4 COR

[Colin parks]

Looks really good Colin this is one most interesting projects I have followed on RMweb   Now just get some yellow stripes and you have a Connex  4-COR!

 

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

 

Thanks for your comments. Re. livery: nothing could be that simple! I'm going for the 1969-72 period as this allows all kind of liveried units to run together. Not all 4 COR liveries, but these could all be seen together: BR(S)green with small or full yellow ends, BR blue & BR blue/grey.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Cor .....what a job !

Yes Tigermoth, what a job. Layouts have been built in the time it has taken so far!

 

It will soon be time to return to the 'dreaded' gangways and get them fitted. I will have to disappoint you and have fixed cab-front ones, but they will be modelled as sagging slightly.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[uax6]

Being not quite up on the southern scene, could you run this unit with a green coach in the middle?

 

Andy G

[Colin parks]

Being not quite up on the southern scene, could you run this unit with a green coach in the middle?

 

Andy G

Hi Andy,

 

I've been referring to your photos quite a lot recently!

 

Re. liveries: There seems no likelihood of a 4 COR - or at least in the case of 3142, running with odd liveried vehicles in the 70's. As far as is possible to tell, this unit ran with the same vehicles from 1946* onwards, so all of them would have been given a coat BR blue at their last repaint at the same time. I do plan to have a bit of green showing through the face plates of the cab gangways if that is off any consolation.

 

* When 3142 was re-formed with motor coach S11161S from a 4 RES.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[uax6]

Thats a shame, as I often think that it is part of the BR scene that seldom gets modelled. I have seen quite a few DMU's with odd vehicles still in green when the rest is blue.

 

BTW it is looking absolutely stunning, and that slight mod to the front has made a world of difference.

 

andy G

[Oldddudders]

I think one of the key differences between SR EMUs and DEMUs, and DMMU fleets elsewhere, is just how rigidly the Southern and BR(S) kept to unit formations. Colin points out that 3142 had the same four vehicles from 1946 onwards, and, accident damage etc apart, that would be the case for almost the entire fleet from commissioning to scrapping. The only exceptions were where business needs changed, e.g. the demise of the 4-RES units when that level of catering was no longer necessary. The Southern Railway had got into this habit in the 1920s, with fixed formations of loco-hauled coaches into sets, with numbers on the ends, which would be augmented as necessary by "loose" vehicles when traffic needs dictated.

 

As Colin says, there would have been green units about at the same time as blue ones - but each unit would certainly have borne one livery only.

[uax6]

Thats an interesting point. Somewhere in the archive I have a list of some of the Bullied loco-hauled sets. Am i right that the Bluebell has preserved some of these sets?

 

Andy G

[Ceptic]

I think one of the key differences between SR EMUs and DEMUs, and DMMU fleets elsewhere, is just how rigidly the Southern and BR(S) kept to unit formations. Colin points out that 3142 had the same four vehicles from 1946 onwards, and, accident damage etc apart, that would be the case for almost the entire fleet from commissioning to scrapping. The only exceptions were where business needs changed, e.g. the demise of the 4-RES units when that level of catering was no longer necessary. The Southern Railway had got into this habit in the 1920s, with fixed formations of loco-hauled coaches into sets, with numbers on the ends, which would be augmented as necessary by "loose" vehicles when traffic needs dictated.

 

As Colin says, there would have been green units about at the same time as blue ones - but each unit would certainly have borne one livery only.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bringing on a pedantic point of view, wasn't the first official S.R. photo taken of a 4-BUF, showing the Bullied 'Bognor' Buffet Car in Malachite Green, with the rest of the unit in Maunsell Green ?

Whether the 4-BUFs ran as such, for publicity purposes, is open to question, as I've not seen any record of when, or if, the rest of the units' cars were subsequently re-painted into Malachite.

 

Regards.

[Oldddudders]

 

I think one of the key differences between SR EMUs and DEMUs, and DMMU fleets elsewhere, is just how rigidly the Southern and BR(S) kept to unit formations. Colin points out that 3142 had the same four vehicles from 1946 onwards, and, accident damage etc apart, that would be the case for almost the entire fleet from commissioning to scrapping. The only exceptions were where business needs changed, e.g. the demise of the 4-RES units when that level of catering was no longer necessary. The Southern Railway had got into this habit in the 1920s, with fixed formations of loco-hauled coaches into sets, with numbers on the ends, which would be augmented as necessary by "loose" vehicles when traffic needs dictated.

