Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Pebbles said:

Whilst based in Eastbourne, my patch extended to Camberley. One day, in about 1977/78, after keeping my appointment I took the opportunity of visiting EAMES. A real Aladdin's cave of a shop.

This story comes from my wife. Many years ago, at one of her club meeting, she met the wife of someone who was connected to EAMES. This woman claimed that after EAMES had closed she "inherited" ( my wife's description),  a garage full of ex EAMES stock that she still had.  This story could of course be one of those Rosebud Kitmaster A3 moments.

Good afternoon,

 

EAMES was the main supplier of Jamieson kits, and all the tools for making those kits - stamps, forming jigs, etc, ended up in tea chests at Autocom in Andover, along with hundreds of parts - not as complete kits, but, with some sorting............... I offered to buy the lot, but it all went for scrap. What a waste!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I think the big difference between the loss of, say, the likes of EAMES of Reading and (the current) Hattons is that the former was a (relatively small) model shop and the latter a massive retail outlet. 

The loss of their sister shop at Kings Cross was a far greater loss to me than Hattons - much as I enjoyed looting treasures from their s/h - is now. A proper model railway specialist shop where you could obtain 'everything' from a single visit, and enjoy conversations with the like minded. Still miss it every time I pass through KX.

[lezz01]

I don't remember EAMES but I have very similar memories of Puffers when it was next to Kenton station. I tried to buy it along with a fellow MRC member but it came to nothing as the owner wouldn't let us examine the accounts properly and it didn't include the rights to the kits and the lease was coming to an end. Had it included the Perseverance range we would have made it work but without it the shop itself was worth very little.

Regards Lez.   

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, Pebbles said:

Whilst based in Eastbourne, my patch extended to Camberley. One day, in about 1977/78, after keeping my appointment I took the opportunity of visiting EAMES. A real Aladdin's cave of a shop.

This story comes from my wife. Many years ago, at one of her club meeting, she met the wife of someone who was connected to EAMES. This woman claimed that after EAMES had closed she "inherited" ( my wife's description),  a garage full of ex EAMES stock that she still had.  This story could of course be one of those Rosebud Kitmaster A3 moments.

 

When living in Ilford I would occasionally visit Kings Cross Models, one buying a Jamieson MR Compound kit, but it was beyond my abilities at the time and was sold on partly built.

 

Later I had a job that covered quite a large area in the south east and so was able to visit a number of model shops during my travels. Some disappointed - not living up to what their RM adverts lead you to believe, while others were real treasure troves. On such was Tony Collets shop in Portsmouth, where the kit/scratch builder could find literally anything  they wanted. Later Puffers of Kenton became my go to shop, where a wide range of kits and bits, plus advice were available. I occasionally visited Blunts of Mill Hill, although they were more of a "general" model shop with RC models, etc.

 

Edited January 19 by Jol Wilkinson
Typo

[Jol Wilkinson]

7 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

I don't remember EAMES but I have very similar memories of Puffers when it was next to Kenton station. I tried to buy it along with a fellow MRC member but it came to nothing as the owner wouldn't let us examine the accounts properly and it didn't include the rights to the kits and the lease was coming to an end. Had it included the Perseverance range we would have made it work but without it the shop itself was worth very little.

Regards Lez.   

 

Chris Parrish closed the shop and moved to Pickering, drawn by his involvement with the NYMR. When he passed away the range of Puffers/Perseverance remained with his wife but after some years are now with another "small supplier" (otherwise they would have ended in the skip) although, as is often the case they were undocumented or catalogued and need sorting out. It required a LWB Transit to move it.

[rowanj]

The end of railway Modelling must really be nigh if it made it onto BBC Breakfast the other day. To be fair the BUT ( which is how the BBC always follows any good news these days) Broadcasting Corp, gave a very positive spin on the hobby on its' piece from Spalding MRC. Perhaps the aAmaggedon of the loss of Hattons and Warley has been a tad exaggerated?

 

I have just finished the LRM J21 as in the photograph. Once I could have wandered into the Newcastle Model Shop or Northumbria Models and picked up a kit, along with all the wheels and motor and anything else I needed, Now, in Newcastle, only Fenwicks exists with its; Hornby franchise (at RRP's_. To get the J21 built involved an online order for the body/tender and separate orders and delays for the motor, gearbox and wheels. Nothing insuperable, but hardly as convenient as in days of yore, especially when some parts were missing, I wouldn't have bothered if an RTR had been available.

