Stephen's 7mm Workbench - J68 (starts p.23)

[JeffP]

It'll probably work as well as my idea.

[stephenashton]

Update #5

 

This doesn't look like I've done much, but I've spent a full evening working on the chassis. The buffer beam reinforcing gussets and the firebox ash pan sides are in place, the bearings are in and soldered into place, the motor mount is in place and I've tested the motor and gearbox. Everything is fine and square. The only issue is that the motor is a bit noisy in one direction, but there's no point getting it quiet yet as it will have to be removed for painting at some point in the future.

 

 

Next up are the coupling rods.

[stephenashton]

Update #6

 

It took a couple of hours, but here are the coupling rods for one side of the loco. Quite pleased with how they've turned out as there's a lot of potential for errors here.

 

 

I clipped the ends together and worked from the middle of each rod with the solder and plenty of flux. They've cleaned up nicely too.

 

Now to do the other side ...

[stephenashton]

Update #7

 

Apologies if this takes too long to lead, there are rather a lot of images in this post. However, I really wanted to show you some of the steps taken to get to where I am with this build.

 

The last update showed the first set of coupling rods completed. I finished the second set of rods and then tried them for size. Here they are being attached to each of the wheels:

 

 

 

 

And here they are on the chassis:

 

 

I'm pleased to report that everything ran nicely, although there are a couple of tight spots which will need sorting out when the  chassis has been painted and I'm assembling what I hope will be a smooth running chassis!

 

Next up I opened out the holes in the chassis for the Slaters plunger pickups. Here's the one I had to move a little to make sure that the pickup made contact with the wheel rim:

 

 

And here it is with the wheel in place:

 

 

Phew! We have contact!

 

I then moved on to the brakes. First up was the job of laminating the brake pads onto the hangers:

 

 

Here are all six brake pads and hangers ready to be cleaned up:

 

 

There were then six brake hanger brackets to clean up and bend:

 

 

The triangular scale rule has been invaluable for forming the 90 degree bends needed for this model. I found that making the long bends on the chassis and the smaller bends, such as these hangers, has been really easy despite the fact that I don't have any bending bars.

 

Here are the the pull rods and the remainder of the braking system ready for installation:

 

 

Here's the first brake hanger in position, as you can see I've started at the front and will be working my way backwards:

 

 

(Cruel close up!)

 

And here is a view from the underside with the final joint just soldered:

 

 

I had to remove the rear wheels to assemble the last part of the brake gear.

 

Then the rest of the wheels needed to be removed so that the flux could be washed off. Here's the completed chassis without wheels, first from below:

 

 

And then the right way up:

 

 

And then here it is with the wheels and coupling rods back on, first upside down:

 

 

And then the right way up, again:

 

 

Of course I could resist popping the body on and seeing how she looks on the track:

 

 

 

 

 

Looking good!

 

So the chassis is ready for painting and I'll be moving back onto the body next.

 

So far this kit has been spot on for a first build. 

 

 

[stephenashton]

Update #8

 

The construction of the chassis is largely complete. I still have to add the 'sloppy axle compensation' and the sand pipes. I had thought that the sand pipes needed to be added to the body, but I think they can be attached to the chassis without too much problem - and this will make removing the body much easier.

 

However, I've moved back onto the construction of the body. This starts with the forming of the smoke box. This is where reading the extra detail in the instructions for the J79 (a free download from the Connoisseur Models website) really helped. These instructions guide a beginner (like me) through the build with plenty of detail as to technique and with loads of hints and tips.

 

I started by pinning the smokebox front to a block of softwood and tacking the smokebox wrapper to it. Here it is ready for the solder to be applied:

 

 

Fitting the front went quite well. The end result is fine, but I took my time to make sure that the joints were as tight as I could get all round. This was then offered up to the footplate to make sure that all was okay before attaching the smokebox back. The instructions suggest that a block of wood be formed to hold the smokebox back in place while soldering. I couldn't be bothered with that so tried a stuffing the smokebox with a wodge of kitchen roll. Amazingly, this worked. After a lot of cleaning up I tried it in place ... And couldn't resist adding some of the castings (these are, obviously, not soldered into place yet):

 

 

Next up were the front splashers and sandboxes. The curved elements of these are half etched to help forming the curves, but this does make them a little delicate. I think I'd have preferred it if they were harder to form, but tougher once formed. Either way they were easy to form, but of all the parts so far these have been the least accurate. Again, I pinned the side to my softwood block and held the curves in place with a lot of bluetac. The soldering went like a dream, but a lot of adjustment, fettling and clean up was required once it was done.