 

As Colin says, there would have been green units about at the same time as blue ones - but each unit would certainly have borne one livery only.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bringing on a pedantic point of view, wasn't the first official S.R. photo taken of a 4-BUF, showing the Bullied 'Bognor' Buffet Car in Malachite Green, with the rest of the unit in Maunsell Green ?

Whether the 4-BUFs ran as such, for publicity purposes, is open to question, as I've not seen any record of when, or if, the rest of the units' cars were subsequently re-painted into Malachite.

 

Regards.

 

Not pedantic at all. That was pre-war, and I think the pic was taken at Ore? 1938 (when the BUFs were built to run the newly-electrified Bognor via Dorking service) was in the changeover period from olive to malachite, and if different works did the painting, then the result was inevitable. In the BR period no such variations would have been allowed.

[Colin parks]

I think one of the key differences between SR EMUs and DEMUs, and DMMU fleets elsewhere, is just how rigidly the Southern and BR(S) kept to unit formations. Colin points out that 3142 had the same four vehicles from 1946 onwards, and, accident damage etc apart, that would be the case for almost the entire fleet from commissioning to scrapping. The only exceptions were where business needs changed, e.g. the demise of the 4-RES units when that level of catering was no longer necessary. The Southern Railway had got into this habit in the 1920s, with fixed formations of loco-hauled coaches into sets, with numbers on the ends, which would be augmented as necessary by "loose" vehicles when traffic needs dictated.

 

As Colin says, there would have been green units about at the same time as blue ones - but each unit would certainly have borne one livery only.

Hi Ian,

 

I'm glad I got that right about the livery application. David Brown does give exhaustive lists of war-damage replacements and re-formations of stock in his definitive books on the Southern Electric. It takes a bit of reading through to fully understand the changes, but as you say, it appears no units ran with mixed liveries. It would be very interesting to know if photos exist of multi-coloured EMUs.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Thats a shame, as I often think that it is part of the BR scene that seldom gets modelled. I have seen quite a few DMU's with odd vehicles still in green when the rest is blue.

 

BTW it is looking absolutely stunning, and that slight mod to the front has made a world of difference.

 

andy G

Thanks Andy,

 

You have raised an interesting point about 4 COR liveries. I do have green EMUs as well as blue and blue/grey ones and all these liveries could be seen together for a short period, but I have never heard of a bi-coloured Southern Region EMUs.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

I have worked out that the Hornby buffers have designed to be smaller to avoid the need for different tooling of the 2 BIL bodies etc.

[Colin parks]

 

I think one of the key differences between SR EMUs and DEMUs, and DMMU fleets elsewhere, is just how rigidly the Southern and BR(S) kept to unit formations. Colin points out that 3142 had the same four vehicles from 1946 onwards, and, accident damage etc apart, that would be the case for almost the entire fleet from commissioning to scrapping. The only exceptions were where business needs changed, e.g. the demise of the 4-RES units when that level of catering was no longer necessary. The Southern Railway had got into this habit in the 1920s, with fixed formations of loco-hauled coaches into sets, with numbers on the ends, which would be augmented as necessary by "loose" vehicles when traffic needs dictated.

 

As Colin says, there would have been green units about at the same time as blue ones - but each unit would certainly have borne one livery only.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bringing on a pedantic point of view, wasn't the first official S.R. photo taken of a 4-BUF, showing the Bullied 'Bognor' Buffet Car in Malachite Green, with the rest of the unit in Maunsell Green ?

Whether the 4-BUFs ran as such, for publicity purposes, is open to question, as I've not seen any record of when, or if, the rest of the units' cars were subsequently re-painted into Malachite.

 

Regards.

 

Hi Frank,

 

I have seen the b&w 4 BUF photo with the paler shade of green applied to the buffet car. The model will be c.1972 condition, so what the Southern Railway got up to I shall leave for someone else to sort out! There are instances of BR(S) EMUs in unusual liveries, most notably the few 4 SUBs that were painted in blue/small yellow warning panels. I shall have to do some reading to check up on all this.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Not pedantic at all. That was pre-war, and I think the pic was taken at Ore? 1938 (when the BUFs were built to run the newly-electrified Bognor via Dorking service) was in the changeover period from olive to malachite, and if different works did the painting, then the result was inevitable. In the BR period no such variations would have been allowed.

Hi Ian (& Frank) me again.