 

I am firmly of the view that you have to enjoy building kits, and have the confidence to believe you can complete them to your own satisfaction and get them to run to make the exercise worthwhile, In fact, I suspect that the building exercise is nore important than actually running them is at least as important to many However, for most folk, the majority of stock you need is available RTR and will be better than you can build and paint yourself anyway. Nowadays, I build to fill in the gaps, and for the pleasure of construction, and I'm old enough not to care if anyone thinks my efforts are not good enough. 

Edited January 19 by rowanj

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The loss of their sister shop at Kings Cross was a far greater loss to me than Hattons - much as I enjoyed looting treasures from their s/h - is now. A proper model railway specialist shop where you could obtain 'everything' from a single visit, and enjoy conversations with the like minded. Still miss it every time I pass through KX.

I worked in the KX shop for a few months as a summer vacation job in the late 1970s and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Whilst there, I built my first loco kit as a 'sale' item - a Cotswold M&SWJR 2-4-0, which led to me building a lot more kits in the fullness of time, for another model shop.

 

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Puffers of Kenton became my go to shop

Another wonderful Aladdin's Cave of a place. I remember arriving at Central Hall for the MRJ exhibition and seeing the length of the queue... It was the Saturday and was bitterly cold. I immediately gave up on the idea of getting into the exhibition after someone described how crowded it was inside and how slowly the queue seemed to be moving. I had come up on the train from Bristol, so then decided to go up to Puffers in Kenton, where I spent a most enjoyable hour or so and bought some very useful bits and pieces.

 

[charlielynch]

So, I'm quite new to returning to the hobby and thought a few observations on some of the themes that have been raised in this thread... 1) Kits. There's no doubt that they can be charming, rewarding to build (if you know how) and can represent less common prototypes. However. The cost and level of risk involved will put them beyond the abilities of many modellers. As far as I can see, a kit may be more than £300 once wheels and motor are factored in, presuming that a newcomer can fathom out things like 'gearbox of your choice' etc. This is before building and painting, which have every prospect of going wrong. Esoteric extra parts may be required which may need to come from other suppliers. To give this outlay and risk some perspective, plenty of younger people will be aiming to spend £300 on food per person for one to two weeks. 2) Which brings me to my next point - cost of living. Given that many younger people are stuck in insecure employment which effectively excludes them from home ownership, and makes future planning challenging, a hobby which requires a large amount of investment and stability is unlikely to be at the forefront of their minds. Aside - the effective destruction of the 'safety net' of benefits means that any period of unemployment between jobs risks homelessness because benefits have not risen in line with inflation. And a landlord will charge far more for rent than benefits provide. Given this, and much more, it is not surprising if expensive hobbies have been losing popularity. 3) Modellers are older. Yes. I am in my thirties and I have met very few if any people modelling who are under sixty. Helping the future of the hobby would be better communication - Instagram is am ideal medium for promoting the hobby and several extremely adept modellers have realised this. It might also help if kit and part manufactures maintained proper websites with clear images of their products. Having worked for a small manufacturing firm in the past, I understand that this can be expensive and time consuming. The Wizard models website looks like an example of good practice here. 4) RTR models can also be pricey. My thoughts for a response to this is that a layout might have relatively few model locomotives and plenty of rolling stock and scenery. 

[Captain Kernow]

On 16/01/2024 at 20:44, Tony Wright said:

Fortunately, Nu-Cast & Partners (the new Nu-Cast) are steadily reintroducing examples from the previous range (with many improvements), including the 16XX I showed yesterday...........

 

 

 

What a lovely job you've made of that, Tony (and I saw a photo earlier in the thread of the superb weathering job done on it by Tom Foster).

 

For me, choosing a 16XX for my Welsh Borders layout was easy, as 1628 was not far away at Croes Newydd and was the last 16XX in BR service. I had obtained the old Cotswold kit second hand a few years ago, so I built that fairly recently (may have been during Lockdown) and put the Justin Newitt-designed NuCast Partners chassis under it. The chassis kit was excellent.

 

Here is my 1628 on 'Bethesda Sidings' (for clarification, all the lamps were taken off for trimming, prior to the return trip back down the branch....):

 

[Captain Kernow]

On the subject of new RTR affecting kits, I do agree with those that say that it does have an adverse effect on kit sales. I am certainly someone who has fairly limited modelling time, so if I want an example of a specific loco type, I will certainly give whatever RTR offerings there are out there, due consideration.

 

In the case of the 16XX illustrated above, however, I did buy one of the Rapido examples, but it ran poorly, so I built the Cotswold/NuCast Partners kit instead and was happy to do so. I then thought of converting the Rapido one to P4, as I also wanted an example in that gauge, but the overly complex way that the body and chassis have been designed meant that it simply wasn't possible to remove the body and substitute a new chassis, because some of the body castings are also part of the chassis. There would have been a lot of Mazak cutting and re-assembly to do, in order to arrive at a body which could accept an etched chassis. As a result, I now advise anyone wanting a P4 16XX to go for the NuCast Partners kit and not the Rapido one.

