Hornby Star Class

[Ian Hargrave]

It is,of course,82A....Bristol Bath Road,just off Temple Meads station,the last home of the Stars

[Coach bogie]

Watched 'Titfield Thunderbolt' tonight for the umpteenth time except that this time is was recorded in HDD on my shiny new Panny box. Genuine GWR liveried coaches to be seen, which folk might note carried cream nothing like BR cream. At the end of the movie a splendid 'Star' is in the background looking as clean as locos generally did in the early 1950s, though nothing preserved clean. Couldn't catch the name of the 'Star' though. Good to see Hornby's BR version is now available, as it is one GWR loco I have been tempted to buy. Hornby's milky green, which always reminds me of locos that have been in prolonged outdoor storage, will have to be sorted though.  

 

Some time back, I did a  picture grab and played around with it in Photoshop and, as B15nac states it is 4056 Prcess Margaret. The director moved it about a bit as boths sides are shown, drivers side when 4056 parked on the town side of the fish dock earlier on (not convinced that siding was cleared for red route engines), then on the shed side when on the same line as 5036 Lyonshall Castle. There is another Star on shed, parked behind a Hall when 1401 arrives at BTM on the first day of 'private' service.

 

I did the same with the Last Journey and was able to identify many of the engines, also noteable for frequent appearance of articulated stock, especially the diners.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Gruffalo]

And now some advice please contributors:

 

I am more than chuffed that Madam Gruff has surpassed herself this year and handed me a Star as my Christmas present. I will operate it on a DCC layout so will be installing a chip but the question i would pose to you is:

 

Which one? I am unsure whether to go with sound or just to stick with a decent decoder (I am currently using TCS M1-KA ones). I have seen the recent post of Neal Ball's Castle on his Warncliffe layout and though nice, the video clip lacks depth to the sound with a speaker in a larger tender. I am leaning more and more towards sound but will need to watch the overall power demand as I am running everything on an NCE PowerCab.

 

Any and all advice gratefully received!

[Neal Ball]

And now some advice please contributors:

 

I am more than chuffed that Madam Gruff has surpassed herself this year and handed me a Star as my Christmas present. I will operate it on a DCC layout so will be installing a chip but the question i would pose to you is:

 

Which one? I am unsure whether to go with sound or just to stick with a decent decoder (I am currently using TCS M1-KA ones). I have seen the recent post of Neal Ball's Castle on his Warncliffe layout and though nice, the video clip lacks depth to the sound with a speaker in a larger tender. I am leaning more and more towards sound but will need to watch the overall power demand as I am running everything on an NCE PowerCab.

 

Any and all advice gratefully received!

 

As per the PM I would definitely go for Sound..... 

 

I use the Guagemaster Prodigy and in fact had three sound fitted locos running the day after shooting those video clips. Castle; class 47 and class 52. To be honest, I didn't even think about the power demand!

 

Have fun in whatever the choice is.

[Mike Riley]

Gruffalo, you don't need to worry about the power demand with a Powercab.  I have mine set to show amps instead of time and it rarely goes over 0.3A.  That is with several DCC locos on the track and coach lighting.  And a sound chip takes liitle more than a normal chip - sound doesn't use much power.

 

I recommend a zimo 645 and suggest trying the Digitrains (Paul Chetter) 4MT sound.

 

Mike

[Coach bogie]

Here is Glastonbury Abbey as purchased on Christmas Eve. Still to many spokes.

 

 

4,000 gallon tender one of a short number constructed for the Kings with twin fillers .Investment in a new tooling for this tender gives a serious clue to 2015 announcements??

 

 

Here is what mine will become with the top of a Bachmann Collett 3,500 gallon tender from a scrap 2251, prior to back dating to late 1930's condition and a new name and number.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

 

4,000 gallon tender one of a short number constructed for the Kings with twin fillers .Investment in a new tooling for this tender gives a serious clue to 2015 announcements??

 

 

Are you saying we'll be getting a new King in the 2015 range then Mike ?

