Tim V Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Personally, I would like to congratulate anyone willing to show their Models to the public, I have been asked to take my model of Llanfyllin to a show and am really nervous. It does make me wonder how many of the critics model and what stand.they model to. I Don't let the detractors get you down. Exhibiting is a positive thing, OK it doesn't always go right, but its worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Personally, I would like to congratulate anyone willing to show their Models to the public, I have been asked to take my model of Llanfyllin to a show and am really nervous. It does make me wonder how many of the critics model and what standard they model to. Edited: As I originally posted this on my "Smart" Phone Modelling is like everything in life, you cannot please everyone. Exhibiting is very rewarding and you will find that it's gets quite addictive. Most people say nothing, they just watch. A good number will compliment or thank you. The odd one will criticise. We find that having your prototype research with you can counter many points raised as they are often things like that loco never worked there, that colour Is wrong or similar, no big problem and nothing to be nervous about. Good preparation before the show will also make things easier in the day - clean all loco wheels and the track before the show and you will find the stress is much reduced. If you have th opportunity to show your layout then you should. If it doesn't quote work as you hope then you will learn and hopefully be inspired to do it differently next time. I am building my 4th exhibition layout and this is building in improvements needed to the previous 3, I have had errors pointed out to me down the years which I lo aim to avoid with the new layout but being humn, something else will be wrong no doubt. In terms of critics modelling, you will never know. For the person involved in this issue, he does model and to a high standard and has done so for many years and has been manager at various exhibitions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGRL Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 As the builder of the box hedge with annoying seagulls which the general public liked a great deal but railway modellers will not mention, all I can say is that Wigan IMO was a fantastic exhibition and the welcome and general professionalism of organisation was excellent. Thank you Stephen and gang for a great weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontal Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Normally, I don’t post anything on this or any other forum, but in the case of the nasty comments made elsewhere on the Internet about the organisers and some of the exhibitors’ layouts that appeared at this year’s Wigan Show, I am going to make an exception here…….. The fact that the vitriolic and destructive comments, were made by not only a fellow exhibitor at the show, but by the former manager of a well known large exhibition as well, - well, to me that makes matters even worse! Although he may ‘model and to a high standard and has done so for many years and has been manager at various exhibitions’, that is absolutely no excuse for what he has done and the hurt that he has caused to so many people! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2013 The half hearted "apology" on the other forum reads as if it has been written by or for a poltician. The "apology" is to anybody who was "unintentionally" offended. Which means it is aimed at nobody. I really can't believe that anybody has been offended unintentionally! Nice try but how about a proper apology from Andy C, perhaps even a personalised one to the layouts and individuals he was so quick to name in his original post? That way we could all draw a line under this unhappy episode and start playing nicely again. How about it? Olive branches, peace and reconciliation all round....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 A couple of videos featuring subtle DCC sound taken at Wigan: 1) Troutbeck Bridge by Andrew Butler 2) Portchullin by Mark Tatlow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonte Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Troutbeck Bridge: Fabulous!!!!! Wigan, for me, could be considered a local show; ironically, I was at the other end of the country that weekend but, oh, how I wish I could have been there if only to have seen Troutbeck. Well done Mr.Butler. I shall look out for your work of art on the circuit!! And thanks for sharing, black & decker boy: excellent quality vid, expertly shot. Jonte Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Some photos, the Cliff Railway on Cliffhanger. Woodfield Road, complete with Station illumination. Clutton, with a Prairie Tank approaching the station. All action on Dorehill St. Stevens The immaculately attired Crew, who is that says Railway Modellers are scruffy. Shunting on The Ruxley Branch. Coal Traffic on St. George's Quay. and finally, its all action on Overlord II, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2013 Nice to see the thread back on the subject of the rather good layouts on view at the show. Very nice videos and photos and many thanks for posting them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Having read this thread, may I ask why if someone attends an exhibition why they are not allowed to make anything other than positive comments? I received some quite nasty comments when I mentioned an issue with the York show with which I wasn't happy and some people seemed up in arms! People will have their opinions of everything they experience, good and bad. You can't please all the people, all of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Simms Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 James, I think the comments expressed here are fair and honest. However to paraphrase you, the comments on another forum were "quite nasty". It's all about how we put our comments across in a hopefully friendly and constructive manner. Opinions are like backsides; we all have one and they all need wiping from time to time. Personally, I find much of the content of bigger shows (and this includes Wigan) not to my taste. Large layouts especially in OO and to some extent N and O are of little interest to me; I personally think that they often lack character. Similarly, the swathes of Bachmann and Hornby boxes hold no allure at all. However, I appreciate that a good proportion of