RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2014 What seems to be the problem with the stock, Mike? Could it be that the back to backs are out because I have found that a lot of what would work perfectly well with Peco needs adjustment for handbuilt turnouts, partly because they are built to finer tolerances than Peco (which even with their Code 75, are pretty coarse) and partly because the B2B's have been quite a way out. With the latter, it's not something that you could pin on either Hornby or Bachmann as both are as bad as each other, rolling stock too at times. I bought a couple of B2B's from the OO Gauge Society and checked all locos and any erratic stock and with a bit of tweaking, the difference is astounding. Even my 30 year old Dapol Pug now runs through every turnout without a tight spot. The layout is looking lovely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Mike, I missed out yesterday and played catch-up just now. I'm with all the other posters - superb work and so neat. That is not just a model railway layout but a work of engineering of which to be justifiably proud! I feel that Jason's point about the back-to-back measurements is very valid and although fiddly, could end up saving you a fortune! I look forward to the time, after the snagging is complete, when we can enjoy images of that beautiful Jubilee collection running by with Mk1s in tow. Thanks for the inspiration, Kind regards, Jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Hi Mike all I can say is amazing work the likes of yourself, Jason ,Andy and Larry have got a skill I wish I could do I am just stuned how good it looks good work. And I had the same problem with rolling stock and back to backs. I ended up buying 2 back to back gauges from Colin at Alan gibbson I agree with Jock Jub on express work mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 How about a nice DIRTY WD with about 40 16tonners up behind, that's what I dream of, (well not just that you understand). hahhahha Same with the Vans, I'm not a Passenger fan, I prefer long dirty goods any day and pulling through those long curves through the Station will be some Video. Just can't wait. Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Hi all, Many thanks re: the comments, took me a while to get through the door! Rather than answer individual posts I'll summarise below.... Jeff: Thanks re: Cobalts. I'll try a lower voltage to begin with once I get a dedicated 9v output, the one thing I don't have to hand! I can do 5v, 6v and 12v. You're right about the sentiments of product designers, 'its never their fault - is it'. I am quite surprised with the variation in them to be honest, some move quickly and operate very well while others plod over and don't seem to be powerful enough. I have one being returned tomorrow that just creeps with NO load attached! Jason: I have been going through the stock with a B-B gauge and cleaning the wheels before they go on the layout but the variation is ASTOUNDING to be honest. I have two Bachmann Fruit vans - brand new - which run awful, yet some old Mainline wagons are running trouble free. It may be a weight issue so that is the next trial. I need to be careful about weighing them as they will have to climb those spirals and I want some decent length freights! (To keep Bodge happy you understand). I do have quite a number of wagons under 5 years old and some going back a while which apart from the wheel issues the 'looks' would not be suitable, they were fine on my old Chestergate & Milne layout but not for my 'last great project'. Jock & Mark: I'm on the case with the Jubilee's you'll both be glad to know, problem is I have not yet found out how to transfer a video from camera to RMWeb or YouTube that is actually viewable, its all jumpy. I will keep having a go when I get a chance. Andy: Dirty boy WD! Well I do have one but it has inexplicably stopped working and I've not had a chance to look at it, any other preference? Actually been out doing some wagon and loco' prep tonight with some loco's being run-in, nothing has run properly for about 2-3 years now so everything needs some sort of attention. I intend to have a really good old clear out as I go. I don't have any sentiment over loco's or stock so it won't be difficult to part with anything. It will also give me some badly needed space to organise my remaining stock into and give me a lot less to lavish the attention of the airbrush on! Its blooming marvellous watching two trains passing through the station, trouble is I keep stopping to watch them! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2014 Interesting comment about the Bachmann wagons, as I have a few that have dubious running qualities too that I am sure is down to crap tolerances and the fact that there are no bearings for the axles to sit in other than a dimple in the back of the plastic axleboxes. Another reason to stick with Parkside & co I reckon (which may partly explain why I have ordered three LNER 21 ton hoppers and another BR built 21 ton hopper from Parkside today, as well as a Coopercraft NER wooden bodied hopper. With the Bill Bedford 13 ton hopper that Paul kindly gave me the other week, that will take it up to 17 and still no coal drops or real justification for them ) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Morning Mike really good that your getting sorted, re the WD how about a nice 8F that would please Jeff as well. Bodge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Morning Mike really good that your getting sorted, re the WD how about a nice 8F that would please Jeff as well. Bodge. I think we can manage that! I can manage a still of the WD, not a video yet, not until get my head round the bleeding technology! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Interesting comment about the Bachmann wagons, as I have a few that have dubious running qualities too that I am sure is down to crap tolerances and the fact that there are no bearings for the axles to sit in other than a dimple in the back of the plastic axleboxes. Another reason to stick with Parkside & co I reckon (which may partly explain why I have ordered three LNER 21 ton hoppers and another BR built 21 ton hopper from Parkside today, as well as a Coopercraft NER wooden bodied hopper. With the Bill Bedford 13 ton hopper that Paul kindly gave me the other week, that will take it up to 17 and still no coal drops or real justification for them ) Hi Jason, I have half a dozen Parkside kits still in their bags because I just don't have the time. I used to rave about Bachmann but I'm NOT (edited as I missed the most important word! Doh!!!) so much of a fan now I'm afraid. Edited August 5, 2014 by mike61680 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have a pair of Parkside Hoppers that I started whilst on Holiday about 3 years ago and there about quarter done. I used to always take 2 or 3 O Gauge Parkside kits away on Holiday for the evenings or lazy afternoons when Dee was having a siesta. Struggling with the OO ones though. Bodge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have about 16 of the 16t Parksides, in their various guises. (the 16 tonners...), they are actually split into bauxite and gray and then intermingled with other stock. I find that with Code 100 Peco, the Bachmann wagons are just as easy to use. The club declined to participate in 3 links (I don't get it...I can connect them just fine...the rest of the club feel like Andy on a bad day connecting them ), so the Bachmann ones are easier to use there. (and remain hook & loop for that reason). So, if you need a train full, the Bachmann ones are easier to use if you are not converting them to 3 link- if you are going to convert them to 3 link, then go with the Parkside kits right off, as they are easier to build as 3 link, and the wheels are far better. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have about 16 of the 16t Parksides, in their various guises. (the 16 tonners...), they are actually split into bauxite and gray and then intermingled with other stock. I find that with Code 100 Peco, the Bachmann wagons are just as easy to use. The club declined to participate in 3 links (I don't get it...I can connect them just fine...the rest of the club feel like Andy on a bad day connecting them ), so the Bachmann ones are easier to use there. (and remain hook & loop for that reason). So, if you need a train full, the Bachmann ones are easier to use if you are not converting them to 3 link- if you are going to convert them to 3 link, then go with the Parkside kits right off, as they are easier to build as 3 link, and the wheels are far better. James Hi James, I will not be considering the 3-link option, far too fiddly for me now, was okay with them 20 years ago. I was also in a club which ran whatever the stock came with so I just stuck to that. I will however be selecting a variety of stock to fit Kaydee couplings to for some shunting in the station, the magnets are already in prime places for this reason. I would not consider a full Parkside compliment as I have far too many wagons of admittedly varied sources and need to fill that fiddleyard! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi all, Spent last night setting wheel B-B with again varied success. I have two B-B gauges and noticed some time ago there was a difference, one is 14.4mm the other, the one I have been using is 14.54mm. However on RMWeb if you search about B-B as I did earlier you find that finescale handbuilt track should be 14.8mm. Confusing or what. I went onto C&L site to find they have an 'OO' version which I was going to order BUT there is NO technical info to be found anywhere on their 'War & Peace' Tome. So will have to ask on the phone later. Has anyone looked at the C&L site recently? Waffle and whining, its only a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2014 It all depends on what tolerances you built the track to Mike. The normal OO gauge B2B gauges probably don't allow for the finer tolerances across the crossing vees and checkrails so the14.8 gauge would be better; less slop too (it is scary just how much play there is in OO). The deeper you get into this hand built track malarkey, the more you realise how toy like both Peco track and OO are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 It all depends on what tolerances you built the track to Mike. The normal OO gauge B2B gauges probably don't allow for the finer tolerances across the crossing vees and checkrails so the14.8 gauge would be better; less slop too (it is scary just how much play there is in OO). The deeper you get into this hand built track malarkey, the more you realise how toy like both Peco track and OO are. I couldn't agree more Jason. I've always steered clear of hand-building track as I was with a group in a club which ran 'OO finescale' and got a bit tired of all the derailments and electrical faults so at home I stuck to Peco. I used Peco code 100 right up to about 2000 and the last layout I did with code 100 was Chestergate & Milne. Model Rail 121 featured the Milne section but the trackwork on the Chestergate side was very complicated with double slips galore, it ran pretty well but never got finished and is now history. In between this I built 'Bermuda Road' in Peco code 75 and could see the benefits immediately. So - when Dent was being considered I really wanted something pretty special and the sleeper spacing on Peco was always something I detested so a handbuilt version would have to be done. I really liked the look of C&L but even then I could not get flat bottom point kits so have yet again had to settle for less. I am satisfied and will be ecstatic when I get the ballasting and painting done on them. I built all the track with the C&L track gauges so I presume I should use the 14.8mm gauge. I tried to get some sense at C&L today but alas it was too difficult, yet again! