Great British Locomotives

[Il Grifone]

Its probably about the right price IMHO  .If you gave me that pile of bits I would charge at least 100 quid to put it together and  paint it to a basic standard .Far more if you wanted a scale chassis  and good motor ,gearbox .That would add 90 odd  quid just in parts .

I used to double the kit price  plus all the bits  as rough price guide to making a kit up.I made kits from DJH horrors to Ferro Suisse wonders .

 

I wouldn't argue about a commissioned kit assembly being around £100 for labour (considering all the time it takes it's probably not enough). Here, however, we have something that usually sells for around half that (or less). The second hand pre-owned market rarely takes assembly time into account and, in this case, there is the rather superior Bachmann model for anyone who wants a J39 (or the GBL version for shelf or layout decoration purposes). THere is not even the 'collectible excuse, as collectors tend to want the kit preferably unopened, or at least unassembled.  This example is hardly to what I would consider 'professional' standards of construction either. (Competent yes (apart perhaps from the thick paint) - I've seen worse.....)

[Il Grifone]

This is another subject with similarities to the B12 in terms of quantity of past product readily available. Four manufacturers offering versions at various times over the past thirty (or more?) years with the more recent models supplanting the earlier efforts. I would have thought that most folks with modelling intentions toward this class would very likely have already picked up s/h oldies as the opportunity offered, with the likely benefits of choice of liveries, some or all mechanism components present.

 

That's true, especially seeing this is a clone of one of the earlier examples (Hornby?). I suspect that a working* model would not cost a great deal more than GBL's static one. I believe the first R-T-R model of a 'Western' was by Trix in the sixties (I'm not sure if it was 1/76 or 1/80 scale though.) It is unlikely I will purchase one (Il Grifone is skint at the moment and already has a Lima one....)

 

* I'll ignore the qualities (or otherwise) of ringfield cowpat pancake motors. Personally, I've not had any bad ones.

[Brit70053]

That's true, especially seeing this is a clone of one of the earlier examples (Hornby?).

I think someone identified the source for this GBL Western as being the Lima Model, citing the moulded on head/tail lamps as the give away clue.

[Guest spet0114]

I think someone identified the source for this GBL Western as being the Lima Model, citing the moulded on head/tail lamps as the give away clue.

..and the over-deep window-ledge at the front of the cab.

[Guest spet0114]

For about the millionth time.  The only physical objects that are subject to copyright are unique works of art (i.e sculptures).   

 

So I'm free to produce and market an accurate scale model of one of the various industrial tanks that regularly masquerade as Thomas at preserved lines up and down the country and HiT or Mattel or whoever can't touch me?

Edited May 26, 2015 by spet0114

[Il Grifone]

So I'm free to produce and market an accurate scale model of one of the various industrial tanks that regularly masquerade as Thomas at preserved lines up and down the country and HiT or Mattel or whoever can't touch me?

 

There might be copyright in livery/logos, but not being a lawyer......

 

Once upon a time, I understand companies paid to have their name on models (for the advertising). Now it's the other way round!

 

Re the 'Western'; both the Lima and Hornby versions have issues. Now I could get the GBL one to detail up and leave my Lima body in pristine condition ('collectable' and all that.......)

Edited May 26, 2015 by Il Grifone

[Brit70053]

 Now I could get the GBL one to detail up and leave my Lima body in pristine condition ('collectable' and all that.......)

 

A true model railway enthusiast's mind at work here.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

So I'm free to produce and market an accurate scale model of one of the various industrial tanks that regularly masquerade as Thomas at preserved lines up and down the country ...

Well of course you are.

 

... HiT or Mattel or whoever can't touch me?

But if the copyright owners consider that features of what you are selling such as a face, livery and number closely enough resemble 'Thomas' they are free to do as they choose in bringing an action against you. Keep in mind that their deep pockets will probably buy some very effective legal representation.

[Smiffy2]

The character of Thomas comes from a copyright item (the books etc.) and so an unlicensed depiction would be a breach of copyright.

[railroadbill]

Re the GBL western etc.

Some years ago a friend had a trix western that ran with a rake of maroon coaches and looked good, as far as I can remember.

 

I had a Lima one that I sold before buying a Dapol one (which just about nails the complicated shape imho). Also got a couple of Lima ones in bits, so dont need gnl one, j39 next. I was going to use bogies with pony trucks to power a GBL class 45 but they are too short wheelbase.

for the co-co bit.

 

I'm staying near York at the moment and went to the nrm today. Coincidentally d1023 was in the workshop area so it was possible to see the roof and windscreen/cab details easily. Think those are areas where the Lima one needs improving. I'll post a couple of pics next week when I'm back near computer.

[APOLLO]

I bought a blue Trix "Western Vanguard" back in the early 70's.

 

I bought it from a sports shop just outside of Wigan, It was in the window with a couple of other Trix steam locos (which I also later bought). Went into the shop and asked "how much is the "Western Hydraulic" in the window ?, the girl shouts to the boss "How much is that westernised relic in the window ?" Much laughing all round.

 

Still have it and still runs OK. The coupling passes through a big hole in the front "apron".

 

I'll be on the lookout for a GBL one as a "mate" for my Trix relic !!!

 

Brit15

[Guest spet0114]

Popped into my local newsagents this evening to get some bread. Was quite surprised to notice a couple of GBL issues on the shelf - namely 4472 and the 28xx.