 

The 4 BUFs were the first EMUs that Bulleid had any influence on. The buffet car had all that Art-Deco styling and it could have been that the malachite livery was for appraisal only.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

This scratch building lark is 50% work and 50% getting things done in the right order and not getting distracted:

 

Detailing the roof had to stop until the junction boxes on the inner ends had been made and installed. The train line conduit runs into boxes on the inner ends of the coaches it must go on before the toilet water tank filler pipes etc. Only(!) twenty-four of the pesky little boxes to fabricate and, while at it, I remembered a box of 1mm x 1mm magnets I had ordered a long time back from Magnet Expert. This idea has been stolen from Jim S-W of Birmingham New Street fame and Lyneux (Guy): jumper cables made from elastic with magnets on the ends.

 

 

 

There is a magnet set into the bottom of each jumper box and a magnet on each end of the 'cable'. The only snag that I can foresee is that the polarities of the magnets must all agree: N-S----N-S -if that makes sense. I am wondering if putting a simple piece of steel rod on each end of the cable would be strong enough. Nine cables are required, as only three out of six boxes are used on each motor coach (some consolation).

 

Oh well, it makes a change from making all those boxes. Does anyone make non-ferrous tweezers?!

 

Colin

[Oldddudders]

This scratch building lark is 50% work and 50% getting things done in the right order and not getting distracted:

 

Detailing the roof had to stop until the junction boxes on the inner ends had been made and installed. The train line conduit runs into boxes on the inner ends of the coaches it must go on before the toilet water tank filler pipes etc. Only(!) twenty-four of the pesky little boxes to fabricate and, while at it, I remembered a box of 1mm x 1mm magnets I had ordered a long time back from Magnet Expert. This idea has been stolen from Jim S-W of Birmingham New Street fame and Lyneux (Guy): jumper cables made from elastic with magnets on the ends.

 

IMG_6249.JPG

 

 

There is a magnet set into the bottom of each jumper box and a magnet on each end of the 'cable'. The only snag that I can foresee is that the polarities of the magnets must all agree: N-S----N-S -if that makes sense. I am wondering if putting a simple piece of steel rod on each end of the cable would be strong enough. Nine cables are required, as only three out of six boxes are used on each motor coach (some consolation).

 

Oh well, it makes a change from making all those boxes. Does anyone make non-ferrous tweezers?!

 

Colin

Antex used to - I have a set from the '60s. They are aluminium, self closing and act as heat-sinks.

[Southernboy]

Hello Colin,

 

I've been following each update and admiring the work you've put into this project, your dedication to detail is really so impressive.

 

With this most recent update on jumper cables I have a question: Why have magnets in each box and at both ends of the jumper cable?

 

Could not one end of a cable be permanently fixed to one box, so you only have to have one magnet fixed to the other end of the cable and another magnet fixed to adjoining box? That way you halve the number of magnets / work connecting / unconnecting things / required (?)

 

I may well be missing something of course - I'm still on life's big learning curve!

 

Either way - I'll continue to follow your jaw-dropping progress in awe

[Colin parks]

Hello Colin,

 

I've been following each update and admiring the work you've put into this project, your dedication to detail is really so impressive.

 

With this most recent update on jumper cables I have a question: Why have magnets in each box and at both ends of the jumper cable?

 

Could not one end of a cable be permanently fixed to one box, so you only have to have one magnet fixed to the other end of the cable and another magnet fixed to adjoining box? That way you halve the number of magnets / work connecting / unconnecting things / required (?)

 

I may well be missing something of course - I'm still on life's big learning curve!

 

Either way - I'll continue to follow your jaw-dropping progress in awe

Hi Southernboy,

 

Thanks for your comments. I must admit to getting build-fatigue - there are just so many parts to make and fit!

 

Yes, the cables could just as easily be attached at one end permanently. The idea was to have as many parts as possible to be removable for painting, although I could fit the cables post-painting. The cables as shown find their way together very easily, so that is no problem.

 

I will have think about this, with each magnet costing 10p, cost is not a real issue.

 

Any news of the 3 SUB?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

With the junction boxes on, it was time to start adding the planks from which the gangways are suspended.

