NigelP

Airfix on the brain (or air, more likely, given my advancing years). Triang "Magnadhesion" it was. Reportedly runs better on steel rather than N/S rail (although both are magnetic, so another myth?). Which I keep meaning to try, as nickel does oxidize slowly and the oxide coating is non-conductive .The reason (I have read) why we all need to go over the track on a regular basis with the cleaning rubber. I suspect dust, dirt and oil are more likely. I had another look at the K's tender last night. I'll start backdating to an earlier version of water filler and attach some coal rails. Prototypical even with the springs on the frames.Shame to waste all that solder. Given the variety of tenders running in the early 1900's I suspect most combinations of engines and tenders would have been found lurking on a quiet branch line. Nigel

Looks like the latest 4-4-0 offering from Bachmann suffers from the same problem as their City - 3 bogie clerestory carriages and it's reached it's limit, and that's on the flat. No room in the body for weight either. Same problem with Hornby's Dean Single offering. The real things pulled 6-8 carriages without any problems. Airfix were onto something with their magnetic wheels and steel rails. Nigel

I finally got around to making a start on the tender last week. It was soldered it up using 100°C solder, although with the castings being 2mm thick it turned out to be more like welding. It's a solid lump, weighs a lot, and nothing is ever going to drop off. A fair amount of filing and cutting was required. There are still gaps around the coal well sides that need filling. The tender mushroom air vents were not that great, new ones will have to be sourced. The side coal sheets were removed, as I wanted to backdate it to around 1900-1905. It has a water fountain pipe for the water return from the crosshead pump, a hangover from the broad-gauge tenders that disappeared with the advent of steam injectors. I was not happy with the domed water filler and separate water access cover. Looking at Russell (GWR engines volume 1) and my Hornby Dean Goods a half-lozenge dome/filler would appear to be more appropriate for the period I am modeling. I also made-up some axle frames using a Branchlines etch. This comes with brake gear and a white metal water scoop. No 2mm bearings, but some 2mm brass tubing is supplied that holds the axles and act as frame spacers. I was just about to start bashing the Hornby Dean Goods tender for the dome /filler when I remembered I had two Dapol ex-Airfix City of Truro kits in the spares box. These are a useful source of bits and pieces, brake standards, vacuum tubes, etc., and the kit contains a Dean tender with the lozenge dome/filler, which just needs some hinges. Looking at the kits, I realized that I could in fact do a representation of a tender with the axle springs above the frames. Not quite accurate, as the tender body would have been narrower. There is a nice photo of one of these (with coal rails) behind a Dean outside frame 0-6-0 goods in 1904 on page 76 of Russell (volume 1). I removed the springs, hangers and axle boxes from the sides of one kit using a fine flexible saw. The frames were cleaned-up using a flat file and #600-emery paper. I also removed the coal sheets and the handrail moldings from the front, sides and ends of the tender. The axle boxes and lower hanger bushes were glued back onto the frames after cleaning-up; for the springs I used the driving wheel springs (21/2 per kit, the two half springs were glued together), which were glued onto the body with a small styrene spacer at the back. The spacer will be removed when the glue has set at the bottom of the springs. I used some styrene rod to represent the hangers. The tender was put together using styrene glue. I fabricated the tender coal rails from brass rod (0.8mm diameter) soldered-up flat and bent to shape. They are fixed in place with CAA. It passes my QC standard (i.e., it looks OK from 3 feet away). Needs some tidying-up of the rails, and some 1200 grit on the body work. This was certainly more cost effective than a brass tender kit (£6.50 for the City kit and $3.69 for the brass rod versus £40.00+). It now looks like I have 2 tenders and one chassis. I’m going with the Dapol tender for the moment, if only to keep the weight down. I don't need to get some balance (as described above for the 32xx) but I’ll find a use for the white metal one. That is it for the moment. Next up will be the axle bearing tubes; the wheels and axles (Alan Gibson, EM gauge), the water scoop and rod, the brake rods and brakes; and some handrails using bass rod. I have some Maygib Dean tapered sprung buffers from the spares box as well. I need to source those mushroom vents, and fabricate a water fountain pipe for the Dapol tender. Plus I’ll need one of those communicating/warning bells on the side of the tender and a bracket for the line in the tender when it was used with passenger stock (like the Dean Goods, these engines were in fact designated mixed-traffic). A bell from a GWR autocoach should suite. I have some back in Montréal, so that will have to wait a few weeks. Nigel

