Chemins de fer d?partementaux de la Haute-Vienne

[DavidB-AU]

Can anybody point me to any English language information tbout the metre gauge CDHV tramway based around Limoges? There are several French sites but Google Translate isn't always accurate with the translation.
 
As far as I can work out there are no remains, apart from a short section of track and one station in Oradour-sur-Glane (kept as it was on the day it was destroyed by the SS in 1944).

 

Cheers

David

[Joseph_Pestell]

I recall there being an article in the SNCF Society Journal - probably about 10 years ago now. Try via the Society website.

[SNCF stephen]

There have been several articles in the SNCFS journal and I wrote an article about the CDHV in one of the SNCF Journals that came out last year (I think it was the Spring edition). There is a viaduct that is in tact and there are plenty of the older station buildings along the roads that run through the area. 

 

Here is a link to the online version of the SNCFS journal. Apr 2005

 

I have two extensive French books on the Line 4 which ran from Limoges to Eymoutiers (that being my modelling patch). They contain extensive pictures and diagrams of the system. I found them very useful as background research. 

 

What is it about the system that you are trying to learn?

[DavidB-AU]

Thanks for the info. I just saw some pictures of Oradour-sur-Glane and was curious.

Cheers
David

[SNCF stephen]

Oradour Sur Glane is the only remaining section of trackwork and catenary:

 

As I mentioned earlier there are some interesting buildings still in situ over the former network. Here is a shot from Eymoutiers which has an impressive station building - which I am currently modelling (see my layout topic!):

 

I also got a snap of this one on the road to Peyrat-le-Château:

 

 

There are plenty more out there and I am hoping to spend some time this year seeing some of the buildings. 

I believe that some of the poles that used to hold the catenary up have been left in situ as either telephone wires or electricity wires but in a modified form. 

[Foulounoux]

I'll try and find out where I saw more detail on this, including a map of the tramways

http://www.oradour-souviens-toi.fr/pages/tramway/tramway.htm. Knew I'd seems it somwhere

 

 

 

In any case will be in the area at the end of the month the shop at road our normally has English books on a lot of the topics associated with the massacre

 

Some of the old tram halts are still standing on the RN141

 

Colin

[DIW]

What lovely atmospheric pictures of Oradour sur Glane, such pleasant surroundings.....

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

....then I read about the reason for their preservation.

How solemn I feel looking at the pictures again - the atmosphere is suddenly darkened.

 

Dave

[SNCF stephen]

What lovely atmospheric pictures of Oradour sur Glane, such pleasant surroundings.....

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

....then I read about the reason for their preservation.

How solemn I feel looking at the pictures again - the atmosphere is suddenly darkened.

 

Dave

Indeed it is a lovely part of the world that was deeply affected by the massacre. My article from the SNCFS journal last year detailed the involvement of the Tramway in the actions of the Resistance in our local area. The wider actions of the resistance near to where I stay had an impact on what happened at Oradour and the area was known as "little Russia" by the German troops owing to the Communist tendencies of the population and the fierce opposition they encountered. 

 

Just before the massacre a tram left Oradour bound for Limoges and was stopped by the Germans. They were detained as the massacre took place but eventually allowed to continue their journey to Limoges but not before shouting to the occupants of the tram that they had massacred all the inhabitants of the town. Most of the passengers disembarked before the tram got to Limoges and it arrived pretty much empty. 

 

A lot of the villages in the area were so fearful of the reprisals following resistance activity (due to this event and another one in Tulle) that they would leave their towns and sleep in the woods overnight if the resistance was being very active and there were Germans in the vicinity. 

 

It is worth noting that due to events like the Oradour Massacre that local people are still divided about the actions of the resistance and it has been said that the History Still Burns in the Limousin for this reason. 

[Pacific231G]

I've visited Oradour-sur-Glane twice and it is very moving (and sadly massacres of this type still happen sickeningly often) 

I couldn't understand why every building in the village had been almost destroyed by fire apart from the tram station and why the tram line and catenary seemed in such remarkably good condition. The answer was that the station was rebuilt after the liberation and continued to be used for several years until 1949. The village was rebuilt immediately to the north of the ruins and the D9 road that ran through it diverted to by pass the "Village Martyr" which became a museum so preserving about 600 metres of the tramway when the rest of the line was dismantled. 

[JeffP]

It's a shame I've only just seen this, having just got back from France yesterday. There is a station just like the one at Oradour less than a mile from the house we are renovating in France. It's at a place called La Forge, and is on the line from Limoges to St Mathieu. There is another just inside the Dordogne boundary near Piegut-Pluviers.

 

St Mathieu also has a nice station building. Next time I'm out, (hopefully Whit), I'll photograph all 3 for you.