 

Maybe we should try and get Simon Kohler to attend RMweb 'live' in September.Get all the gossip.

 

Seriously though what name is that one having.The factory number looks askew to me too.

[Coppercap]

The factory number looks askew to me too.

 

Looks 'straight' compared to the cab, but the complete cab's tipping forwards. Isn't this a common 'feature' many of these Stars have?

[The Great Bear]

 

4,000 gallon tender one of a short number constructed for the Kings with twin fillers .Investment in a new tooling for this tender gives a serious clue to 2015 announcements??

 

 

That would be the charitable interpretation...

 

To be honest from most viewing angles (for photos or if seated) if the fillers are the only things "wrong" it wouldn't really show up. And I until reading the info here in my ignorance I might not have questioned it anyway

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[The Stationmaster]

That would be the charitable interpretation...

 

To be honest from most viewing angles (for photos or if seated) if the fillers are the only things "wrong" it wouldn't really show up. And I until reading the info here in my ignorance I might not have questioned it anyway

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

 

Previous discussion was unable to settle if any of the 20 tenders built like that lasted in that form until the BR era, or even past WWII.  And it doesn't look too easy to alter the top of the tender tank alas.  Is the reverser rod  & housing correct for a late condition 'Star'?  

 

BTW as far as the 'King' is concerned - wait & see

[coachmann]

Were the 4000 gallon tenders introduced with the 47XX 2-8-0s in 1919? If so, I wonder why it took until the 'Kings' were built in 1927 to discover the water bags would not reach the central filler?

[Craigw]

Were the 4000 gallon tenders introduced with the 47XX 2-8-0s in 1919? If so, I wonder why it took until the 'Kings' were built in 1927 to discover the water bags would not reach the central filler?

 

Coach,

 

The 47XX entered traffic fitted with 3500 gallon tenders. The first of the Collett 400 gallon tenders were lot A113 which were delivered between September 1926 and July 1928. This is the lot built with the twin fillers although according to the Finney notes there were other differences fro the later tenders.

 

Regards,

 

Craigw

[KGV]

I was fortunate enough to get my Lode Star just in time fro Christmas (Certificate number 558).

 

I travelled to Swindon to pick it up from STEAM on the 23rd and went via Great Western Way through the site of the C&W works.  I was heart-broken to see that No. 24 shop (which was between North Star Avenue and the Hawksworth Industrial Estate) has been demolished since I last went that way (many years ago).  This was one of my favourite reminders of the works and was the largest remnant of the C&W Works and one of the only surviving works buildings of the 20th century.  The site is now a wasteland, which is so familiar for much of the works site for so many years, and now so many of the buildings have gone.  So much for the "Works Conservation Area" which was too small and focussed mostly on the pre-1900 buildings.

 

Anyway, I digress ...

 

The Star is superb.  It is by far the most expensive model that I have every purchased (by nearly 50%), but I am happy with it.  I would not have really noticed the cab handrail; the 12-spoke wheels are a little off putting.  The lining, cab and tender detail are great.  My only real complaint is that the footplate is too high and about 6mm above the tender floor.  Anyone managed to lower theirs?

Edited December 27, 2013 by KGV

[Miss Prism]

 

My only real complaint is that the footplate is too high and about 6mm above the tender floor.

 

??? Which footplate are you referring to, and what do you regard as the tender 'floor'?

[robmcg]

I think he means the fall-plate.

[Coach bogie]

What a Friday afternoon model Glastonbury has turned out to be. Just noticed from my pics that the cab has been fitted in the wrong position. In trying to correct, every tiny little bit of detail has fallen/broken off -the joys of super detailed rtr.

 

Just had the chassis running in, after switching the wires to the motor to correct the polarity, and the drivers side front crankpin unwound, locked against the crosshead which then split into two

and through the slide bars out of their sockets.

 

If I hadn't already started 'personalising' it, Glastonbury would be going back. At least if I repair it, I know it will be sorted out properly.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[gwrrob]

What a Friday afternoon model Glastonbury has turned out to be. Just noticed from my pics that the cab has been fitted in the wrong position. In trying to correct, every tiny little bit of detail has fallen/broken off -the joys of super detailed rtr.

