Mystery object departing Booths scrapyard, also marine engines

[New Haven Neil]

I didn't sail on any opposed piston B&W's so have no idea - the J type Doxfords were turbo charged though, and all the others I sailed on.

 

Useless info dept.  The Doxford 76J6 in the Warwickshire had an experimental crankshaft which gave more lead to the upper piston, in an attempt to gain more turbo boost, as this was a pulse turbocharged arrangement.  I think IIRC she had 11 degrees lead, anyway, the result was she was an absolute swine to start astern, especially if she got a bit cool (totally manual engine room, including liner/piston coolers).

 

The result eventually was a near miss in Hong Kong harbour with a Russian passenger boat, a young NHN at the controls getting screamed at by the bridge, double ring astern.....we got 110 rpm astern, which made a hell of a racket, floor plates jumping and relief valves lifting, and just stopped in time. Like twenty feet off.....eek.  We left the biggest cloud of black smoke across Honkers you have ever seen, lucky not to get fined.  If it had been California we would have been shot.  There was a lock out on the control stand to stop you putting too much fuel on until the engine had started, this had been modified with a little plunger by previous engineers who presumably had the same experience.  Didn't always get you out of trouble though. 

 

The Old Man bought me a drink that evening, he thought we had had it, he was well aware of the issues with starting astern but the pilot had gone into the anchorage a bit hot, before the Old Man took over and saved the day.  She was a fast ship, I presume the pilot hadn't looked at the manoeuvring speeds, I think she did 15 knots at manoeuvring full ahead, 19 or more full away.  If he was used to plodding about in tankers maybe he was caught out.  I can't repeat what the Old Man said about him!!!

 

Our later vessels with the same engine had less lead to the upper pistons, needless to say.

[Gruffalo]

"Do you want another start of the main engine, or are you going to have another toot on the ****** whistle" was something I remember telling the sun deck in San Diego when the pilot had been ahead astern ahead astern ahead astern, all accompanied by multiple blasts on the ship's horn our poor old air compressors just couldn't cope!

[62613]

"Do you want another start of the main engine, or are you going to have another toot on the ****** whistle" was something I remember telling the sun deck in San Diego when the pilot had been ahead astern ahead astern ahead astern, all accompanied by multiple blasts on the ship's horn our poor old air compressors just couldn't cope!

Oh, yes! Oh yes! Were you bridge control? One or two pilots and O/Ms were a bit 'enthusiastic' with manoeuvring, weren't they.

[New Haven Neil]

As a long suffering 4/E I was always keen to keep the hours down on my compressors!  Bridge control was the bane of our lives, yes.

 

Was it 12 starts you were supposed to be able to have from full bottles?  Memory is fading, middle age is pants.

[ozzyo]

Oh, yes! Oh yes! Were you bridge control? One or two pilots and O/Ms were a bit 'enthusiastic' with manoeuvring, weren't they.

Hello all,

 

having not worked on ships, but worked in a shipbuilding yard I am liking this thread, some of the terms I can get 4/E = 4th engineer etc. but this has me guessing O/Ms, is it the old man (captain), as I have just wrote this I think that I have just answered my own question.

 

Please keep them all coming, seeing the video of the Doxford? (if I have got the engine type wrong sorry) engines running was a bit hypnotic as you stated to watch all the top parts going up and down. 

 

Now it's daft question time, were these engines like a two stroke with the top part opening and closing the ports instead of the piston doing this job?  Or were they 4 stroke without turbos. so that when the "head" moved up it would get a larger amount of "mix" in and could compress it more, for a given speed.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

OzzyO.         

 

PS. we are still building steam ships here. The only yard that does in Britain.

[62613]

Neil, you are correct, 12 starts; with the air receiver inlet valves closed? Ozzyo, the engines were 2-strokes, I think those in the video weren't turbocharged, but the ones I sailed with (see above) were. Scavenging was  achieved as you suggested, by the pistons, bottom and top, uncovering ports in the liner at the outer ends of the stroke. 

 

On another note, I have heard that there was a patent dispute between Doxford and B&W, over calling the B&W type an opposed piston engine. B&W changed the name of theirs and it became an 'exhaust-piston' engine.