Just remembered, the Dean 1661 class 0-6-0 pannier used the same frames. The body from the Hornby 27xx class is pretty close. Although just using the frames from the Keyser kit is a bit wasteful. Etched ones in N/S would be more appropriate, so I'm drawing some up, as well as some for the Stella 35xx (help fill the etch sheet). I may use them on the current kit build, as those spring holders on the W/M ones are a bit fragile for my sausage fingers. Plus they're a poor fit on the running plate. Nigel

Interesting conversion. I've only got Russell Volume 1 to hand, so the usual disclaimer. Several things struck me. The 35xx sand boxes were further back. That big bearing box for the front wheels and the over-slung springs on the frames looks to be more Dean Single than Metro. Were the chimneys different? I think new frames from the front driving wheels forward are going to be required, as the front wheels were 3'8" in diameter compared to the driving wheels of 5'2" diameter (which means a different axle height), and there is an integral frame step between the front wheels and front driving wheels. I'll be interested in seeing how the conversion goes. I was at one point contemplating a conversion to the earlier Dean Outside Frame Goods with an S2B boiler and the dome further forward. Not difficult, but what do I do with the B4 boiler and firebox? Scrap white metal! Nigel

Dean Outside Frame 0-6-0 Goods Next episode in the kit build - the cab interior. Having decided to have a more detailed backhead I finally decided on a 14xx backhead (Dapol detailing component) from Mainly Trains. Not quite prototypical, as it has a down-and-under regulator and is fitted for autocoach operation, but it's a lot better than the original K's (which sat too high). I also ordered an etch of a reverser lever (Ian Rice) again from Mainly Trains. The bits finally arrived on Saturday (we stll have Saturday delivery in the US), so a start was made over the weekend. The white metal backhead casting is quite deep and so the remainder of the backhead was filed flush with the front cab sheet. I also removed what remained of the cab floor, and filed the sides flush. I soldered a support from brass sheet to the frames under the cab floor and between the wheels so that it was flush with the body floor. The new floor will rest on this. The splashers are going to be a bit wider than the prototype (a combination of old Romford wheels and slighter under gauge EM) and the cab floor will be slightly narrower, but there's still room for the volute springs. I then did a rough test of a new cab floor made from 0.005" brass sheet (cut with the tin-snips after first drawing it up in CorelDraw) and the backhead propped in place. I think it looks OK, so the next step will be to make one up using the jewelers saw with the splasher sides soldered to the floor. The backhead still needs to be slightly higher, I'll go with 0.01" brass for the floor, 0.005" for the splasher sides and tops. I soldered up the reverser lever as well, nice looking piece of kit. That's it for the moment, as i need to work on the narrow gauge Baldwin. Pictures tell the story. Nigel

Hi Jonathan, Thanks for the details. I really must try those High Level gearboxes. Re derailing. I've had this problem after converting Hornby Castle Railroad versions to pivot post rather than arm. I found that if the leading wheels were made slightly under gauge they would lead the rear wheels into curves (and through frogs). From memory 14.3mm and 14.5mm for OO. If the front wheels made it the rear ones should. Do some experimenting, as this was for the Castle. I also found with the Hornby 28xx that there was to much play at the pivot of the pony arm. Small piece of styrene bar was all it took to reduce the forward/aft movement. Plus a liberal amount of liquid lead (use epoxy not CAA) or lead sheet to give some mass to the whole affair. Use a fulcrum to ensure a central COG for a bogie. Nigel

Hi Mike, I have a box of these kits - that half-cone boiler is useful for many engines (Aberdare comes to mind given the scarcity of the K's kit, plus Atbaras, Birds, Flowers). I've already had a look at seeing whether it would suit, especially given the floor and splashers already in the kit (wrong wheel diameter of course - 5'2" vs 6'8.5"). The backhead is problematic, screw reverser and down and under regulator' and 1960's moldings. Now I've opened up the floor the floor/splashers are worth investigating. I'm heading south tomorrow for 2 months, I packed a couple of kits just in case. However If Alan Gibson Workshop has a 517 Belpaire backhead available I'll go with that, as it's the same as a Dean 0-6-0. Filed all of the detail off today, no going back! Nigel