 

Just had the chassis running in, after switching the wires to the motor to correct the polarity, and the drivers side front crankpin unwound, locked against the crosshead which then split into two

and through the slide bars out of their sockets.

 

If I hadn't already started 'personalising' it, Glastonbury would be going back. At least if I repair it, I know it will be sorted out properly.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

You're more patient than me.It would have gone straight back,shortage or not.Simon K will deny there's no assembly problems if 'we' continue to bail them out.

[NigelP]

Thanks everybody for the information regarding seats in the cab (and the link to Lode Star at Steam). I forgot I spent some time in the cab of Lode Star last year (without my camera). Looking at an ancient postcard of the inside of a Star (Knight of the Thistle, it still had the small porthole windows, so late 1920's - early 1930's or earlier) with the old-type reverser there does appear to be a seat on the drivers side, but a box-seat on the fireman's side. Very simple pipework/valves compared to the Hornby model. Which prompted me to look at the inside of Lode Star and Caerphilly Castle (again from Steam). As far as I can see identical, which is not surprising considering the rebuilds the Stars went through. 

 

Some other points for those who want to back-date or up-date the Hornby models: Front cylinder housing had curved sides from 1909 onward (the "Kings", nos. 4021-30, snifter valves appear to be absent); Top-feed was fitted to numbers 4041-45 from new (1913); Bogie brakes were removed between 1923-5; 4045 and 4022 were coupled to the 8-wheel tender from the Great Bear in 1936; 4043 was coupled with the Collett 8-wheel tender (1936?); 4058 and 4062 were attached to Hawsworth flat sided tenders for a time (?); 4000, 4013, 4022, 4035, 4038, 4042, 4043, 4049, 4054, 4056, 4060, 4061, 4062, and 4062 (at least) had 4000 gallon tenders. Probably many others as well (the limit of my photographic evidence). Nice photograph of the top of one of these tenders on page 233 of Russell, GWR Locomotives, volume 2. Two filler doors, either side; Speedometer fitted from 1937 to RHS rear wheel. Lots of other details (steam pipes, etc.) were covered earlier on in this topic by others more knowledgeable than me. O.S. Nock (The GWR Stars, Castles & Kings, Part 2, 1930-1965) has on pages 151-152 details of when built, when superheated, type of outside steam pipes (Elbow or Castle), conversion to Castle Class, when withdrawn, when renamed, and which members of the class had half-cone boilers between 1909 and 1921.

 

Of interest of course are Glastonbury Abbey, built in 1922, it had elbow steam pipes fitted in July 1949 (one of the few Abbeys to have steam pipes) and was withdrawn in March 1957, and Knight of the Grand Cross, built in 1908, super-heated in 1910, it had outside elbows in May 1931 and was withdrawn in April 1950. 

 

I have had issues with Hornby fall plates before (same problem on the 28xx). My solution was to reduce the distance between the tender and the engine, remove the fall plate and fit a new fall plate (chequer plate plastic sheet) to the tender rather than the engine. Angle the sides in the cab slightly to allow it to go around curves and fix it so that it is proud of the cab floor by around 0.5mm to allow for track undulations.

 

BCDR

[Coach bogie]

 4000, 4013, 4022, 4035, 4038, 4042, 4043, 4049, 4054, 4056, 4060, 4061, 4062, and 4062 (at least) had 4000 gallon tenders.

 

BCDR

 

 4000 only had a 4,000gallon tender after rebuilding as a Castle. North Star always non standard and had a higher running plate than any other Star or Castle.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

Glastonbury chassis all back together now. Note for everyone. The crosshead is a two part assembly with a rectangular male-female friction held plug/socket holding two halves together with slide bar sandwiched between. I have strengthened this one with superglue in the socket as it came apart several times during reconstruction.

