap a bit.

 

 

Lots of pictures I’m afraid, but so often with these types of activities, I find it very hard to be articulate in my description.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Edited September 2, 2023 by Iain.d
add a word

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

Tony,

 

The misbehaving locomotives, are they part of the Bytham fleet?  And what were the causes?  The occurrences are unusual, hence my curiosity.

 

Paul

Good morning Paul,

 

When you say 'misbehaving locomotives', do you mean the pony derailing on the new Hornby P2 (seen in the video), the A3's tender derailing and/or the loose driver on the A1? In the case of the first-mentioned, that was easily cured (as seen on the video) by adjusting the back-to-back and increasing the springing; an instant fix.

 

In the case of the A3's derailing tender, this occurred (at much higher than scale speed) on a trailing slip on the Down fast (problems on more complex trackwork are more prevalent, anyway; hence the real railway's removal of such things on fast lines in more recent years). After re-railing, the train was run several times more (at even higher speed) without any problems. After my friends had gone, I checked the tender wheels' back-to-backs, and all four axles were exactly right. I tried it again, leaving it running unattended for a dozen or so laps; absolutely no problems, so an isolated incident? 

 

All that had happened on the A1 (after a decade's use) was the nearside rear driver's retaining nut (Romford) had, over time, come loose. Not loose enough for the wheel to fall off, but loose enough for the nut to foul the coupling rod's rear, causing it to jam. A quick 'screw-up' with the Romford screwdriver and all was well again. 

 

Both the A3 and the A1 are part of Bytham's stud, and such problems are very, very rare (as I hope visitors will testify). Almost all Bytham's trains were run yesterday (several times) in about three hours' running, with just those isolated incidents (the derailed van had a twisted coupling). Which means near 50 different trains, and the same number of locos!

 

The new-build P2 PRINCE OF WALES will certainly not be part of Bytham's stud, and LORD PRESIDENT isn't appropriate, either.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[JamieR4489]

Many thanks for an excellent day, yesterday, Tony. We all certainly enjoyed ourselves.

 

Thanks, also, for your kind comments, constructive criticisms, and new pony wheels for the O4 and for the Flying Pig kit. I read the instructions last night and quickly put everything back in the box! It was very selfish of Mr Ivatt to design a loco that is so difficult to make a model of.

 

Regards,

 

Jamie

[Mark C]

I did the same with Millholme's version of the Ivatt Class 4 and ended up (part) building Crownline's version (with the milky bar boiler and firebox) instead, which was much more successful (there are pictures a few hundred pages back on this thread).  Bachmann's later incarnation put paid to its' completion...though maybe one day...

 

 

Mark

 

[gr.king]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

Eye-level views can be quite 'dramatic'! 

Indeed, I can see that not enough trouble has been taken at the design and manufacture stage to make a perfectly flush, invisible joint between the tapered front-half of the boiler cladding and the parallel rear part. There's a visible step at the transition! Is it some sort of plug-in joint, and Is any unpainted plastic showing?

[Tony Wright]

29 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Indeed, I can see that not enough trouble has been taken at the design and manufacture stage to make a perfectly flush, invisible joint between the tapered front-half of the boiler cladding and the parallel rear part. There's a visible step at the transition! Is it some sort of plug-in joint, and Is any unpainted plastic showing?

Good morning Graeme,

 

The joint you mention is far more-pronounced in my picture than is present to the naked eye - the disadvantage of 'forensic' photography!

 

There is no visible unpainted plastic; it's just a shadow created by pulses of powerful fill-in flash aimed towards the rear of the scene to give even lighting.

 

 

It's just present here, but nowhere near as evident under photo-floods. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[mattingleycustom]

Something I posted on the Hornby P2 new tooling thread a week or two ago:

 

I was looking at my pair: 2003 and 2005 and thought there was something not quite correct about the front end.

I think I have it spotted it now, on the Hornby models the curve of the running plate from above the cylinders to the front of the loco is too shallow; or put another way the gradient of this slope is too small, resulting in the casing being too deep for most of its length from cylinders to buffers.

On the models, at the front end where the first casing join behind the buffers is, the top of the casing/running plate is about level with the lower door of the 'Cod's mouth', whereas on the real thing (photo of 2006 borrowed below for reference) it is below the level of the hinges on the lower door.