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi Mike, track is still one of my shall I shant I moments, I have a whole load of Peco track and points but if I decide to do BLT then I may go down the SMP / Marcway route. If its a main line and I need loads of track I may, just may stick to Peco. Yours looks fantastic, and looking at Jason's Bacup and Jeff's original KL I keep thinking well its my last chance to do something special, but then I want trains running next week, hahaaaa. Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 8, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ting is Andy, build it to get it running quickly and you are more likely to rip it up and start again whereas take your time and you will want to keep it as it is for much longer. You could always do what Derek (sort of) did and have a couple of lengths of Peco at the back of the board so you can run stuff up and down whilst laying 'proper' track 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ting is Andy, build it to get it running quickly and you are more likely to rip it up and start again whereas take your time and you will want to keep it as it is for much longer. You could always do what Derek (sort of) did and have a couple of lengths of Peco at the back of the board so you can run stuff up and down whilst laying 'proper' track Ting is Jason you boomin right, if I go down the LESS IS MORE ROUTE then I can get some Marcway points and SMP track for the scenic section. Bodge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Mike, I agree with the advice that you and Jason have offered to Andy wholeheartedly, but due to fiscal restraints, once the half dozen lengths of SMP Code80 that I have (for c. 33 years) are used, I shall switch to Peco code 75. I will modify the sleepers as advised by Ray(Tender) and although it will never look as good as that on 'Dent' and 'Bacup', as most of my proposed model is located in an old MPD, most of the sleepers will be hidden anyway! I only hope that I can join the two types when it comes to it! Keep up the good work and I hope we can look forward to some more images this weekend. Kind regards, Jock. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Hi all I took Jasons adivce and I used c&l track and for the fiddle yards used peco and it worked well. Its now been took up while I sort out some things but I will get to build another roundy layout using the same method mark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Mike dent is looking fab keep up the good work. Ive changed my mind about a jub pic how about a black 5 on freight please lol mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Hi all, Good discussion above re trackwork, its definitely he'll go or it or erm....maybe he won't. I have just spent most of the last week getting my stock out from their boxes, CLEANING the blo*dy wheels, setting the blo*dy wheels, testing the blo*dy things over a circuit or two only to find I have too much stuff! I think I'll go off models altogether, its harder than blo*dy work! Joking aside! I have perhaps half a day left cleaning and preparing the stock then I can begin setting up some trains. I still don't know how to do the video thingy but will pose a few still's until I work it out. There is still a fair bit of fettling to attend to as its pretty awful the wheel standards in this country. I have some 30' or so year old Mainline wagons of which the wheels are on the whole okay and run pretty well, compare this to younger Hornby, Airfix, early Bachmann and dare I say Lima and its just a joke. I'm not a fan of foreign or American trains but it has to be said their standards are well above our own country's model suppliers. Pic's will follow tomorrow guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Tomorrow starts at Midnight, shall I wait up? hahhahhaha Bodge, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Tomorrow starts at Midnight, shall I wait up? hahhahhaha Bodge, No! But I see your getting better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Hi all, Did I say yesterday that I had about half a day of wheel cleaning to do! Well I only got it finished about an hour ago and I am cream crackered! First of all, I have cleaned EVERY set of wheels you see on the fiddle yard stock AND on the stock you don't see, mostly passenger as I needed the room for the freight stock as I was going along. All have been run round at least 5 circuits either on the up or down and any with de-railing problems removed for later attention, of this ALL my Dapol BLUE STAR FISH VANS are abysmal regardless of the wheel settings, obviously sh*t wheels used on these by Dapol and I have 12 of them, not very pleased about this to be honest at around £9 per wagon. As I said yesterday I have several old Mainline items which the wheels are plastic on steel axles and the B-B is still spot-on after being used and abused for a few decades, then there's the Dapol syndrome - progress!? Anyway to keep a few of you content here are some pic's of the efforts this week.... The L/H fiddleyard fan The R/H fiddleyard fan PLEASE NOTE** The trains in the fiddleyard are not set-up as 'trains' they are just how the stock was randomly opened, cleaned, set and tested. More to follow... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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