 

There is a small half-round return which needs folding out at the front of each of the sandboxes. These are tiny and very delicate. I knew I would destroy them when fettling the sandboxes to fit around the smoke box. So I cut them off and soldered them into place once the sand box was fitted.

 

Here is the first sandbox/splasher in place:

 

 

... and here is the second:

 

 

Here is the gratuitous shot of the body back on the chassis and the white metal castings back in place. It's really starting to look like a locomotive now!

 

 

I've also been reading a little more about the class and there are a number of alterations to the kit that I'm contemplating (I know, I know, I said this was my first kit and I wanted to keep it simple). I'd like this finished in the early BR crest, (probably 68230) so:

 

1. I'll be adding some plates to the coal bunkers as most of the class had these fitted quite early on.

 

2. I'm considering the wooden buffer beam at the front. Again many of the class had these fitted and the photo I have of 68230 shows that this one does have it. This means that I will have to remove the buffer beam from the footplate and knock up the extra parts from scrap brass. Shouldn't be too much of a big issue at this stage.

 

3. I'd like to add some lubricators to the tank fronts.

 

4. I might omit the clack valves. To be accurate I should, but I would like to keep as much detail as possible. More thought required!

 

5. Later in their life locos had the 'clock face' handles on the smokebox door, but the kit comes with the older handle. Might try scratch-building it later ...

 

6. I'll also need to look at the organ-pipe whistle rather than the one included in the kit.

 

Plenty to consider ...

 

Next up is the boiler!

[JeffP]

You can get ready made brass smokebox door handles, (darts) from various manufacturers. Laurie Griffin does one, part number 26-7, £4.

 

It really is looking good, isn't it?

[stephenashton]

You can get ready made brass smokebox door handles, (darts) from various manufacturers. Laurie Griffin does one, part number 26-7, £4.

 

It really is looking good, isn't it?

Thanks. I hadn't seen the Laurie Griffin website before now but I had seen something similar by Markits. My first step will probably be to spend a happy few minutes poking around in the boxes at Tennents Trains in Halesowen. It's a great little shop, it's only ten minutes up the road from me and I'm sure I've already seen the smoke box darts, sprung buffers and handrail knobs I would like for this build.

 

And, yes, I'm really pleased with how it's coming on. Choose this particular loco because of its elegant proportions; the 0-4-0s and the J79 are just a bit to short and stumpy to my eye.

[PatB]

Are you sure there isn't a clock hands dart lurking in the casting bag?  My Y7 came with both types.  Two of each as well, which was good because I destroyed the first one.

[stephenashton]

Are you sure there isn't a clock hands dart lurking in the casting bag?  My Y7 came with both types.  Two of each as well, which was good because I destroyed the first one.

I'm afraid not. I had the same thought last night and checked. Still, it was a good call: it's not up to the detail of a JLTRT kit, but there was plenty of stuff in the box.

[PatB]

I'm afraid not. I had the same thought last night and checked. Still, it was a good call: it's not up to the detail of a JLTRT kit, but there was plenty of stuff in the box.

 

Fair enough.  Certainly the Y7, as constructed by myself, isn't really up to the sort of close up photography we are now accustomed to seeing in 0 gauge, mostly due to my painting efforts.  It does, however, pass the six foot test quite reasonably and is orders of magnitude better than anything I owned when I was mucking about in 0 gauge thirty years ago.  You do remind me, however, that I wanted to put lubricators on the tank fronts (photographs show the Y7 had them too) but got to the point in the build that I just wanted something reasonably complete.  I can make up representative blobs and glue them in place later.