Overall it's a minor thing that may have more to do with Hornby catering for the various combinations of front end on the first two and the production batch of four.

 

 

The lining could have been finer; the white line between the sloping front and smokebox side is too thick and the boiler bands should have a thicker black band between the white lines.

I will restate that these are minor points and overall the Hornby version is a fine model of an impressive prototype.

 

Glenn

 

[gr.king]

Now that you draw attention to that area, I see that the Hornby model has a flat running plate immediately behind the protruding cover for the steam pipe to the cylinders. That area should be part of the curve / slope too...

[Flying Fox 34F]

Tony,

 

Thank you for your detailed response.

The A3 tender appears to be down to speed.  The A1 wheel, one of those unexpected things, especially after so many years service, but easily resolved.  As for the P2, the joys of RTR and whoever assembled it.

 

Paul

[Tony Wright]

I mentioned the rebuilding of the P2s into A2/2s as 'extreme'. Others have (quite righty) responded by citing even more 'extreme' rebuilds.

 

That said, please have a glance at the following images and compare them with similar views I took of the P2 LORD PRESIDENT, posted on here of late.

 

 

 

Built from DJH parts and scratch by me, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

 

Built from a Crownline kit by me, painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

I have no wish to go over old ground, but (on a purely personal level) I find it difficult to believe how such a visually stunning 2-8-2 could be 'transformed' into such an uncouth looking 4-6-2. 

 

No doubt others will disagree, but we've been here before - many times! 

 

 

[gr.king]

I've been comparing my DIY Lord President P2 conversion with images of the Hornby product. Mine may lack a few bolt heads, factory crispness of finish, sufficient turn-under of the valances around and just ahead of the cylinders, and may possibly be lacking two oil boxes on the right side of the running plate (not sure about those), but on the positive side there is no evidence of an imperfect joint between the parallel and tapered parts of the boiler, the start of the down-curve in the running plate is correctly present behind the cylinder steam pipe covers, the front valances show the faintly discernible edges of the bulge that accommodates the cylinders and they appear to do a better job of enclosing the upper parts of the pony truck wheels (maybe they are in a lower overall position?), the main guard irons are present, additionally all of the mud-hole door covers on the firebox sides are lined out. So I'm still happy to have made one for myself.

Edited September 3, 2023 by gr.king
spelling mistake

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

I've been comparing my DIY Lord President P2 conversion with images of the Hornby product. Mine may lack a few bolt heads, factory crispness of finish, sufficient turn-under of the valances around and just ahead of the cylinders, and may possibly be lacking two oil boxes on the right side of the running plate (nor sure about those), but on the positive side there is no evidence of an imperfect joint between the parallel and tapered parts of the boiler, the start of the down-curve in the running plate is correctly present behind the cylinder steam pipe covers, the front valances show the faintly discernible edges of the bulge that accommodates the cylinders and they appear to do a better job of enclosing the upper parts of the pony truck wheels (maybe they are in a lower overall position?), the main guard irons are present, additionally all of the mud-hole door covers on the firebox sides are lined out. So I'm still happy to have made one for myself.

Good afternoon Graeme,

 

It's certainly a fine model.

 

And, I've photographed it on Little Bytham....

 

 

In company with your own rebuild...........

 

 

To make an A2/2.

 

 

I've also photographed your 2003 on Grantham.

 

LORD PRESIDENT seems to be a popular choice..........

 

 

Here's a K's kit for one (builder/painter unknown). 

 

 

 

The 'ultimate' 2003? The Loveless version in O Gauge.

 

 

Eric Kidd's K'2 P2.

 

 

And my version of how I saw MONS MEG.

 

Some of these will have been seen before, of course, but it could be a thousand pages back or more in some cases!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Jamiel]

A question.

Is cyano/superglue really a good solution for joining steel to either brass or plastic?
 

Motor and gears sitting place on a High Level kits ‘Lo Rider’, before setting them in place.

 

In the instructions it says to glue the worm gears and also cogs and bushes in place using cyano/superglue.

Is cyano really OK for a brass to steel join? Won’t it dry and fail? I suspect plastic to steel will be better with cyano.