 

Neither appeals to me, but if anyone wants one I'm willing to get them and sell on at cost + postage. PM me if interested.

 

Cheers
Adrian

[46256]

Ref the western if as suspected a Lima clone intend to buy. I will then photograph my altered version ( brassmasters) alongside to show the altered cabs. I did not to my shame alter the stupid looking brake arrangements on the bogie, nor recess the cab handrails, nor fit the very good roof, fan detail. I put this down I'm afraid to being at heart a steam man..detail differences on diesels do not seem to jar the same way as they do on steam variants. I plead guilty as charged to any modem image lovers who may read this.

 

I did however replace the Lima pancake with an alternative inside one purchased from diesel trains , a Northern Ireland based company....excellent product identical to the previous model torque replacements. I kept the rail blue livery, a colour I once loathed but have grown fond of in my advancing years....nostalgia creeping up on me...

[Theo C. Cupier]

Happened to be in Warminster earlier this morning and nipped into WHSmiths.  Disappointed to find the partworks dispenser was devoid of GBL mags, but then noticed an assistant scanning a newly delivery.  On enquiring, found it contained  twelve, yes 12,  GBL Westerns.

They now have ten in stock after my visit, although I may be tempted to return later.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Went into the shop and asked "how much is the "Western Hydraulic" in the window ?, the girl shouts to the boss "How much is that westernised relic in the window ?" ...

What an excellent Mondegreen. That's going straight in the memory bank in case I ever discover a cheap working 52 and buy it for the layout. It'll need custom plates of course: 'Western Isedrelic', which will probably pass all but the sharpest enthusiast without comment.

[Guest spet0114]

Happened to be in Warminster earlier this morning and nipped into WHSmiths.  Disappointed to find the partworks dispenser was devoid of GBL mags, but then noticed an assistant scanning a newly delivery.  On enquiring, found it contained  twelve, yes 12,  GBL Westerns.

They now have ten in stock after my visit, although I may be tempted to return later.

Warminster must be a GBL hotspot then, most of the shops round our way have dropped their holdings to one or two of each issue.

[Horsetan]

Happened to be in Warminster earlier this morning and nipped into WHSmiths.  ..... noticed an assistant scanning a new delivery.  On enquiring, found it contained  twelve, yes 12,  GBL Westerns.

They now have ten in stock after my visit, although I may be tempted to return later.

 

Do let us know what "original" you think the clone is based on - Hornby, Lima....or the dreaded Trix?

[46256]

dear all as promised looks like the Lima version...my brassmasters adapted alongside for comparison

dear all as promised looks like the Lima version...my brassmasters adapted alongside for comparison

[46256]

Sorry for duplication my router playing me up...

[John M Upton]

Popped into the Bognor Regis WHSmiths this morning. Two Westerns present, one had a noticeably wonky bogie and it is definitely the Lima version with the moulded on tail lamps.

 

The body moulding was nice and crisp, almost better than the Lima original!

[Il Grifone]

Tilbury Asda had one this morning (still had when I left). As can be seen above, the window 'sill' is very pronounced and the wheels are featureless discs. the buffers are also too short.

To my eye, the maroon looks a bit too brown. It may be Asda's lighting, but the printed illustration seemed OK. It was really this that put me off - a complete repaint would mean nothing would ever get done......

 

Is the step merely a result of the glazing being too far back or is there a significant dimensional error?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Il Grifone

[tmz06003]

I picked up a GBL Western today in WH Smith in Edinburgh, my local Asda has stopped stocking the series due to problems with supply.

 

Loco is numbered as D1062 Western Courier, but of course this is easily changeable with new cast plates and numbers. The maroon livery is disappointing as it is very plastic in appearance. The BR symbol, is also disappointing in it's lack of detail. Cab side valances are black but should be maroon.

 

One of the bogie assemblies is unnecessarily complicated, which results in the wonky bogie syndrome mentioned above. One of the parts looks like it's a representation of part of the Lima motor!! I removed one of the centre bogie screws and relocated this at the outer end which cured the mis-shapen bogie, The other bogie is much more straightforward and built in a similar fashion to other GBL models.

 

One bonus with this one is that the cut out for the motor is present, complete with curved edges that may allow a Lima mechanism to be easily fitted, I don't have a Lima Western so can't confirm this. On other GBL models there is a solid chassis that needs cutting out to motorise.

 

The front windows are detachable and look as if they could be moved outwards slightly to partly cure the large front window cill. Separate interiors are fitted. The featureless wheels without axle hubs noted in a previous post are also disappointing.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Horsetan]

....Is the step merely a result of the glazing being too far back or is there a significant dimensional error?

 

The peak over the windscreen is a little too short, which can be corrected in the way suggested by the Brassmasters correction / detailing kit.

[46256]

The brassmasters conversion as recorded in a MRJ article. The kit contains the etched window replacements. It requires the sill to be shortened. The roof cowl, Allan Sibley recommended building it up with layers of plasticard...then filing to shape. I tried this and unhappy with result cut and then placed a small section of plastic just above the door thus moving the roof cowl forward. The rain strips which had been filed off were added with wire.

[46256]

Sorry to repeat your points horsetan hadn't read your link before posting...those pictures are worth a thousand words