Hi Jonathan, That was enjoyable, what's the engine/motor/gearbox? Original wheels? Any bodywork modifications? Interrupt by all means. Progress today (and likely to be it at this end of the engine until I get a new backhead): Cut out the floor, bit wider than the Hornby/Mainline because of the increased width from the EM gauge, mocked up with brass sheet to new floor level. Backhead is in a sorry state, I will file flat and reduce the thickness by at least 50% and overlay with the new one. I need to make some inside wheel splashers and get them soldered on, 0.01" brass, the plan at the moment is to have the floor on the frames (wood planks eventually), splashers on the cab. I'll also need a representation of some volute springs as well. Nigel

Hi Castle, Thanks for the identification of the bits and pieces. Very useful. K's compromised on the backhead. It is higher than it should be, probably to accommodate the increase in the floor height, and nowhere near protypical. Hence very little space between the top of the backhead and the roof for the gauges. The 14xx backhead had crossed my mind, but it's not even close (no clacks as it was top-feed, later up-and-over regulator). Just as much work as what I currently have. The other possibility is the backhead from the Hornby Dean Goods, which is actually prototypically faithful. East Kent Models do not have a body for one (they're going out of business by the way so get any pieces while you can) so maybe the favorite auction house as I would get the reverser lever as well. Alan Gibson Workshop is more likely (Colin's 517 backhead, sold I think as a "Dean backhead", he doesn't sell the 517 kit at the moment, but there are several other parts that look interesting). Having a "proper" backhead however will mean lowering the floor, something I didn't want to do (new floor, wheel splasher sides), although If I'm replacing the backhead why not! With a section cut in the floor i can just file the backhead flat to the cab sheet. Some delicate butchery would be involved. The interior of the cab on this model is very visible due to the shallow depth, so some work to get it looking presentable is I think worthwhile. Nigel

Perusing FJ Roche (Historic Locomotive Drawings, Ian Allen, 1969 I think) there are 2 pages of GWR fittings dated 1948 (the book also contains Southern, LNER, LMS) -chimneys, valve covers, cab fittings. There is a drawing of the GWR firedoor, quite a complicated piece of gear with that articulated lever system. I was being far too simplistic. Actual dimensions and what it should look like in 4mm scale. The levers scale down to 0.5mm width (1.5" real-life). Too fine to solder. I'll use styrene bars for the moment, and add the drawing to my list of things to get etched. I had an enjoyable 15 minutes deconstructing the backhead, positive modeling moment of the day. I left an impression of where things were. The round object and lever on the right was in fact the brake, no idea what the dial above was supposed to be.Same goes for the left hand side one (which I left for the moment pending some research). Clacks? Any suggestions welcome. Nigel

I like them as well - I have some of them in stock - pannier window grills, lamp irons, etc., but not the levers. A lot cheaper than a dedicated casting, and several types as well. I'll need one for the 14xx to 517 conversion. I did check out some GWR Dean backhead castings - as far as I can see all with the same error of having the regulator down, not up and over. As this is 4mm I'm only doing representations, O scale is a different issue, especially if the backhead is visible. Should have done this before assembly of course, working on it from above will be interesting. Nigel

Spent some time looking for a lever reverser this morning. Mainly Trains do an etch (£2.45, more my price range and I do need some other bits and pieces for other projects) of one with 2 types of reversing levers and some different regulator levers, which I now realize I will need. Plus hand-wheels, turncocks, etc. Looking at pictures of backheads from the the 1900's of the Dean Goods, and therefore almost certainly the Dean 0-6-0 outside frame 0-6-0, which was being built at the same time, it had a reversing lever of the long type, and the regulator lever was the "up and over" version, not the "down" version as detailed on the K's backhead. Nice picture of a cab of a Dean Goods in 1914 in "The Banbury & Cheltenham Direct Railway" by Jenkins, Brown & Parkhouse, on page 104. Derailed and tender-less, so a good view of the interior of the cab. One reason why seats were not provided when built, as the driver had to stand up and straddle the reversing lever to control the regulator. Looks like some filing and remodeling is called for.The Dean Goods at Swindon shows the driver straddling the reversing lever and a nice Churchward-type seat which could not be used when driving unless the driver had 6-foot long arms. The pipework would also appear to be different to that in 1914. One of the issues when trying to model cabs, etc., is that final BR condition of preserved locomotives may not reflect original condition. I'm having the same issue with a kit of a Baldwin tank engine in O16.5. I'm redoing the firebox door and handles as well, I have some styrene strip of finer dimensions and some styrene rivets somewhere in the spares box. I also noted that the K's instructions (a misnomer if ever there was!) show the cylinder head cover plate below the smokebox door inverted. Which of course I found out after putting it on. Russell has a nice picture of a 2361 class face on which helped. All in all a "one step forward, two steps back" sort of morning. Found some clack valves for the backhead though in the spares box, so not totally wasted. NigelP