 

I would say that I am more likely to build a kit, if the loco is to be in P4 gauge. I did also buy a Rapido Hunslet 0-6-0ST, with the intention of running it on my OO layouts. I already had a Judith Edge kit for one in the 'stash' as well. In the end, the Rapido example ran like a dog, even after a lot of 'running in', so got returned to the retailer. The Judith Edge kit will be built, but in P4.

[Captain Kernow]

On the subject of panniers (apologies for so much Great Westernry!), I think that there is an example of an existing RTR product actually deterring the production of a kit equivalent...

 

When the Mainline 57XX pannier came out (early 1980s?), it was rightly hailed as a very good model at the time. Prior to that, there was a K's kit and the Hornby RTR example, the latter requiring a lot of work to transform it into a scale model).

 

Once the Mainline 57XX pannier was available to buy, no one else (to my knowledge) produced a kit of the same loco, yet at the same time the likes of Mitchell and Finney were producing exquisite kits of various GW and other company locos. I like to think that the fundamentals of the Mainline (later Bachmann) 57XX were so good, that no kit producer considered it worthwhile to produce a kit. The Bachmann re-issue of the body (in the early 'noughties') produced an even better body, with more detail, that is only now being challenged by Accurascale.

 

This is my 7795, produced by me in the 1980s, with a detailed Mainline body and a Perseverance chassis, Mashima motor and DJH gearbox:

 

 

Edited January 19 by Captain Kernow

[JamesSpooner]

I must confess I do still derive much of my model railway satisfaction from making things, although I have been known to indulge in operating sessions too.  Much of 2023 was spent building a rather lovely 52F kit of a G5 and a D&S ex GER push pull set to recreate the trains used on the Audley End to Bartlow line in the 1950’s.  I’m by no means a quick modeller and still have a job and family, both of which take up time, but I am relatively disciplined so use my modelling time all towards the one project.  I know, in this case, I could have bought a RTR G5, but the variant shedded at Saffron Walden/Cambridge wasn’t covered, I would have had to convert it to EM anyway and I just fancied making one.  It all depends how one gains one’s satisfaction from the hobby.

 

In terms of model shops, Bob Treacher’s son, Paul, runs an excellent emporium in Alton.

 

Nigel

 

 

[Barry Ten]

40 minutes ago, charlielynch said:

So, I'm quite new to returning to the hobby and thought a few observations on some of the themes that have been raised in this thread... 1) Kits. There's no doubt that they can be charming, rewarding to build (if you know how) and can represent less common prototypes. However. The cost and level of risk involved will put them beyond the abilities of many modellers. As far as I can see, a kit may be more than £300 once wheels and motor are factored in, presuming that a newcomer can fathom out things like 'gearbox of your choice' etc. 

 

There really is no good economic argument for kitbuilding, alas, unless the time spent building the model becomes factored into the enjoyment process. The one area where kits might score, though, is in longevity. I'm pretty confident that once built, there's no part of a kitbuilt loco I couldn't replace in due course if something went wrong or wore out. Whereas some RTR models seem to be designed with a deliberately obtuse approach when it comes to taking them apart, provided that suitable replacement parts are available (which they probably won't be).

[Compound2632]

55 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

There really is no good economic argument for kitbuilding, alas, unless the time spent building the model becomes factored into the enjoyment process. 

 

But isn't that the Whole Point?

 

Just as there's no good economic argument for going to the football, opera, or pub.

[Barry Ten]

24 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But isn't that the Whole Point?

 

Just as there's no good economic argument for going to the football, opera, or pub.

 

That's a bit of a stretch as an argument, though, as there's no "RTR" equivalent of the football, opera or pub to offer a choice.

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

That's a bit of a stretch as an argument, though, as there's no "RTR" equivalent of the football, opera or pub to offer a choice.

 

Well yes true. There's no good economic argument for buying RTR either.

[richard i]

36 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

there's no "RTR" equivalent of the football,

Play it. Computer games of it?

I think the point being made is they cost money to do with little to show at the end. I still have all locos built by me. 
I am also under sixty, have a family and job which takes a lot of time. Progress is slow but I focus on one project. 
perhaps the younger generation has a shorter attention span due to social media short clips. It certainly has been a change in the education sector. Lessons need to be in shorter chunks than when I stared 25 years ago.

richard 
 

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the recent comments, and the examples of some excellent kit-building. I agree with everything that has been said.