 

The little station at La forge has been made into a museum with pictures, old tickets, maps etc, and still has it's full complement of tiles making up it's name. The old guy we bought our house off is one of the curators, and showed us round it last summer. He is 92 now, and was sent to Germany during the war as forced labour.

[SNCF stephen]

It's a shame I've only just seen this, having just got back from France yesterday. There is a station just like the one at Oradour less than a mile from the house we are renovating in France. It's at a place called La Forge, and is on the line from Limoges to St Mathieu. There is another just inside the Dordogne boundary near Piegut-Pluviers.

 

St Mathieu also has a nice station building. Next time I'm out, (hopefully Whit), I'll photograph all 3 for you.

 

The little station at La forge has been made into a museum with pictures, old tickets, maps etc, and still has it's full complement of tiles making up it's name. The old guy we bought our house off is one of the curators, and showed us round it last summer. He is 92 now, and was sent to Germany during the war as forced labour.

I'd be very interested in seeing those pictures. I find it fascinating that such an extensive network was able to be developed in this area. I read on one web site recently that there are people who want to bring the tram back but I suspect that it is more of a pipe dream than a serious possibility. 

[Andy Hayter]

It does seem surprising Stephan, until you realise that the Freycinet Plan resulted in a secondary rail system that prior to WW1 was over 22000km in total length - some standard guage, some metric and some lines which were neither.

[JeffP]

Some interesting pics here on Google, both recent and very old: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=old+station+at+la+forge&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.ZWU&biw=1440&bih=775&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=7t5rUYOzINGL4gSK94DIAQ#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=tramway+station+haute+vienne&oq=tramway+station+haute+vienne&gs_l=img.3...5687.22989.3.23436.27.27.0.0.0.0.48.1073.27.27.0.ekwqrh..0.0...1.1.9.img.x2ZauClryQU&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.bGE&fp=cd88ff5d49ac8706&biw=1440&bih=775

[SNCF stephen]

Some interesting pics here on Google, both recent and very old: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=old+station+at+la+forge&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.ZWU&biw=1440&bih=775&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=7t5rUYOzINGL4gSK94DIAQ#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=tramway+station+haute+vienne&oq=tramway+station+haute+vienne&gs_l=img.3...5687.22989.3.23436.27.27.0.0.0.0.48.1073.27.27.0.ekwqrh..0.0...1.1.9.img.x2ZauClryQU&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.bGE&fp=cd88ff5d49ac8706&biw=1440&bih=775

It has shown a whole load of pictures of Geordie La Forge the Chief Engineer of the USS Enterprise from TVs Star Trek!

[JeffP]

Really? Comes up with photos of the tramway system both old and historical, for me.

[Oldddudders]

Really? Comes up with photos of the tramway system both old and historical, for me.

Ditto.

[DIW]

Me too.

[SNCF stephen]

Ah yes, the problem stems from being at work where it appeared on both IE and Firefox as being our visored engineering friend from the Enterprise. Interesting to note that I have counted at least 4 of my pictures in that search category! 

 

I think there might be some merit in doing a proper survey of all the infrastructure that is left. However, it would take a long time to do and my wife would get rather annoyed if I went out driving for 3 or 4 days just to take pictures of old railway infrastructure. 

[Fat Controller]

Ah yes, the problem stems from being at work where it appeared on both IE and Firefox as being our visored engineering friend from the Enterprise. Interesting to note that I have counted at least 4 of my pictures in that search category! 

 

I think there might be some merit in doing a proper survey of all the infrastructure that is left. However, it would take a long time to do and my wife would get rather annoyed if I went out driving for 3 or 4 days just to take pictures of old railway infrastructure.

A carefully-planned series of walks, which 'just happen' to be along the routes of disused railways might be an idea. Especially if you can include visits to restaurants or other places of interest en-route..

[JeffP]

MY wife would see through that one.........

[Fat Controller]

MY wife would see through that one.........

It's worked for me for the last 35 years..

[SNCF stephen]

I have been doing some work on the Tram Station for my layout of Eymoutiers. Whilst it is not my best effort I am still quite pleased at the outcome:

And a final shot of the building next to an X2800:

It is made from card overlaid with textures that have been modified into the right shape and size for the model. Essentially I am making my own scalescenes type of kit. 

[JeffP]

I will be out there again from 25th May. I'll try and get some pics for you, but it's weather dependant...last time I was there, (Easter) it was cold and wet every day but one.

[Foulounoux]

Same 2 weeks ago, went out to get our house ready to rent out and at least there was no incentive to be in the garden

[JeffP]

I'm DREADING going back this Whit. The grass was just starting to grow, but it was too wet to cut it.

Since then it'll have had six weeks of rain and shine.......but not that warm.