hartleymartin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) I was looking at a few pictures of various industrial tank locomotives and it occurred to me that it may be possible to do a conversion of the Ixion Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 Saddle Tank into a side-tank locomotive like one of the Manchester Ship Canal company's locomotives For those who are interested in the railways of New South Wales, the NSW Public Works Department operated two locomotives (no. 27 and 28) which operated in Port Kembla Harbour. I seem to recall that their leading dimensions were similar to the Ixion Hudswell Clarke, except that they were side-tank locomotives. The main points of work would be to remove the saddle-tank, fabricate a new top-half of the boiler and then add side tanks. (After choosing a suitable prototype as a reference point). Edited March 7, 2013 by hartleymartin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have also looked at this loco with similar thoughts. Do you have an Ixion Hudswell Clarke? I have some spare body parts I can let you have for some vivisection. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted March 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2013 The MSC tanks were in two sizes - short and long tanks - the KWVR and ELR both have short tank examples which were more attractive to my eye see http://www.uklocos.com/final-results.asp?action=display&id=6599 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hudswell Clarke also build tank locomotives to the same specification as the Hunslet "Jazzer" Class. I'm looking around for some drawings or data that will confirm dimensions such as wheelbase, wheel-size, spacing, etc to see if the Ixion Hudswell Clarke mechanism can be used for the basis of other locomotives, scratch-building/kit-bashing a new body on top. I have an irrational aversion to building a locomotive completely from scratch because I don't know how good the running mechanism will be. I suppose like many other modellers, I'd prefer to have a known mechanism that runs well as botched attempts at bodies are easier and cheaper to deal with than botched mechanisms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I think I've chosen the prototype to base the conversion on. Thanks to Dava and his suggestion: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bonedome/4063819917/ It is the MSC Short-tank Canal type locomotive. However, it seems to have a larger diameter boiler. I'll have to pull apart a model first and ascertain what is possible and what is practical before I want to start hacking up a perfectly good locomotive! Edited March 8, 2013 by hartleymartin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hudswell Clarke also build tank locomotives to the same specification as the Hunslet "Jazzer" Class. I'm looking around for some drawings or data that will confirm dimensions such as wheelbase, wheel-size, spacing, etc to see if the Ixion Hudswell Clarke mechanism can be used for the basis of other locomotives, scratch-building/kit-bashing a new body on top. I have an irrational aversion to building a locomotive completely from scratch because I don't know how good the running mechanism will be. I suppose like many other modellers, I'd prefer to have a known mechanism that runs well as botched attempts at bodies are easier and cheaper to deal with than botched mechanisms. Agenoria do a JAZZER is 7mm, so in theory you could buy the basic kit and sit it on the chassis, assuming the clearance is there, and the dimensions right Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yes, it is proving somewhat difficult to find the data on the wheelbase, etc online. From what I can tell, the Hudswell Clarke has 3'3-1/2" wheels and 11'6" wheelbase (5'6" + 6'0") I suppose that it is possible for people wanting different locomotives to purchase a kit minus wheels, motor, gearbox, etc and then mount the body on the HC chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well, the Ixion Hudswell Clarke has a wheelbase of 5' 9" + 5' 9" (as per the well known drawing of Easingwold Railway No. 2 in Model Railway Journal No. 31, 1989) but even nominally very similar products were not the same. For example GCR Class 4 No 278 'Humber', later LNER No.5278, appears to have a wheel base of 6' 2" + 5' 8"; I scaled this from a side view photograph, so I don't know for certain but the wheel base is certainly not equal. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 In 'the other house', as Barnaby so whimsically put it, I have now begun a description with captioned pictures on reworking my Ixion HC 0-6-0ST into GCR No. 278 Humber. If you think this would also be of interest in ‘this house’, just let me know and I’ll put it here; having done it once, it’ll be but little more effort to do it a second time so I'd be quite happy. David [aka DLOS in 'the other house’] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Not knowing what 'the other house' is, and having an interest in any kind of alterations to these little locos, I'd love to hear more about your work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'm contacting a local (Sydney) manufacturer about getting reject components from one of their kits. There were a few side-tank Hudswell Clarkes in Australia, but they had their boilers replaced with a standard {!