 

Nothing could be so easy as to have the 'eyes' fixed through the planks as I had at first assumed. In fact they are bolted to a length of 'L' angle on the real thing. What is seen here is just tacked on to make sure everything is reasonably proportioned - no point having all the working parts if they are too gross to look convincing. Though the junction boxes are on, they need a little tidying up. Only three seen here are magnetic - to match those on the adjacent trailer coach end. (The 4 COR motor coaches had two sets of these connections to allow them to be used at either end of the train, the trailers being 'handed' only had three on each end. The number '6' refers to the particular gangway which will go on this inner end. It would be good to make the gangways detachable for painting, but that would mean assembly after painting of many tiny parts. However, it might be the only way.

 

 

 

I have a plan to make articulated suspension links from old bits of etched screw-link couplings, but this might impede the movement of the gangways. We shall see.

 

 

Colin

[bazza.]

This scratch building lark is 50% work and 50% getting things done in the right order and not getting distracted:

 

Detailing the roof had to stop until the junction boxes on the inner ends had been made and installed. The train line conduit runs into boxes on the inner ends of the coaches it must go on before the toilet water tank filler pipes etc. Only(!) twenty-four of the pesky little boxes to fabricate and, while at it, I remembered a box of 1mm x 1mm magnets I had ordered a long time back from Magnet Expert. This idea has been stolen from Jim S-W of Birmingham New Street fame and Lyneux (Guy): jumper cables made from elastic with magnets on the ends.

 

IMG_6249.JPG

 

 

There is a magnet set into the bottom of each jumper box and a magnet on each end of the 'cable'. The only snag that I can foresee is that the polarities of the magnets must all agree: N-S----N-S -if that makes sense. I am wondering if putting a simple piece of steel rod on each end of the cable would be strong enough. Nine cables are required, as only three out of six boxes are used on each motor coach (some consolation).

 

Oh well, it makes a change from making all those boxes. Does anyone make non-ferrous tweezers?!

 

Colin

Hi Colin,

 

There are lots for sale on e-bay, also look out for watch makers tweezers, most of which are non-magnetic.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

There are lots for sale on e-bay, also look out for watch makers tweezers, most of which are non-magnetic.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

Hi Bazza,

 

Thanks for your guidance re. tweezers. Since making the comment, I have realised that 1mm magnets stuck to tweezers are better than those that attach themselves to random places. (One ended up on an axle just behind the wheel. It was hard to spot!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Antex used to - I have a set from the '60s. They are aluminium, self closing and act as heat-sinks.

Thanks Ian,

 

I might not need the tweezers for magnets now for reasons given in my reply to Bazza. What would be good though is the aluminium self-closing, heat sink type for holding small items when soldering. Two fingers got burnt yesterday when assembling the gangway suspension eyes to the angle irons - ouch!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Bulleidboy]

Thanks Ian,

 

I might not need the tweezers for magnets now for reasons given in my reply to Bazza. What would be good though is the aluminium self-closing, heat sink type for holding small items when soldering. Two fingers got burnt yesterday when assembling the gangway suspension eyes to the angle irons - ouch!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Colin

 

One of the members of my ex Club is a GP and often brought in a selection of self-latching forceps which sound just the thing that you are looking for.  If you are on good terms with your local Health Centre you could always see if they have any going spare - as far as I recall they came in packs which once opened could not be re-used, hence he gave them away rather than throwing them away.

 

Mike

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

One of the members of my ex Club is a GP and often brought in a selection of self-latching forceps which sound just the thing that you are looking for.  If you are on good terms with your local Health Centre you could always see if they have any going spare - as far as I recall they came in packs which once opened could not be re-used, hence he gave them away rather than throwing them away.

 

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for that. I do wonder if GPs would let 'used' equipment out of the building, but I do know the practice manager of our surgery, so maybe I'll give it a try.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[bazza.]

Thanks Ian,

 

I might not need the tweezers for magnets now for reasons given in my reply to Bazza. What would be good though is the aluminium self-closing, heat sink type for holding small items when soldering. Two fingers got burnt yesterday when assembling the gangway suspension eyes to the angle irons - ouch!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Hi again,

 

I have a pair of Hemostate Clamps in my tool kit for holding small items when soldering. Might stop your burns !

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Colin parks]

There are luckily only two ends quite like this (or there will be soon):

 

The emergency brake linkage threads through the brackets which hold the gangway top plank.  Putting the parts on in the correct order took some thought and all this lot had to go on before the gangways are tackled.

 

 

I can see a few improvements and tweaks.  The two lower conduits to the left of the buffers will be cut through at the part-line of the body and headstock once all has hardened - a bit like laying track across a base board joint then cutting it I suppose.

 

Oh well, I'll have to do it all again next session!

 

Colin