 

Cab is now vertical and not at a forward angle as previous shots. There is a small vertical gap between cab and firebox, but this is now filled. Lost several fittings but they have been reattached. Smokebox lamp bracket has gone forever, but this was never going to last and a metal one has now been fitted. Fall plate broke off but I will make a new one when the Collett 3,500 gallon tender is finished. I had already removed the cabside handrail but I will wait until I finally decide on the name before replacing. I have an excellent Soole shot of Glastonbury at Bristol in 1936 so I may stick with the name, just replace the plates. Luckily, it was always going to need a repaint back into GWR livery so I cannot take issue here.

 

Note quite what I had planned for this afternoon. Thank heavens for the sales giving me a free afternoon whilst the family were out buying things they don't need with money they haven't got.

 

I am usually defensive of Hornby  but this one was shockingly bad.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[KGV]

I think he means the fall-plate.

 

Yes, Thanks robmcg that is what I was trying to describe.  It just seems a little high and obvious as shown in this image (of a forthcoming release) ...  along with the spaghetti of wires but I guess nothing can be done about that ...

 

 

If it could be lowered by a few millimetres then I'd be much happier.

[robmcg]

Glastonbury chassis all back together now. Note for everyone. The crosshead is a two part assembly with a rectangular male-female friction held plug/socket holding two halves together with slide bar sandwiched between. I have strengthened this one with superglue in the socket as it came apart several times during reconstruction.

 

Cab is now vertical and not at a forward angle as previous shots. There is a small vertical gap between cab and firebox, but this is now filled. Lost several fittings but they have been reattached. Smokebox lamp bracket has gone forever, but this was never going to last and a metal one has now been fitted. Fall plate broke off but I will make a new one when the Collett 3,500 gallon tender is finished. I had already removed the cabside handrail but I will wait until I finally decide on the name before replacing. I have an excellent Soole shot of Glastonbury at Bristol in 1936 so I may stick with the name, just replace the plates. Luckily, it was always going to need a repaint back into GWR livery so I cannot take issue here.

 

Note quite what I had planned for this afternoon. Thank heavens for the sales giving me a free afternoon whilst the family were out buying things they don't need with money they haven't got.

 

I am usually defensive of Hornby  but this one was shockingly bad.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I am filled with admiration for your forbearance. I too am normally defensive about Hornby, and have Glastonbury and an LNER Sandringham B17 in LNER Green just despatched today from Liverpool, so will be rather nervous opening the box!

[robmcg]

Yes, Thanks robmcg that is what I was trying to describe.  It just seems a little high and obvious as shown in this image (of a forthcoming release) ...  along with the spaghetti of wires but I guess nothing can be done about that ...

 

 

If it could be lowered by a few millimetres then I'd be much happier.

 

In the past I have broken these Hornby fall-plates off by downward pressure and re-glued them with  the same area where the 'hinge' was and a toothpick or cardboard strip under the side over the tender body while the polystyrene cement sets, to leave a small running gap. Quite fiddly but works.

 

Either that or do what NigelP suggests a couple of messages ago with a piece of card or checker plate plastic sheet glued to the tender front with easements for the sides.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

[Coach bogie]

Just been looking at the Abbey series again and to be accurate, the Hornby model is not suitable. The Abbey series had plain splashers, eg. no rivets or beading as per Hornby model. I need another name for mine now. Prince and King series looking favourite at present.

 

All running fine now. Just need to finish the Collett 3,500 tender.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[cary hill]

Here's my "Glastonbury Abbey" received this morning:

 

 

1. No dropped off detail bits in the box. Check.

 

 

2. Hornby Xmas bogie wheel spoke bonus. Check.

 

 

3. Assembly not too bad cab and numberplate fitted levelish. Check. Now for the other side in detail

 

 

4. Cabside horizontal mouldy handrail looks a bit dodgy

 

 

5. It looks as if a proactive employee has heard the complaints re the moulded handrails and started to remove the offending items with a blunt scalpel but run out of time.He should have corrected the non vertical tender handrail instead.

 

Now do I send it back?

Edited December 28, 2013 by cary hill