Worked a bit yesterday on the backhead. Various bits were cut from scrap brass, filed to shape, and the door handles soldered up from 1/32" x 1/62 brass bar (smallest I could find). Glued in place using CAA. The picture is cruel, I haven't cleaned or polished the metal yet, looks fine from 3 feet with the cab roof on. The cab floor is soldered on underneath. I'll add brass piping to the gauges and levers after painting, plus some decal dials from the drawings of FJ Roche. I may have a go at a representation of the reversing lever, having seen the price of a casting - with postage I'm looking at at least £7.50, and I have a draw full of scrap bits of brass. It will need ATC gear as well (gong and siren box) as it's intended to go on a layout based on the Fairford Branch Line. I was in two minds whether to lower the cab floor, but decided against it, as it forms a structural box with the sides and roof of the cab. It will just need a crew with short legs! NigelP

I thought some before and after shots of the redundant boiler slot would be of interest. I used a small piece of 0.005" brass sheet curved to match the inner radius of the boiler, friction fit, liberal splash of no-residue liquid flux, and then filled the slot in with low temp solder making sure i didn't touch the white metal. Fine file then a rub down with #600 wet and dry, the slight depression is now filled with model filler. I'm currently looking at the backhead and that gap where the firebox doors and handle should be. Fabricate from brass or use the backhead doors and handle off a Dapol (Airfix) City of Truro kit? I'm leaning towards brass at the moment. NigelP

I prefer Truman's desk sign - "The buck stops here", or Reagan - "Trust, but verify" (often paraphrased by accountants as "In god we trust, everything else requires back-up"). Then most of the people would be happy most of the time. Rivet counters excepted. NigelP

No arguments about the cost of basic carriages - running some Hawksworths in maroon behind the Abbey will set you back £21-30 each at the moment, as they're heavily discounted from RSP. Looking at one of them however shows that all the handrails and handles are molded, and there are some noticeable depressions in the paneling that shouldn't be there (tool and or possibly molding issues). No real improvement in fact when compared with the old Airfix/Dapol/Hornby Centenary carriages (fine printing excepted). However, a highly detailed and protoypical carriage such as a LNER teak sleeper is £50. Hornby have a Railroad Flying Scotsman A1 to pull them at £61 (1:1 ratio) or Bachmann have an A2 at £89 (discounted from £150, ratio 1:1.5 or 1:3). Hmm. Somethings wrong here. Hornby railroad "teak' carriages at £16 each (ratio 3:1) anyone? The point was (is) that a £100 locomotive does not have the same quality as a £40-50 carriage. That Hattons can discount so deeply (often 50%) also speaks to what they actually cost to make in China. Not a lot! QC (if it's doing it's job) and QA cost money. The client (Hornby) sets the acceptance standards, not the factory. Whatever QC there is would (or should) be to Hornby's specification. Higher standards = tighter manufacturing specifications/more rejects = higher unit price. There are I think 2 issues to the Stars. Firstly, less than 100% fidelity to the prototype where comprises and or expediency will necessarily occur (riveted wheel splashers on an Abbey or the use of Castle cylinders are two examples) is not surprising given the many variations in the Stars as a class and the desire to accommodate as many modelers as possible (read more sales). Secondly, fitness. Cabs that don't fit properly, poor printing, gouges in moldings, crooked number plates, etc. are design/QC issues. That some models appear to be fine (as reported in this thread) points to poor assembly and an inconsistent or low standard of QC rather than any major design issues. Although using molded cab handrails at a prototypical angle and then expecting the printing to be fine even although they get in the way of the printing head speaks to a design issue. I have a feeling that better QC acceptance limits, and the Chinese do know a thing or two about QC (the same factories can produce high quality RTR models to a price), although it would increase the price, would pay dividends for Hornby in the future. I suspect that part of the problem however is that Hornby is not a major client when compared to the likes of Atlas, Athearn, Bachmann USA or Walthers. OO is a small niche market when compared to HO. Not much clout when compared to the American market players. In which case Hornby should perhaps be looking elsewhere for its manufacturing and where it can better control its products. NigelP