} boiler from another class of locomotive. It may be possible for me to model one of these locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 "Not knowing what 'the other house' is" I’m sorry; I didn’t mean it to be an ‘in joke’. Anyway, ‘the other house’ is the Gauge 0 Guild Forum (sharp intake of breath?), which I’ve never seen named here other than as ‘the other house’ (a term often used by members of the House of Commons when referring to the House of Lords, without actually naming it/them). “I'd love to hear more about your work!” Fair enough. As I said, I’m more than happy to do that; I’ll get onto it. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I plan to rework my Ixion Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST to be Great Central Railway class 4 No. 278 ‘Humber’ of 1909 which was originally a contractors loco but entered GCR ownership in 1911. I made a start, in an odd moment, by turning up a Robinson GCR chimney. I have retained the original saddle and, when I have finished all the other reworking, I will blend the turning into it with some filler. As I have other locos in the works for ‘heavy generals’, I thought it best not to completely dismantle the HC as well but rather to work on parts that I can substitute so that the loco is always complete, although not finished. I realize that this approach will come unstuck eventually, but it’ll do for now. I decided to replace the coupling rods next. The Ixion model has unusual (but correct for their chosen prototype) coupling rods that are ‘jointed’ on the central crankpin rather than with a knuckle joint on one of the rods. As well as the more conventional knuckle joint, Humber had ‘marine bigends’ with half-brasses that were adjusted with a cotter pin; this form was common on the older locos, such as Easingwold No 2. I have made conrods and coupling rods from scratch before and I have milled them out of solid steel. Above is a set for Wantage Tramway No. 5 Jane which I started as the Model Railway Journal 7mm project in 1999 with the intention of keeping up – no chance. Even if I hadn’t been working full-time I could not have kept up so I set it aside to finish ‘when I have more time’ and, until the Ixion HC came along, it was actually my next small loco project. (Anybody else stall on this project? I can recall only ever seeing two built locos but the two MRJ brass casting packs come up for sale occasionally, so I know others must have intended to build a No. 5 at one time.) As Vic Burles points out in his recent article ‘Digital Modelling’ (MRJ No. 221), holding the job whilst milling out such complex shapes is quite a challenge and so I decided that, this time, I would mill out the individual parts from nickel silver, tin them all over and assemble them just as I would etchings in a kit. The face of the brasses are plain rectangles of brass shim soldered (with an RSU) onto the rod ends and then drilled through from the back. The cotter pins were filed up from 0.8mm round and inserted into vertical holes right through the ends. Verdict: mistake; I shall not do it this way again, I’ll cope with the awkward holding down and mill from the solid as before. But I had to try it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, It was quite a lot of work and although I was pleased with the result (below) it was not less work, and rather more demanding on the nerves, than milling from the solid. Of course, because the Ixion model has short rear crankpins (accommodates one rod end), long centre crankpins (accommodate two rod ends) and a long, but packed out leading crankpins (accommodates one rod end away from the boss), I could not just replace the original rods with my new ones. I needed to drill out the old pins (I think they are moulded integral with the wheel) but, again, holding the job (the complete wheel set) firmly and accurately was going to be a challenge. It was worth taking a bit of effort over this though because, unlike the Ixion prototype and Easingwold No 2, Humber did not have balance weights on the centre (driving) wheels so I was going to have to mill them out. (I did briefly think about asking Chris at Ixion if I could buy a set of leading/trailing wheels but that would have been a bit of a cheek and would have made my problem his problem, which didn’t seem fair to me.) As you may see (above) I clamped a V-block to the rotary table and then clamped the wheel set in the V so that it was firmly and accurately held. Using a 2mm diameter slot drill, and by twiddling the various handles (X and Y on the milling table and angular on the rotary table) and with a clear head, I machined out the unwanted material. Once through the plating, the aluminium casting machined beautifully with a very satisfying result. Above, illustrates i) before, ii) after milling out the weight, and iii) after cleaning up with a file and with the old pin milled off and drilled out. By now, I was back on old ground and I needed only to make a set of crankpins but, to reproduce the plain head of the prototype I needed to make the pins hollow and tapped 12BA for 12BA cheese head screws that have the screwdriver slots faced off and opposing flats milled on to suit a 2mm AF spanner; although this leaves them ‘not quite’ round, it’s not something I think you’d likely spot without being told. So, to recap: this is what we had before: and this is what we have now: and from a distance: I’m not sure what I’ll attack next time I’m looking for a distraction activity – maybe the buffer planks, drawgear and buffers. Watch this space … As a post script to this phase: having completed the tasks, I dipped the former rods and screws in paint-stripper to remove the somewhat daubed on red paint and spurious shiny glue (and, in the process, destroying some unique oriental finger and thumb print art). I was quite impressed to find that I had a very decent, detailed set of rods and six nifty 1.5mm hex-head machine screws. If the rods on your model are similarly indistinct, a strip and repaint may well pay dividends. Now I just need to find an 0-4-0 prototype with a 5’ 9” wheelbase as I could well already have the rods to build two of them. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 I believe that a number of 0-4-0 saddle tanks had a 5'9" wheelbase. I was certain that Manning Wardle had one such type with 2'9" wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 I used to be dead-set against the plastic handrails on the HC, but now I think that it was a stroke of genius on Ixion's part, because they are exactly where most people would grab the locomotive, and they spring back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Interesting - I reckon stripping and either blackening or much-more-lightly respraying those connecting rods will be the first task. Now.... if anyone is actually disassembling one of these completely at any stage - is there any chance of seeing a photo of the chassis laid out below the body on a grid, to get an idea of the size/clearances of chassis against original body? There's an itchy little part of me that wonders how much work would be involved in turning the whole loco into a squat little freelance 0-4-0.... Firebox right forward, safety valves/whistle popping through the saddle tank that's hard against the shortened cab.... ...forgive my sins against Photoshop MS Paint... I think the cab/back-end overhang wants to be a little longer in reality. I just really like lil' locos!! - I should add, noticing that first and second axles are geared together was a big part of the inspiration... Should go without saying, I'm not afraid to get my razor saw blade dirty... Edited April 3, 2013 by flexible_coupling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 Interesting - I reckon stripping and either blackening or much-more-lightly respraying those connecting rods will be the first task. Now.... if anyone is actually disassembling one of these completely at any stage - is there any chance of seeing a photo of the chassis laid out below the body on a grid, to get an idea of the size/clearances of chassis against original body? There's an itchy little part of me that wonders how much work would be involved in turning the whole loco into a squat little freelance 0-4-0.... Firebox right forward, safety valves/whistle popping through the saddle tank that's hard against the shortened cab.... ...forgive my sins against Photoshop MS Paint... I think the cab/back-end overhang wants to be a little longer in reality. I just really like lil' locos!! - I should add, noticing that first and second axles are geared together was a big part of the inspiration... Should go without saying, I'm not afraid to get my razor saw blade dirty... Percy? Is that you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 That'd be Percy after a bit of a squish against the wall... *thinking more about it*I think I'd take that rear "bunker" right back to an almost flat plate, keep it really basic back there... And no "dome" for the safety valves, just right on top of the boiler... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 4, 2013 Author Share Posted April 4, 2013 And have that spring over the front axle... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Something keeps niggling me. And now I think I know why it doesn't look quite right - the saddle tank is just a bit too big and out of proportion for the loco. 4 wheelers had a smaller tank - study the Hudswell 0-4-0 s and it will become apparent. Tweak that a little and I think you've got it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Rear steps are also mis-aligned, but I'm not sure I should be encouraging such cruelty to our off-spring. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If you want to be picky, the firebox is having a personal space argument with the eccentrics! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Earlier I said “I’m not sure what I’ll attack next time … maybe the buffer planks, drawgear and buffers.” and, not wishing to start dismantling my loco just yet, whilst I still have other locos in the workshop, I decided to make replacement buffers with larger heads. The Ixion buffers stocks are made of brass and are glued into the buffer planks but, with a bit of bothering, wiggling and turning, they are soon removed to allow you to work on the complete buffer assembly. The buffer shanks are retained in the buffer stocks by a simple crimp in the end of the shank; this is easily removed by filing to separate the shank, spring and stock. The transformation from 13" to 16" diameter buffer head The Ixion buffer heads are 7.6mm in diameter (13”) and I made replacements of 9.3mm (16”), which is the best estimate that I could make from scaling off two photographs. They are a simple brass turning and are retained by a 12BA cheese head screw in the end of the shank. Crimped original and 12BA srew replacement Reassembly is a matter of moments and I shall be able to dismantle them again when I come to the painting stage. Before and After Now, I shall get back to the upgrading the rods and valve gear of my Finescale Brass Black Five and Jubilee … David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Nice job, the buffers make a huge improvement. Might have to talk my dad into that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajt Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Those new rods look the business. I'd love to see a step-by-step photo-journal of how you machine them... Regards, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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