RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2013 I woke up this afternoon (i've been on nights) and was stuck by the thought of whether or not it is possible to scratchbuild wagon underframes using only plasticard sheet. The difficult bit will be the axleguards, can they be made strong enough to do the job without being silly thick? The reason is that I have some doubledeck sheep vans that I have started the bodies for, but have no idea about the chassis.... Any one tried it? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hi Andy, I read an article many years ago which described using this method for most of the parts. The W-irons and parts of the brake gear were metal components though. I can't remember who it was, but the wagons were RCH coal wagons to P4 standards. The bit that stuck most in my mind was that all the bolt heads were idividually applied, made from 10 thou. cubes of plasticard! The wagons were equisite models. There are a few exponents of this art, including Adam, but even he wouldn't plastic for the 'hardware' (as far as I know). All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 9, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hmmm, whats the difference between plasticard ones and the moulded ones of kits then? Is it all about the material? Would resin ones be ok? Or does anyone know if the old ranges of w-irons in white metal are still available then? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hmmm, whats the difference between plasticard ones and the moulded ones of kits then? Is it all about the material? Would resin ones be ok? Or does anyone know if the old ranges of w-irons in white metal are still available then? Andy G Hi Andy, I would have thought etched and brake gear W-irons would be best, with white metal axleboes and springs. I do think the plastic moulded parts in kits are a harder grade of styrene than Slater's Plastikard or all the generic plastic sheet available. But that still leaves you with a lot of the underframe that can be made of plastic sheet. I've no experience of resin, but the quality is improving. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 10, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2013 My biggest problem is that I want stuff that is of Highland Railway origin (and I'm tight!), and it's pretty hard to get! If I get a minute I might try a bit of a play with some sheet and see how much it wibbles. I would have though that with the springs and axleboxes added the whole affair might be stiffer than we think? Andy g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I agree with Colin on this one. By all means make the solebars and buffer beams out of plastic - there is Evergreen strip that is available in a rectangular section of about the right proportions - but make the running gear up out of etched W-irons and use cast metal (or resin) springs and axleboxes. You can either go for one of the existing castings that is a close match or, if that is not good enough, make up one axlebox and get it cast in either whitemetal or resin so that you get a batch to cover the next few wagons. Hope this helps Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If you can find someone to do it (or who is doing it), 3D printed axleboxes and buffers are pretty good. All my scratchbuilt wagons use etched W irons - I think it's essental, really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Stick with the metal running gear; any cost saved is likely to be offset by having to make the wagon again. Unsupported or undersupported plastic sheet at the thicknesses required - 20 thou or less - will warp or deform after a period of time and this will result in wagons being damaged or failing to run properly. That said, if there's enough meat around the axlebox it might work but why reinvent the wheel? If you're scratchbuilding wagons then you're unlikely to be making dozens at one go so the cost is spread. If you think about it in broad terms, an injection moulding (broadly) is analgous to a metal casting and thin sheet metal sheet has very different properties which is one of the reasons that drain covers are cast rather than made from steel plate). You can, if you wish, fret W irons, etc., out of metal sheet, but this takes time which you might want to spend doing other things: if you're working in an unusual scale or want a single vehicle that's out of the ordinary with no common parts then why not? If you look at Geoff Kent's indispensible volmes on building 4mm wagons show that Geoff makes use of plastic sheet for making things like axleboxes, springs and brakeshoes on occasion and there's no reason why you shouldn't make such things yourself if you're capable of working consistenly and neatly enough (and anyone can be if they're prepared to be patient and practise). The articles Colin has in mind might well be by Chris Crofts in an early MRJ, but building wagons in plastic sheet isn't exactly a novel idea. Almost all, however, will have used metal running gear for the sake of durability. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Didn't Peter Denny of Buckingham scratch all his wagon underframes ( and the bodies too) from plasticard including the springs and axleboxes? Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Didn't Peter Denny of Buckingham scratch all his wagon underframes ( and the bodies too) from plasticard including the springs and axleboxes? Mike Wiltshire Not sure - I would be surprised if he did, if only because I doubt that plastic sheet was readily available when he started. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted March 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2013 Parkside Dundas will supply any mouldings upon request at reasonable prices if you are on a budget. Remaking axle box covers from scratch to overlay is an econonmic method. I use 10thou plastic and punch rivets from the rear then laminate this onto thicker material. There is a scratch built dia37 fish van. built using these methods in my blog (below). Hope this helps, Shaun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hi Andy, I would have thought etched and brake gear W-irons would be best, with white metal axleboes and springs. I do think the plastic moulded parts in kits are a harder grade of styrene than Slater's Plastikard or all the generic plastic sheet available. But that still leaves you with a lot of the underframe that can be made of plastic sheet. I've no experience of resin, but the quality is improving. All the best, Colin I used to make wagons out of plasticard, but with MJT 'W' irons and ABS white metal brakegear and buffers. They were fine and an interesting introduction to the disciplines of scratch building. The 'rivets' were made from plastic sheet that was embossed with a light tap from a hammer and centre punch; then they were 'harvested' using a scalpel. I gave up after a while as so many white metal and plastic kits came on the market. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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