I suspect speedometers were installed from 1937 on when at the works for a refit. The earliest I could find was 4043 Prince Henry in June 1949. Steam Index (http://www.steamindex.com/locotype/gwrloco.htm#4000) shows the following articles: Speedometers Programme extended to Saint and Star classes. MORE speedometers for G.W.R. locomotives. Rly Gaz., 1937, 67, 996. SPEEDOMETERS for Great Western Railway Locomotives. Engineering, 1937,144, 661. SPEEDOMETERS on the G.W.R. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1937, 43, 399. None of which I have of course and the nearest library likely to have them 3000 miles away. Anybody have these? Plus an interesting little story of a Saint ("Lady of Lyons") doing somewhere between 120-135 mph on a running-in turn in 1932. NigelP

Having read some of the comments regarding QC (or lack thereof) and looked at some of the remedial work necessary on Queen B. above, I suspect the problem is a bit deeper than poor manufacturing/assembly on some of the models. Poor design at the start such that components are not produced to a uniform quality, do not assemble easily and correctly (leaning cabs) or cannot be lined properly (because of molded hand rails getting in the way of the printer) as discussed in this thread are probably at the root of the issue. Not quite GIGO. Comment has been made on the fact that a decent carriage is now £40.00+. Looking at some of my old receipts for carriages and 4-6-0 engines, the ratio used to be around £20.00:£100.00 (RSP or discount, 1:5, give or take a bit). On that basis a decent engine properly designed such that it matches the quality of the carriages it's supposed to pull should now be at least £200.00. Ixion went down this road some years ago (and then got out of it) with their N-scale Manors - in my opinion superb models, great engineering, they took their time over the tooling, and it cost almost £125.00 (with carriages at £25.00, and that must be 4 years ago now). Putting together a decent 4-6-0 engine from a kit now runs to at least £150.00-£200.00 (the wheel set alone is at least £48.00), and that's without the time it takes to put it together and then paint and decorate. Add DCC sound and it's getting on for £300.00. RTR should mean just that, and I don't think anybody should have to resort to correcting what are often obvious errors (the riveted splasher covers on the Abbey is one example) that should have been dealt with at the design stage). Building to a price often has serious consequences. Yes, some of the detail on RTR models is fantastic, but is too often done at the expense of getting it correct overall. Leaning cabs, crooked number plates, wavy lining, extra rivets (field day for the counters!), etc., should not be acceptable. I can do that for nothing (and often do), I wouldn't pay somebody to do it for me. Hornby also took the decision to go down the "Railroad" pathway with a deliberate lack of detail (no rivets, molded hand rails, previous generation motors) at a reduced cost. I bought a number of the Llantillo Castles for £50.00 each simply because they would serve as the basis for bashing into something else (the chassis works well with a Saint body on top for example - I'm currently doing Lady of the Lake with curved frames). I wonder if this cost-saving approach has become overall policy. "Design Clever" seems to me to be "Railroad" in another guise. I model in HO as well as 4mm, $150.00-$350.00 for a decent diesel, never mind a steam engine, is quite acceptable. Out of interest I checked on of the smaller HO companies (Bowser Mfg.) that specialize in diesels (and who use the same factories as everybody else in China). First off, for their latest project - a Canadian GMD SD-40-2 - they are calling for input. I quote: "Canadian Model Railroaders. Bowser is designing this model Canadian. We are not making the EMD version and just making a few changes. This is designed from the ground up as GMD built. Here is the second set of engineering drawings for our all new GMD SD 40-2. I am asking for any input about these designs. If you spot something we have missed or have incorrect please contact me at bowser@bowser-trains.com. If you do have corrections please include proof." How refreshing, a manufacturer who wants to make sure they have got it right. And are not simply reusing existing tooling with a few tweaks. Secondly, this manufacturer supplies 2 levels of detail. Again, from their website: "Traditional Line: Basic model, no extra details, mostly unnumbered, all without sound, all powered units have 8 pin plugs for easy DCC installations" and "Executive Line: Ready to Run, super detailed, numbered, with DCC and Sound or DC with an 8 pin plug for easy DCC module installation." No messing around removing numbers and replacing them. If you want to detail, get the traditional model (which I have often done), RTR spend the bit extra and do nothing. And they sell powered chassis if required (with or without DCC sound). And they carry spare bits as well, and not just for their latest models. Yes you can get a steam engine from Bachmann Spectrum for $100.00 (discount, DCC ready, toy train market), but for a serious level of (correct) detail expect to pay $400.00-$550.00 from the likes of Broadway Imports, Athearn Genesis or MTH (DCC sound). With the current exchange rates a decent engine with sound should be around £250.00-£330.00. Without sound £175.00-£225.00. The Star is currently selling for £108.00 discounted (Hattons, although why the Abbey should be almost £20 more expensive beats me), Hornby must have decided that the UK market will tolerate manufacturing to this cost with commensurate detail, quality and control issues. I think we all appreciate you get what you pay for in China, and that includes QC. Another £25.00 would probably have changed everything Look for a bargain at around £65.00-£75.00 in around 6 months from now. I see a WW-1 Star in unlined green (no wavy lines at least) and no outside steam pipes and with 3 long clerestory carriages (old tooling) will be coming along. Worth buying the set just for the clerestory carriages at less than £10.00 each. I'm actually tempted, given my modeling period of 1900-1915, although there would be that conversion to EM gauge, which on past experience would involve some serious work on the engine....... NigelP

