RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2012 The position of the box is fine as it will be a left-over from mechanical signalling days, It gives a good view of the important bits of the layout 1 - The ground signal for setting back off the main line would more usually be positioned to the right of the crossover 2 - The Main signal going away could be off-scene, depends on the longest train that you want to shunt. 3 - A Main signal is required on the bottom platform just by your signal box 4 - Keep the points at the end of the Engine Release worked by a Ground Frame rather than directly from the box, as otherwise there would need to be some more ground signals there. Also putting rodding along platforms in mechanical days was a bit of a s**, so best to avoid where possible. Next job is to decide the profile and route indications for each signal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Right then, think I'm getting somewhere with this now! Going away to have another tweak with my plan and see if I get it better this time. Thanks for the pointers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Ok I think I now have a plan for the point control and signal placement. From what I can understand from what advice has been given so far this should be the best compromise for operation, ease of use/understanding for myself and prototype. If I have missed/omitted anything please let me know! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2012 That's probably as good as it gets for a simple yet flexible solution. When signals are positioned on the actual layout you just need to make sure that the clearances are OK, for instance when a train is standing at a signal and another uses the crossover in front of it. I've known a couple of cases where people got it wrong in real life and the train lost a few door handles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well the plan is to get Christmas out the way, then I will have 6 weeks of bachelorhood with the Mrs in Oz. This will mean the layout boards will be set up in the house and construction shall commence! Will start a thread in Layouts when I start putting the track down. Now just to work out what signals to use and then the joy of wiring the whole lot up! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Parkinson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Eckon signals provide a good range of products including ground signals, not sure wether they do theatre boxes but I'm sure someone knows how to scratch build them depending on how authentic you want to be. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Evening all, Few quick questions if I may, 1) There are three types of lit shunt signal I have found so far, red/red white/white red/white white/white yellow/white white/white Which of these would I be looking at using? Would red lit ones be used on there own? would yellow ones be used in conjuction with a main signal? 2) On the red/yellow station approach with feather there is a subsidiary aspect for direction into the parcels line. I can't find a signal out there with one of those fitted. Would a shunt signal be a close approximation to one? Or am i barking up the wrong tree with that idea?! If I am is there anything out there that would fit the bill? Have the other signals sorted on my list now, am using the CR Signals range as they seem to carry the full range of aspects I require, unless I'm barking up wrong tree there as well! As usual any comments and help welcome. Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2012 Evening all, Few quick questions if I may, 1) There are three types of lit shunt signal I have found so far, red/red white/white red/white white/white yellow/white white/white Which of these would I be looking at using? Would red lit ones be used on there own? would yellow ones be used in conjuction with a main signal? 2) On the red/yellow station approach with feather there is a subsidiary aspect for direction into the parcels line. I can't find a signal out there with one of those fitted. Would a shunt signal be a close approximation to one? Or am i barking up the wrong tree with that idea?! If I am is there anything out there that would fit the bill? Have the other signals sorted on my list now, am using the CR Signals range as they seem to carry the full range of aspects I require, unless I'm barking up wrong tree there as well! As usual any comments and help welcome. Cheers Matt The red or yellow versions you describe are independent position light signals and don't go with a main aspect running signal. On your plan - which I think is slightly overdone in one place - all your 'green dot' signals would use the red/white version. If you wanted a bit of simplification/variety you could quite legitimately use the yellow/white version reading through the crossover where the line from the loco depot etc goes to join the parcel line (instead of a red/white version) and do away completely withe one coming from the storage siding/gantry crane sidings and assume the whole area is under the control of the Shunter/Yard Foreman who would also have the acceptance switch mentioned previously for movements coming in. The choice is yours. The subsidiary version which goes with main aspect running signals only the shows the two white lights angled at 45 degrees, the red is provided by the adjacent main aspect and I don't think anyone produces a ready-to-plant version of this although you could make one or buy a bespoke version from a firm such as Absolute Aspects https://www.absoluteaspects.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2012 For the subsidiary aspect you could use the head from a ground signal with the red position filled in. In reality subsidiary signals were often made from the same casting as the ground signal with the bottom left hole plated over. BTW the route indicator on the signal reading in will be a Theatre indicator showing letters or numbers related to the destination. The two main platforms would be 1 and 2. The Parcels line, if regularly used for trains to arrive could be called Platform 3 and also have a main route reading in. All platforms would have a shunt route in for dropping an engine onto a train standing in the platform. If a route indication were to be provided for the subsidiary aspect, it would use a stencil or miniature fibre optic alpha numeric indicator showing SDG for moves to the sidings. Moves to occupied platforms would generally use the same indications as for the main routes, although as has been aid before there were differences in regional fashions, even differences between adjacent boxes done at different times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angell328 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thanks for the info gents, Seems like the shunt signals should be easy enough to get, and the subsidiary aspect I can happy hack and bash from a shunt signal. The theater indicator I thought was a feather, but if it is an alphanumeric then that will have to come from Absolute aspects (if I am going for a working indication). Can see myself going for the working one as I don't like to make life easy for myself, and if I'm going to all this trouble to make it right shouldn't cut corners at this stage! If the subsidiary aspect is to have a single display alphanumeric then I am sure I will be able to knock up a small screen fed by an under board light source feeding a fiber. With reference the lifting of the shunt signal by the gantry line and a white/yellow in the MPD acceptance line, will that still allow full shunting moves under the control of the yard foreman? If so it would certainly make my life easy with wiring! As usual I seem to ask as many questions as are answered! Cheers Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2012 As you have the signal box on site with a clear view of what's going on in the yard, I can't see any problem with taking out the signal in the crane sidings and using a yellow ground signal at the TMD exit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2012 With reference the lifting of the shunt signal by the gantry line and a white/yellow in the MPD acceptance line, will that still allow full shunting moves under the control of the yard foreman? If so it would certainly make my life easy with wiring! Cheers Matt Yes - no problem at all Matt (it's the way large chunks of the railway were worked - it keeps the yard work under the control of the person in charge on the spot and reduces the cost of the signalling installation and its maintenance by removing a signal which basically has little reason for its existence when you think through the logic of the Rules applicable to shunting movements). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2012 Well the plan is to get Christmas out the way, then I will have 6 weeks of bachelorhood with the Mrs in Oz. This will mean the layout boards will be set up in the house and construction shall commence! Cheers Matt You just need to make sure you get the dates right & the house cleaned up, BEFORE she rings you from the airport & expects to be picked up! Been there, done that - except it wasn't the airport or 6 weeks. Messy, in more ways than one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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