[PAD]

Thanks. The photos are perhaps a little deceptive: the kit is so well designed that its been quite easy to get to the point where I've got something that looks like a train! However, there is still a lot to do ...

My current plan is to build the loco as Jim recommends as this is my first brass loco. So the centre wheel will remain raised a little and I'll be introducing some of what the instructions refer to as 'sloppy axle compensation' for the front wheels to improve the pickup. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Don't do it. Not sure what you mean by sloppy axle compensation. If you make the axle a sloppy fit in the bearings, then that is all is - a sloppy fit. It will not aid pick up. If you have got the front and rear drivers to sit square then you are part way there. The slightly raised middle axle stops the loco rocking on high points in the track, but when on level track there is no contact or puck up. I've built Jim's Jinty with the chassis rigid and it ran pretty well. For me Jeff's suggestion of introducing some vertical movement on the middle axle is the best, and I have subsequently done that with Jinty. Suggest you take up any sideplay in the axles with washes and get all the axles running free before you fit the rods. Pick up should be fine as long as the track is not crap.

[PatB]

Assuming that what you describe as sloppy axle compensation is similar to that described by Jim for his 0-4-0s, with a rocking leading axle in ovalled axle bearings, I've gone that way on the Y7.  Whilst it appears crude from an engineering viewpoint, it appears to work.  The Y7 chassis will crawl along a section of decidedly wobbly track and doesn't hesitate when asked to traverse a piece of cornflake box card placed on one rail.

 

I can't, however, speak for the longevity of any component or any other aspect of long term service on a layout.  Not even its performance through pointwork as I don't yet own any.

[stephenashton]

Thoughts? Don't do it. Not sure what you mean by sloppy axle compensation. If you make the axle a sloppy fit in the bearings, then that is all is - a sloppy fit. It will not aid pick up. If you have got the front and rear drivers to sit square then you are part way there. The slightly raised middle axle stops the loco rocking on high points in the track, but when on level track there is no contact or puck up. I've built Jim's Jinty with the chassis rigid and it ran pretty well. For me Jeff's suggestion of introducing some vertical movement on the middle axle is the best, and I have subsequently done that with Jinty. Suggest you take up any sideplay in the axles with washes and get all the axles running free before you fit the rods. Pick up should be fine as long as the track is not crap.

Assuming that what you describe as sloppy axle compensation is similar to that described by Jim for his 0-4-0s, with a rocking leading axle in ovalled axle bearings, I've gone that way on the Y7.  Whilst it appears crude from an engineering viewpoint, it appears to work.  The Y7 chassis will crawl along a section of decidedly wobbly track and doesn't hesitate when asked to traverse a piece of cornflake box card placed on one rail.

 

I can't, however, speak for the longevity of any component or any other aspect of long term service on a layout.  Not even its performance through pointwork as I don't yet own any.

Thank you, both, for your thoughts. PatB your description is spot on. The term 'sloppy axle compensation' comes from Jim in the instruction manuals he wrote for both the J71 and the J79. as you say, it doesn't just mean that the axle is loose, but that it can rock from side to side to aid pickup. I read a lot of articles and forum threads describing the construction of Connoisseur Model builds, virtually all have followed Jim's advice and are pleased with the results. This is why I planned to go down this route. However, as I'm focusing on the body for now a can give it a little thought and do a little more research.

[stephenashton]

Update #9

 

Just a small update today. I've fitted the boiler formers (sorry I didn't take pictures of these going in) and boiler bands. Again, this wasn't a job I was particularly looking forward to, but once again everything seems to have gone well enough. Here's a close up:

 

 

The tank inside faces, boiler , smoke box and white metal castings are still all just loosely in place. I've got some lead sheet to fit into the tanks and (perhaps) the front of the boiler before I start attaching these parts.

 

I then moved back to the coal rails. These were plated over on most examples so I trimmed a little brass sheet to suit. Here it is in place:

 

 

This photo is very revealing. I need to work on the slight gap between the bunker and the footplate and clean up around the step into the cab ...