 

I suppose the problem for many is their perceived inability to build a (loco) kit successfully, not necessarily an inability to pay for it. Many are the aborted attempts I've come across, put back into their boxes in dismay, a 'wreckage of aspiration over ability'; those dismayed resolving to never attempt kit-building again. Many, in hope, have asked others (those offering a 'professional' model-making service) to make, say, a B17 or a K3 (before RTR examples became available) for them, only to have their hopes dashed even more as the end-product, though 'professionally-built', doesn't look much like expectations, and, even though it might look pretty, doesn't run! I suppose in extreme cases, those so dismayed give up the hobby altogether. Thankfully (dependent on ones point of view) such 'necessities' are in the past; along with 'dud' kits (which was a reason why so few locos were successfully-built in times gone) and anything RTR available was gross - tender-drives, split chassis, moulded-on detail and 'battleship' valve gear. Newcomers/returnees to the hobby now have a cornucopia of excellence to indulge their hobby in.

 

Of course, kit-building (and, especially, scratch-building) is way, way beyond the majority in this hobby, other than the making of simple plastic or card kits. If this sounds elitist, then I'm afraid (in my experience) it's true. I'd certainly put really good (loco/stock) painting into that category as well - its mysteries are beyond me, for sure; a quality airbrush, lining with a bow-pen and the right temperament, not to mention great ability.

 

Those who find difficulty in making anything 'decent' should never be denied deriving great pleasure from railway modelling. However, they will never (in my view) be able to say 'I made that', no matter how humble in comparison it might be compared with the latest piece of RTR wonderment. Those who commission work (often of excellent quality) will also never get that great 'buzz' from having made something themselves. Quite a few in this category find the epithet 'chequebook modeller' offensive, but I've heard it said many times (not on here). 

 

There are (I'm told) quite a few who won't read this thread because (it's their perception that) posters rather 'look down' on those who don't build things themselves. I deny that, and I believe they're missing out on seeing some marvellous modelling in all disciplines (abstracting my work, of course).  

 

'It's an ill wind', of course, and I'll admit to obtaining (at a very low price) quite a few part-built kits by those who've 'thrown in the towel'. By taking apart what's started (these are universally-glued together, including frames!) and rebuilding them an 'acceptable' model can often be the result. Here's an example...........

 

 

Swapped at one Gloucester event for a Hornby Dublo item, this was a part-built Wills A3. 24 hours in paint stripper resulted in a 'kit' again, which I rebuilt, made a brass chassis for it and finished it off. 

 

Without being sentimental, I gave it a 'second chance'. 

 

As I did with this A1............

 

 

In fairness, the body of this was quite well-built, if unfinished. However, the chassis was a very poor runner (not uncommon). I paid £60.00 for it, completed the body, dismantled and rebuilt the chassis, getting a really good runner, and asked Geoff Haynes to paint it. 

 

Keep a look out for bargains like these.............

[grob1234]

Kit building is possible....

 

 

Buffers now fitted, and its weathered too. 

 

Economical? No!

Enjoyable? Immensely!

 

No one else on the planet has this particular model, that makes me happy.

 

A W1 conversion:

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by grob1234

[Captain Kernow]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I suppose the problem for many is their perceived inability to build a (loco) kit successfully, not necessarily an inability to pay for it.

I think I would agree with that and perhaps soldering is one of the key activities that may put people off? I've noticed a number of brass kits (not necessarily of locos or rolling stock), which are described as being able to be assembled using superglue. And that's fine, if that works for you (I do use superglue, but I was 'brought up' with 2-part epoxy resin, which is still my 'go to' glue for many things that can't be soldered.

 

12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Those who find difficulty in making anything 'decent' should never be denied deriving great pleasure from railway modelling. However, they will never (in my view) be able to say 'I made that', no matter how humble in comparison it might be compared with the latest piece of RTR wonderment.

One area where I find great satisfaction with RTR though, is the attempt to get any given loco to run better. For me, this usually means replacing the RTR chassis with an etched one and a decent motor and gearbox combination. That way, if the loco still doesn't run smoothly, at least it's my own fault...

 

I have found many of the RTR locos I've bought over the years didn't run smoothly enough at slow speeds for my satisfaction. Most of the locos I regularly use on my layouts have a brass or nickel silver chassis, some of them are kits, some with RTR bodies. In those circumstances, I do have the satisfaction of saying, 'I built (some of) that!'...

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

It is disappointing that so many "modellers" claim they don't have the ability or skill to build models from kits. 