the visiting public do like these things, so really it's fruitless to be continually banging on about it. If I then, hypothetically, didn't like the concept of say Cliffhanger (a layout at Wigan), it's doubtful that I ought to specifically mention this on a public forum. To call it a "privet hedge" or words to that effect is just plain rude. On the other hand, if a particular layout operates consistently badly over a show, I think it's fair to point this out. An operating layout really ought to work. It's just a case of being civil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Two more videos, non DCC, from Wigan: 1) Law Junction by East Neuk MRC 2) Melton Mowbray (North) By John Spence and Steve Weston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGRL Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It is extremely easy to sit down and tear exhibitors layouts to bits on some forum. It is very expensive in money and effort to build an exhibition layout and go to the trouble of exhibiting it. As an example, let's look at the 'hypothetical Cl*ffh*anger' (it remains 'nameless', following a post here). It is a model of a railway in a REAL landscape. It was designed as another way to display and was always intended to be more an animated piece of installation art than yet another layout which looks the same as all the others. It is built for exhibition. This means it was intended to be viewed by the general public as well as those in the hobby who try to force us all to comply with some unwritten rule as to what a model railway should look like. It is an actual section of North Somerset cliffs and the rock formations are accurately modelled. The 'box hedge' is actually as it REALLY looks like. I made enough low level photographic passes in an aircraft to ensure that it does. Sessile oak forests just happen to look like this from the viewing distance. It just happens that no one has acually modelled a section of REAL forest before it would seem. It appears that some modellers never look out of the window at the real countryside but just model other people's model railways. The railway and funicular are of course imaginary. REAL narrow gauge railways do not have a visible working train in sight at all times either, BTW. Gosh, on Cl*ffh*nger, one has to wait 2.5 minutes before more trains appear. Unforgivable, it would seem. During this time, the funicular continues to operate (a major advance in technology there BTW) and the working waterfall is available to see (also a new idea which took a very long time to develop). Since showing this layout, it has constantly been described as 'hateful' in one way or another by some model railway fans and equally it has been loved by the public, who are, after all, what public exhibitions are about. I shall now quote what has been said about it from another forum. Similar comments have been made elsewhere, BTW. ''Cliffhanger? Id take that name to the trades descriptions as all I saw was 12 foot of box hedge with a tiny bit of half decent modelling (the cliff railway) on one end''. and.................. ''I wholeheartedly agree with your opinions of Cliffhanger, I really struggle to see how and why people are so impressed with it....'' Apart from the fact that it is 16ft of box hedge and not 12ft it is quite disheartening to be at the end of such comments, which have appeared on a number of fora. I never expected everybody to like a very different model railway but is it a crime to produce a different style of model? For my part, I have now stopped modelling and have returned to other past times. Cl*ffh*anger is my last and will be converted from installation art to process art by burning it after last booked exhibition. I for one have had enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 IGRL. We had a couple of long chats on Saturday. I fail to see how your work of art can be described as anything but a Model Railway, there have been many examples at exhibitions which qualify less. It is a railway in a landscape - which is what we all aim for It is fictional - A lot of Model Railways are (I have just deleted a rant) as after rereading, I think this thread is about Wigan which I believe the above is. I still think Wigan was a good exhibition, with plenty of variety in scales from T to G including the "so called" finescale ones, I have finally downloaded my photos and will post some this evening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2013 I don't think that anybody on here or on the other forum has ever said that people can't have opinions and can't express them. What you have to remember is that the people who build the layouts, the people who run the exhibitions and the people who visit the exhibitions are, more often than not, just model railway enthusiasts. We enjoy (usually) a mutual interest in building layouts and little trains. So when you start making the wrong sorts of comments about certain layouts and individuals, you need to remember that one day, you might find yourself plonked next door to that person/layout at a future show and that could easily make for a very uncomfortable weekend! Do we really want a hobby where people are saying "I will bring my layout but only if such and such isn't coming", or "I won't take my layout to such and such a show because XYZ said the exhibition manager is an idiot and it is a rubbish show to take a layout to." or even "If that bloke who was so unpleasant on the internet has anything to do with this show, I will stay at home" or "I was going to build an exhibition layout but if I do a might get torn to bits on the internet so I won't bother."? I certainly don't but that is what will happen if we don't act with a degree of politeness and respect for others. So by all means, express disapproval but do it in a way that causes no offence. It is quite easy to say "I am not too keen on Cliffhanger. I am not familiar with that sort of landscape so I struggle to relate to it. However it always seems to get a good crowd of admirers and it is certainly spectacular and a great example of thinking "outside the box" in layout design." without being offensive about either the layout or the people who do like it! Incidentally, it would be a great shame of the builder of Cliffhanger doesn't do more. He is not only a highly innovative and creative thinker and modeller but also a real character and the hobby would be poorer without him around. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 This topic is now re-opened for further contributions of images and disciplined discussion of the event; postings aimed to inflame arguments and any subsequent responses have been removed and posting abilities removed in this topic where appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Some more photos. The Station at New Mere. Now you see them, now you don't on Furka Oberalp. The Art Deco Train on Cliffhanger. I hope this is the Coal Drops on Felton Lane. Gardener's World visits Farringdon. An overview of the Clutton scenery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 This is not meant to inflame but is a genuine question. Clutton was a very nice model landscape but some of the buildings gave a very odd hue, almost a purple haze. They looked to be home printed paper or card. Is my assumption right that they are home printed and perhaps the ink is starting to wash out? This aspect kind of put me off a little though I did like the greenery and the other buildings that were plastic or plaster cast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 This is not meant to inflame but is a genuine question. Clutton was a very nice model landscape but some of the buildings gave a very odd hue, almost a purple haze. They looked to be home printed paper or card. Is my assumption right that they are home printed and perhaps the ink is starting to wash out? This aspect kind of put me off a little though I did like the greenery and the other buildings that were plastic or plaster cast. Not sure I can help you there, but I hope you are not going by my photos as I have had to do a little photoshop adjustment to make them look half decent. I was taking them in a bit of a rush. I really liked Clutton, but then I like models that put the railway in its landscape context, that's just my thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 They are printed at home on an inkjet printer. I haven't noticed a purple haze (Hendrix moment), but I was having problems with the lighting, some of the halogens had failed, and there might have been some leakage of the hall lighting. Do you have any pictures that show this, or was it an effect you experienced at the time? Can you tell me the position of the buildings - being printed I can soon change them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Not sure I can help you there, but I hope you are not going by my photos as I have had to do a little photoshop adjustment to make them look half decent. I was taking them in a bit of a rush.I really liked Clutton, but then I like models that put the railway in its landscape context, that's just my thing. No it was something I spotted at the time and couldn't work out if it was my eyes. But conversations since the show suggested the washed out ink theory. I also like trains in a landscape and thought Clutton very good in that respect, except the purple haze. It was the white / grey coloured buildings that were at the right hand end that seemed to glow the most. The other answer could be a rogue ultraviolet build in the hall? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Cliffhanger with Goods train leaving station Clutton Faringdon (Brilliant to see after I spent so long studying it in the Books Overlord II ( HMS Grenville, I can remember seeing this in Portsmouth Harbour in the 70@s after I joined the Navy) Rowington for Shrewley Does anyone know where the Cattle Truck came from? and finally the reason I didn't have so much to spend, A Dalek offering to Exterminate everyone in Robin Park Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Just pulled the buildings out and looked at them in the remains of the daylight here. Plus compared the buildings you mentioned with ones further along the layout. Under close scrutiny, there is some blue in the stonework, but I couldn't see any purple haze (or fringing), or significant difference in the colours between the buildings. I couldn't see any fading either, however, the next show is in February, they may have faded by then. I will though bear your comments in mind next time that the layout is erected under its own lighting, and have a good look. A layout owner can become blind to what others see as obvious, so thanks for the heads up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Just pulled the buildings out and looked at them in the remains of the daylight here. Plus compared the buildings you mentioned with ones further along the layout. Under close scrutiny, there is some blue in the stonework, but I couldn't see any purple haze (or fringing), or significant difference in the colours between the buildings. I couldn't see any fading either, however, the next show is in February, they may have faded by then. I will though bear your comments in mind next time that the layout is erected under its own lighting, and have a good look. A layout owner can become blind to what others see as obvious, so thanks for the heads up. Blue / purples - probably the same under more intense light. It was probably not a glaring luminescent light with the buildings but my eyes caught it as unlifelike but hard to describe exactly - purple haze was the best I came up with, though I do now have the song rattling round my head endlessly! The other structure that might have faded was the church where the steeple was a different shade than the main shell though this may be prototypical as churches can be oddly built. It didn't have any purple haze, just different colours / shades. I know from having my own layout how other people spot things you miss, I always just hope they miss the things I spot or knew about as I built it. We have learnt something for Eskmuir following Wigan with another modeller of ScR offering period mixing advice that I had not worked out and which was letting us down - yellow ends with late 50s steam & stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted June 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2013 I know from having my own layout how other people spot things you miss, I always just hope they miss the things I spot or knew about as I built it. We have learnt something for Eskmuir following Wigan with another modeller of ScR offering period mixing advice that I had not worked out and which was letting us down - yellow ends with late 50s steam & stock. Some things can go completely unnoticed, like the immaculate pre 1936 liveried horsebox on Felton Lane, set in 1947... Oops, everyone will point it out now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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