Maybe I have a prejudice against cyano staying stuck in the long run.

I may not be reading the instructions well, but it seems a bit unclear as to how to locate the gear shafts in place. Should I burnish the ends with hammer to spread them a little, or should I glue and pack spacers inside the frame.
 

Just to say it is a nice kit, and I am maybe over thinking things, or maybe just being a bit dumb.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
 

Jamie

Edited September 3, 2023 by Jamiel

[65179]

23 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

A question.

Is cyano/superglue really a good solution for joining steel to either brass or plastic?
 

Motor and gears sitting place on a High Level kits ‘Lo Rider’, before setting them in place.

 

In the instructions it says to glue the worm gears and also cogs and bushes in place using cyano/superglue.

Is cyano really OK for a brass to steel join? Won’t it dry and fail? I suspect plastic to steel will be better with cyano.

Maybe I have a prejudice against cyano staying stuck in the long run.

I may not be reading the instructions well, but it seems a bit unclear as to how to locate the gear shafts in place. Should I burnish the ends with hammer to spread them a little, or should I glue and pack spacers inside the frame.
 

Just to say it is a nice kit, and I am maybe over thinking things, or maybe just being a bit dumb.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
 

Jamie

 

Cyanoacrylates are used all over the place to glue all sorts of things in far more demanding scenarios than model trains (aviation etc). The issue is usually choosing the right one for the purpose.

 

For brass to steel a threadlocker like Loctite 243 may be suitable as long as the fit is good enough (anaerobic curing).

 

Simon

Edited September 3, 2023 by 65179

[Izzy]

I’ve used a few HL boxes now and my method is to use a little cryno to keep the worm in place, and cut the shafts very slightly over width, so a very small amount sticks out, and just dab a bit of cryno on the outside furthest from the particular gear just to hold them in place as the forces are rotational and not sideways. Are the final drive gears not screw fit now as most of the others are? Much better.

 

Bob

[Jamiel]

25 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I’ve used a few HL boxes now and my method is to use a little cryno to keep the worm in place, and cut the shafts very slightly over width, so a very small amount sticks out, and just dab a bit of cryno on the outside furthest from the particular gear just to hold them in place as the forces are rotational and not sideways. Are the final drive gears not screw fit now as most of the others are? Much better.

 

Bob

Thanks for that. The cogs don't have the grub screw like the Comet and similar gear boxes I have made before, so the glue will be doing the work there.

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for that. The cogs don't have the grub screw like the Comet and similar gear boxes I have made before, so the glue will be doing the work there.

 

I think that your worm wheels must be old stock - I'm pretty sure that they all have bosses and grub screws nowadays.

 

CJI

 

[Jamiel]

15 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that your worm wheels must be old stock - I'm pretty sure that they all have bosses and grub screws nowadays.

 

CJI

 

Possibly so, but I did only buy it two weeks ago.

It might be influenced by my choice of gear ratio which is the mid one offered, which might have meant that an old worm had to be used.

I was lucky to get the bogie kit, they have been out of stock for a while, so it was put together for me after I emailed about availability, for which I am very grateful.

Jamie

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Jamiel

[Michael Edge]

Cyano is fine for fixing the worm but you need to be very careful with the gears on the axles, it can easily creep along and lock the bearings. Personally I hate this sort of thing and would always go for grub screw fastening, I spent many years encouraging Chris to do it with all his gearboxes - maybe the Lorider is still the old design. Another option may be to raise a burr on the axle where the gearwheel fits, you can do this by rolling the axle with a rough file.

[Jamiel]

25 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Cyano is fine for fixing the worm but you need to be very careful with the gears on the axles, it can easily creep along and lock the bearings. Personally I hate this sort of thing and would always go for grub screw fastening, I spent many years encouraging Chris to do it with all his gearboxes - maybe the Lorider is still the old design. Another option may be to raise a burr on the axle where the gearwheel fits, you can do this by rolling the axle with a rough file.

Thanks Mike. I had already used glue on the gearshafts. The axel is OK as it is a tight fit. It will be cyano for the worms as you suggest.

Thank you for recommending the 'Lo Rider' bogie, it is a really nice little kit to build.

Jamie