 

None of are skilled when we are born. We have to learn to walk, talk, draw, paint, ride a bike, play golf, solder, make a bacon sandwich, the list is endless. We learn because we have to or want to. Perhaps too many people, increasingly want to be spoon fed in many walks of life (how often do you hear "somebody should do something about it").

 

If you want to create a model of a place, a period of time, etc. than you will make the effort to do what is required. The alternative is to create a layout around what others manufacture, which can have its limitations. That appears to be the route most bpeople are happy to tread.

[Blandford1969]

23 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

It is disappointing that so many "modellers" claim they don't have the ability or skill to build models from kits. 

 

None of are skilled when we are born. We have to learn to walk, talk, draw, paint, ride a bike, play golf, solder, make a bacon sandwich, the list is endless. We learn because we have to or want to. Perhaps too many people, increasingly want to be spoon fed in many walks of life (how often do you hear "somebody should do something about it").

 

If you want to create a model of a place, a period of time, etc. than you will make the effort to do what is required. The alternative is to create a layout around what others manufacture, which can have its limitations. That appears to be the route most bpeople are happy to tread.

With the way prices are rising for ready to run, kits are becoming less expensive in real terms. It just sadly seems so many want everything doing for them, but in doing so miss out on the pleasure of saying 'I built that' and that each is unique to us. 

 

 

[john new]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

That's a bit of a stretch as an argument, though, as there's no "RTR" equivalent of the football, opera or pub to offer a choice.

But there is/are the televised game(s) and home drinking options, so I believe that it is a reasonable, if not exact comment.

 

My tuppence worth re kits -v- rtr, at least for locomotives, is that there was a step change that occured around the time of Model Railway Journal's introduction.  Not the the only factor, MRJ  wasn't cause and effect by any means but it was a reflection of the changes. Etched brass kits of varying buildability and a higher standard of fidelity was being promulgated as the way to go. Around a similar time, if my memory of forty to fifty years back is correct, Wills bodyline kits to go onto modified r-t-r chassis also stopped. That didn't stop the expert builders but did cut out a stepping stone progression. That is especially true for locomotives needing valve gear. Loco kits would perhaps begin to reverse their decline in popularity if the valve gear came as a pre-built item. Sadly, as the r-t-r market has changed getting hold of spare chassis as separate items is also more difficult as evidenced on threads like the Jintystiens one.

 

We still have relatively easy to build plastic kits from several manufacturers  but then a gap to what, for beginners in loco building at least, appears a daunting jump into etched kits. 

 

I can't speak for others but I have decided that I need to overcome that issue (Is fear the word?) and have booked a Missenden course so that I don't screw up the B!6 kit I have in hand to make. I can solder brass, and have done so but as the brass chassis kit I tried as my first attempt didn't go well I didn't try another. The descriptions of having to hammer brass pins in valve gear, having to work with several different melt point solders and the like was off putting.

 

To sum up, I do still build stuff, and enjoy making things, but over the last few years or so that effort seems to have gone more into assisting my wife in making theatre props than into my model railway items. With that it has been simple weathering jobs.

 

Edited January 19 by john new
Minor wording tweak.

[DenysW]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

That's a bit of a stretch as an argument, though, as there's no "RTR" equivalent of the football, opera or pub to offer a choice.

I'd say all of the above are RTR, where the non-RTR equivalents are playing football yourself in all weather, joining a choir and singing opera yourself, or brewing your own beer/wine/etc. For the last one I offer the kit alternative of touring minority brewers and vinyards (in England & Europe) and trying before you buy (in French: degustation).

[MarkC]

Kits? RTR? Modifying RTR? Rescue someone's kit disaster? Scratchbuilding? I've tackled/used/done them all. Yes, modern RTR can be utterly sensational, but given the choice I'd still prefer to build my own model too.

 

An example. I've recently identified a requirement for a 4-car Class 104 DMU. Now, those nice people at Heljan have recently announced a RTR set, but it'll be in excess of GBP300 for a 3-car set. After studying drawings of both the 104 and 110 units, by dint of some canny eBay shopping I've obtained a Hornby 3-car Class 110 DMU, plus a couple of extra coaches, which will, with careful razor saw use, good glue, some filler, doubtless some (free) bad language and a few hours of my time, produce a "layout" 4-car Class 104 for under half the Heljan price. There was, of course, the Silver Fox option too, but again that would work out more than the Hornby option.

 

Having said all that, although I have some DC Kits Class 108s to build, the Bachmann 3-car Class 108 that I won on eBay at a great price, complete with correct destination blinds at each end - which I hadn't noticed when bidding for it, so that was a HUGE bonus - will take some beating 😎

 

Mark

Edited January 19 by MarkC
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