Nice piece of back-dating work, especially the tender, not sure I would have attempted correcting that leaning Pisa cab. Would Queen Berengaria have had that Collet-type cover on the reverse screw gear post 1932? I only have a LHS photo dated 1938, but I couldn't find any other Stars in the 1930's with one. Although most photographs show the LHS. Are you going to add a speedometer cable if it's late 1930's?? NigelP

Found my Star - Queen Alexandra Castle Class (renamed Hornby Castle, much modified), took some shots of the footplate fixed to the tender for those interested in having something that the fireman can stand on, rather than climb over. NigelP

Took a couple of low res pictures, hopefully I'm doing this correctly. Many bits are just propped in place. The keen eyed will note the inside chairs and blocks on the track. Flange height is critical, otherwise stock just bounces down the track. Driving the middle axle means the gearbox is hidden by the wheel splasher. The gap in the bottom of the boiler was filled with low temp solder. NigelP

The box says: GWR Dean 0-6-0 Outside Frame L14OF. Orange box, address was Grimsbury South Industrial Estate, Banbury. Postcode no longer exists, not surprising given the redevelopment of this area of Banbury (it would have been around where the old Merton Street Station was). Picture (very faded) shows the outside frame 0-6-0 next to a Dean Goods. I've seen this model incorrectly advertised on eBay as an outside frame Dean Goods. NigelP

No, it's definitely a 2361 class - straight frames, under-hung springs, Dean Goods body and 2500 gallon GWR tender. Keyser were using "design clever" (or "design cheap") - the frames are from the Dean Goods (and which match the prototype wheelbase exactly). The real 2361 had slightly different wheelbases and was slightly shorter overall than a Dean Goods - slight differences in the smoke box (and probably boiler length, a movable feast on the real thing) would account for this. The outside frames on the model are off by around 1mm overall compared to the prototype, which I can live with. Dean was building both types at the same time, makes sense that the same boilers/cabs/tenders were used. I was going to use some commercial frames for the Dean Goods for the inner frames, but close study showed some differences between the 2361 and 23xx classes. I may draw some up and get them etched, even if they're cosmetic. I'm trying to find out what gear the inner frames would have had - hornblocks, springs, etc. Barnums, another double frame design, appear to have had 2 hornblocks and 2 springs for each side. Which would make sense, as each frame needs a hornblock, and each hornblock would require a spring. Any help on this subject would be appreciated. NigelP

I'm currently building an "Outside Frame Dean Goods", which I believe is really a 2361 class (but with a Dean Goods wheelbase) to EM gauge. The kit cost me £20.00 at Warley 2 years ago. Mk-2 motor (so post 1983) and a worm that has to be soldered on (and of course not concentric). The motor actually spins smoothly. Luckily I had a set of Romfords that just needed the flanges turning down, a small Mashima motor and a Branchlines/Romford gearbox in the spares box. So far the only expense has been a set of EM extended axles, 5mm spacers and "deluxe" outside cranks. My salvage yard yielded a Dean dome, valve cover and chimney, all in brass. The brass bars that pass for a chassis were reduced in depth, the frames widened by the simple expedient of 2 brass washers on each end of the spacers (0.7mm), and I've added a fabricated firebox/ash tray. I'll cover the screw heads with "strengthening plates". The motor now drives the middle axle, so plenty of daylight under the boiler. I'll post some photo's as it progresses (and I figure out how to post them!). NigelP