[PAD]

 

Thank you, both, for your thoughts. PatB your description is spot on. The term 'sloppy axle compensation' comes from Jim in the instruction manuals he wrote for both the J71 and the J79. as you say, it doesn't just mean that the axle is loose, but that it can rock from side to side to aid pickup. I read a lot of articles and forum threads describing the construction of Connoisseur Model builds, virtually all have followed Jim's advice and are pleased with the results. This is why I planned to go down this route. However, as I'm focusing on the body for now a can give it a little thought and do a little more research.

Now I understand (thanks to PatB). I assume there will some sort of central pivot on the front axle, either fixed or via an adjustable screw? I've used the latter on a 4 wheel Caledonian Pug and it seems Ok. that said I still feel that keeping the outer axles fixed and elongating the bearing slots for the middle axle, is better for a 6 coupled loco (simpler to do also). Each to his own though. Best of luck with which ever method you choose.

[PAD]

Update #9

 

Just a small update today. I've fitted the boiler formers (sorry I didn't take pictures of these going in) and boiler bands. Again, this wasn't a job I was particularly looking forward to, but once again everything seems to have gone well enough. Here's a close up:

 

 

The tank inside faces, boiler , smoke box and white metal castings are still all just loosely in place. I've got some lead sheet to fit into the tanks and (perhaps) the front of the boiler before I start attaching these parts.

 

I then moved back to the coal rails. These were plated over on most examples so I trimmed a little brass sheet to suit. Here it is in place:

 

 

This photo is very revealing. I need to work on the slight gap between the bunker and the footplate and clean up around the step into the cab ...

Going back to some of the earlier posts, it seems to me that you are not getting the solder to flow out correctly. Maybe also using too much solder??? Think you need to consider if the iron is hot enough and if you are using enough flux. I use 145 solder, with a 50w Antex TCS and Gaugemaster non acidic flux and it works a treat. I've seen other modellers quoting the need for a higher wattage iron for O gauge, but I find this iron will deal with anything from an Pug to a Pacific without difficulty (see my thread on the Seven Duke of Gloucester). Falls down slightly with big brass castings (chimneys, domes) but I use epoxy for these so it is not an issue. For filling the gap you might get away with low melt solder and a smaller iron if you have it. I've done that without problem before and you don't risk moving other things close by, with the heat of the "big iron". Seems to clean up easier to, with a few strokes from the glass fibre brush. Cheers,

Peter

[stephenashton]

Going back to some of the earlier posts, it seems to me that you are not getting the solder to flow out correctly. Maybe also using too much solder??? Think you need to consider if the iron is hot enough and if you are using enough flux. I use 145 solder, with a 50w Antex TCS and Gaugemaster non acidic flux and it works a treat. I've seen other modellers quoting the need for a higher wattage iron for O gauge, but I find this iron will deal with anything from an Pug to a Pacific without difficulty (see my thread on the Seven Duke of Gloucester). Falls down slightly with big brass castings (chimneys, domes) but I use epoxy for these so it is not an issue. For filling the gap you might get away with low melt solder and a smaller iron if you have it. I've done that without problem before and you don't risk moving other things close by, with the heat of the "big iron". Seems to clean up easier to, with a few strokes from the glass fibre brush. Cheers,Peter

Peter. Thanks for the pointers. I think you are right. The areas I want to improve are all related to the joint between the tank sides and the footplate which is the main joint I struggled with. The fundamental problem seems to have been my technique. Okay, I was using 188 degree solder and 'only' a 40W Antex iron so I was making life a little hard for myself. But now, knowing that getting heat into the joint was a problem, I have been able to get this combination to produce clean, strong joints since then. I'm using more flux, less solder, allowing longer for the joint to heat up and working in a smaller area. So there's been a big lesson learned early on in this kit ... and it's one that keeps coming back to haunt me on these forums! ;-)

 

I have to get some low melt solder for the white metal castings and I have a couple of smaller irons which might do the trick for filling the gaps. (I'm sure my yellow Antex is 25W and should be ideal for this.)

 

Thanks for your helpful comments ... Stephen.

