RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2013 I'm having trouble finding the running numbers for the R1 single-arc roof all First 4-wheelers (as of 1906 before the renumbering). I do not have a prototype photo and neither Harris nor Russell provide the numbers. The latter mentions there were just 8 built, so he must have known the numbers! The coach I have restored did not have a number, maybe for the same reason. Can anyone help? Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I'd also be interested to know because as of today I have a kit for an R1. On a related note the kit also has a 3 centre roof and is described as a composite on the etch. The body bears the same markings to the floor as the V5 kit that I also have. I know it's definitely not a V5 or a composite but I'd be interested to know if they were built or rebuilt with 3 centre roof? I fear these kits need approaching with caution. Mikkel, There was an article or series if articles by J Lewis in one of the magazines in the early 80s? about the short coaches. This might yield the answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I do not have a prototype photo and neither Harris nor Russell provide the numbers. The latter mentions there were just 8 built, so he must have known the numbers! Not necessarily - he may have only had a batch list that identified the number built. I don't know of any other source. I don't recall seeing anything on the R1 in any of my old MRCs or MRNs. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 If these were the first firsts in the lot list would the numbers not be 1-8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 18, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 Many thanks gentlemen for these comments. The R1 I have is scrachbuilt but is identicial to the diagram in Russell Vol 1 p44. Rich, it is interesting that you mention having an R1 with a three arc roof. Is it a 2mm kit you have? In 4mm, the Shirescenes range had an R1 in their kits of etched sides for the Ratio sides. It has now been withdrawn, because it was actually wrong for the three-arc Ratio ends. I see now that there is also a Falcon 4mm version of the R1, never knew that. Going by these notes, the John Lewis article was in 1981. AFAIK it dealt mostly with classifying the coaches for identification.The Penhros site is developing a guide to the Lewis system: http://www.penrhos.me.uk/LewisClassification.htm The thought that they would be numbered 1-8 also crossed ny mind (post 1907 that would make it 8001 etc). So does this mean we actually have a coach that we can give the number "1" ?! Perhaps we ought to ask John himself, over on the GWR e-list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 18, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 Turns out that Mercian models have an R1 in their 10mm range - they have numbered the sample 536 as you can see here: http://www.modelrailways.tv/10mm-rolling-stock-page-1.html - but on what basis I have no idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 A source I have found suggests that 536 was given to a diagram R2 but to me that does not look like an R2. I would go with 1 if that appeals. Are you a GWSG member? Mikkel, The kit I have is the shire scenes 2mm kit. They have quite obviously reused large parts of the artwork for different kits (and why not where appropriate) by changing the sides but leaving the body bearing the legend from another; 'V5' for example. I think the ends can be made into single arc without toouch trace. What was somewhat dissapointing is that it is described as a composite and without a picture I was, understandably, hoping for a composite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 My notes suggest that number series was indeed used for R2. Some of them (including 537, but not 536) were on 4 wheels by 1908. A couple at least were made into composites 2-1-1-2 but were taken off diagram R2 and renumbered. I can't find my details for R1. They were old enough that they might have had flat ends without the turn-under. The R2 were downgraded to 3rds by 1915 so I would imagine the R1 would have gone the same way even earlier. I would hazard a guess that the numbers 1, 2, 3, etc were in use on older undiagrammed stock so would not have been available when the R1s were built - for instance those numbers in the 3rd class range were allocated to the S3 but not until Lot 175, the sixth lot to be built. The same numbers in the 2nd class series were used on Lot 142 which later were allocated to diagram S2. This must have been rather confusing as the rest of diagram S2 were built as 3rds. Oh dear! I think I'm probably making it even more compicated. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 We (Mikkel) asked on the e-list and got answers that the 8 R1s were built on lot 141 and were given numbers 1 through 8. Two were converted to composites before the 1907 renumbering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 We (Mikkel) asked on the e-list and got answers that the 8 R1s were built on lot 141 and were given numbers 1 through 8. Two were converted to composites before the 1907 renumbering. Ah, thanks. All doubt dispelled. Interesting that they were built on the lot preceding the S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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