[Gruffalo]

Oh, yes! Oh yes! Were you bridge control? One or two pilots and O/Ms were a bit 'enthusiastic' with manoeuvring, weren't they.

This was in the days of just a telegraph and a telephone (windy-windy too) Neil. I was 2/E on a products carrier at the time and we had a very friendly bunch of ocifers on at that time; I had been a 2/E for some time and had a Combined Chief's ticket so wasn't that worried if I upset anyone although I also didn't expect any grief.

12 starts was always the specification for the bottles, how big were the air compressors was another matter!

[Gruffalo]

Hello all,

 

having not worked on ships, but worked in a shipbuilding yard I am liking this thread, some of the terms I can get 4/E = 4th engineer etc. but this has me guessing O/Ms, is it the old man (captain), as I have just wrote this I think that I have just answered my own question.

 

Please keep them all coming, seeing the video of the Doxford? (if I have got the engine type wrong sorry) engines running was a bit hypnotic as you stated to watch all the top parts going up and down. 

 

Now it's daft question time, were these engines like a two stroke with the top part opening and closing the ports instead of the piston doing this job?  Or were they 4 stroke without turbos. so that when the "head" moved up it would get a larger amount of "mix" in and could compress it more, for a given speed.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

OzzyO.         

 

PS. we are still building steam ships here. The only yard that does in Britain.

Hi Ozzy,

 

Nice to hear that you are still producing steamers, they are different beasts to motor ships. On Steamers, the 4/E looked after the evaporators - pure water being the lifeblood of a good steamship - and the other end of the chain, the effluent plant! In some companies (such as I worked with) the 3/E looked after generators / alternators and anything electrical except radar and radio, while 2/E had overall day-to-day charge of engine room matters including firemen, water treatment, cargo handling equipment and main engines ( that with C/E). C/E looked after planning, fuelling and liaising with the Skipper O/M but this was as I remember things before I left to work in a brewery late 70's.

 

I refuse to take my wife on a cruise ship but I wouldn't mind going back as a supernumerary engineer for a trip to see how things have progressed since I left.

[cunningduck]

Fascinating topic gents, being a young steam ship engineer it's good to hear that some things don't change!

[Gruffalo]

Fascinating topic gents, being a young steam ship engineer it's good to hear that some things don't change!

Good luck to you sir! I was much slimmer in the days when we had manually operated soot blowers throughout the whole height of the boilers. Summer up the gulf leaving port with a well soothed set of tubes meant we had a good sweat regardless of the time of day.

[Gruffalo]

Good luck to you sir! I was much slimmer in the days when we had manually operated soot blowers throughout the whole height of the boilers. Summer up the gulf leaving port with a well soothed set of tubes meant we had a good sweat regardless of the time of day.

Oops, this predictive text suggests soothed when I meant sooted!

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

the steamers the we build are a bit different to what most of you are thinking of, in that their big and black and go under water. Ie their nuclear subs.

 

OzzyO.

[New Haven Neil]

Only the boiler that's different!

 

Gruff, I agree mostly with your duty roster, bar we had electricians too, and cargo engineers (ranked the same as a 3rd) on the gas wagons.  As 4/E as well as compressors and bunkers, I also looked after the purifiers, evil things, I hated them!   I'll be happy never to see an Alfa-Laval again.  The third also did the main engine injectors for some reason, a job I liked to do also, found it very satisfying, especially after being shown a few dodges by a Sulzer factory man.

 

The odd one of our Chiefs wouldn't even step foot in the engineroom, lest they get dirty or something.  Ended up on one ship I sailed on that better remain nameless with 'somewhat' of an altercation between Chief and second, while we were changing a main engine liner at sea, and Chiefy was in the old man's cabin with his feet up, drinking! How they weren't both logged I don't know, fists flew.  (2nd won, by the way....)  Thankfully this dreadful display was an exception....most Chiefs were good blokes, helped and directed when needed and stayed upstairs counting fuel when they weren't!!!!!  Usually got a lot of knowledge from them too, they were good to help a keen young engineer with his development.  Got my Seconds (Motor) but promptly got made redundant, never used it since!