[stephenashton]

Now I understand (thanks to PatB). I assume there will some sort of central pivot on the front axle, either fixed or via an adjustable screw? I've used the latter on a 4 wheel Caledonian Pug and it seems Ok. that said I still feel that keeping the outer axles fixed and elongating the bearing slots for the middle axle, is better for a 6 coupled loco (simpler to do also). Each to his own though. Best of luck with which ever method you choose.

 

Yes. There's provision for a central pivot to be installed. It's fixed rather than adjustable.

 

The pickups for this model are on the front and rear wheels only. Does this help make the decision for me? Or should I try to spring the central axle *and* add an extra pair of pickups? Hmmmmm ...

[PatB]

Incidentally, I found that the perfect tool for ovalling the axle bearings is a 1/4 inch chainsaw file.  Round, parallel, not too coarse, an accurate fit in the bearing and long enough to allow both bearings to be opened up in line.  I've been looking for a use for mine since admitting that I'm rubbish at sharpening chainsaws.

[PAD]

er

Yes. There's provision for a central pivot to be installed. It's fixed rather than adjustable.

 

The pickups for this model are on the front and rear wheels only. Does this help make the decision for me? Or should I try to spring the central axle *and* add an extra pair of pickups? Hmmmmm ...

 

Looks like you are too far advanced to go with the middle axle option as you appear to have the bearings and motor mount soldered in place. It will be difficult to back track from here without a lot of grief, so I would go with the pivoting front axle option. That said, you appear to have the front bearings soldered in place???

[stephenashton]

Looks like you are too far advanced to go with the middle axle option as you appear to have the bearings and motor mount soldered in place. It will be difficult to back track from here without a lot of grief, so I would go with the pivoting front axle option. That said, you appear to have the front bearings soldered in place???

 

You're probably right about the middle axle. I know how I'd add springing, but it would be a bit of a faff ...

 

You're also right that the front bearings are soldered in place. I could cut them out and install hornblocks, but Jim's instructions read (after giving advice about soldering in the bearings):

 

"Pass an axle through the front bearings and then pass a length of brass rod through the two oval holes in the spacers. Solder the rod in place so that it bears down on the axle. Remove the axle and ... file (use a round or 1/2 round file) the top and bottom of the bearing hole into a slight oval. Refit the axle and you should have a slight rock of about 5 thou on each side, this does wonders for electrical pickup."

 

So I *think* I'm okay!

[stephenashton]

Update #10

 

Not a big update today because I was busy last night, but I did find time to cut up some lead sheet ready for fixing into the tanks and boiler:

 

 

 

I plan to whack the tank weights flat with a hammer and then fix in place using Araldite. They're clear of the wheels already, so they should be fine.

 

With this additional weight in, but without the motor, the centre of gravity is roughly above the middle axle. This is likely to shift back a bit once the motor is factored in so I'll probably stuff a bit more lead sheet into the boiler tube to balance it out. Has anyone managed to add too much weight to their model!?

[PatB]

Well, 30 years ago I built a freelance diesel shunter (vaguely Ruston 48DSish) around a Lima motor bogie.  The body was, effectively, a shaped lead block with a plasticard skin.  It was a beautiful slow runner and would pull a house down but the pathetically thin axles eventually ate their way up into the unbushed plastic frame and messed up the gear mesh.  Whilst it was working it also had a tendency to smell slightly of hot electricity if heavily loaded.  With a less cheaply engineered chassis the weight wouldn't have presented a problem, although it was probably still a bit over the top.

[stephenashton]

Well, 30 years ago I built a freelance diesel shunter (vaguely Ruston 48DSish) around a Lima motor bogie.  The body was, effectively, a shaped lead block with a plasticard skin.  It was a beautiful slow runner and would pull a house down but the pathetically thin axles eventually ate their way up into the unbushed plastic frame and messed up the gear mesh.  Whilst it was working it also had a tendency to smell slightly of hot electricity if heavily loaded.  With a less cheaply engineered chassis the weight wouldn't have presented a problem, although it was probably still a bit over the top.

 

Excellent!!! Made me smile! I think I should be okay, then ...

[JeffP]

"Hot electricity"?

Wow!!!!!!

 

LOL