bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Edit ( Body now confirmed to be by Varney, see later postings) A purchase from Ebay tonight, ??21, one of the older all metal bodied Athearn EMD SW1 1000HP switchers, late 1950's/60's vintage. Die cast Mazak body and chassis, with blackened diecast trucks and brass RP-25 type wheelsets Undecorated kit, it's claimed complete. It needs the handrails fitted, and a horn and a bell, but they may be in the box, but easy to replace if not with lost wax cast brass Kemtron ones that I have stored away. Being metal bodied it will need insulated Kadee coupling mounts, or the Bachmann made plastic versions to stop shorts to un insulted stock via the knuckle couplers. Nice model, very much better than the later plastic ones, it also ran very well. A friend had several and all ran about as good as you can get, silent and very slow. It is fitted, most unusually for Athern with a very sound motor, but the plastic versions never ran as well as the original. All ran about a foot in 60 secs as the slow speed, rarely bettered by other models. It does need the gearbox stripped and carefully serviced, and a good long run in, with Labelle gear grease added to the gearboxes, and universal joints. Lighting can be fitted, brackets built in end on chassis, and it can have light guide LED lamps for the cab markers etc. Original 1941 SW1 on the PRR Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 The finishing details have been queried, it will be painted in the PRR Black finish, as per the 1941 shot, with a satin cellulose black finish, 70% car matt black Halfords cellulose paint and 30% Rustins gloss varnish, thinned overall with 60% cellulose thinners. This is a very, very durable finish. The undercoat will be Halfords Red Oxide cellulose, thinned with about 70% thinners. This is applied with an airbrush, and as thin as practical, low baked to dry, and then top coated with the satin finish, and re- baked. The baking is done at about 90o C. The metal body casting is die cast Mazak, and is very durable, it will need added details like handrails, horn, and bells added, along with a selection of extra details on the ends, and piping etc. Most has to be added in to drilled socket holes, push fit with epoxy glue. This will stand the low bake finishing easily. The metal is best cleaned by scrubbing carefully with an abrasive powder cleaner like Vim, after any remedial work is done. A toothbrush is the best brush for this. A good metal surface finish can be got with fine brass suede shoes brushes as well. Mazak can be a bit patchy on surface finish, it needs evening out. Like all Mazak die castings it will need to be fettled, and filed and sanded along all the edges to remove any flash or relief mould marking, and smoothing any rough edges. I have not got any PRR transfers, so I will make the Keystone on the computer and print on transfer paper. The numbers can be Letraset types. I will try to find shots of the cab interior to add as well as full glazing of the cab. The cab side sun blinds and cab details cab be added in brass, cut and shaped. As it has a metal chassis, it will need insulated or plastic knuckle joints to work with any stock. I have an un-powered cabless calf unit already and will paint it to match the main unit. The mechanism on these metal versions is usually OK, but will need any flash removed from the transmission parts and a careful service and run in period. The motor is a five pole design, and it is possible to add a flywheel to one end if desired. Previous experience shows this motor to be excellent, and fully capable of exceedingly low speed running. The metal body helps with extra weight, but more can be added to the motor area, and in the unit roof. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 A bit of research on the net shows a lot of information available, complete operation manuals, etc and interior cab details, piping and wiring diagrams etc., ! The livery in the shot is not 1941, but post 1966 vintage. Originally had Pennsylvania in full on the side. Cab details from EMD manual Copyright EMD material (expired) Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Wow is that an oldie. But I'm pretty confident that it's not an Athearn shell...I suspect the shell is a Lindsey or perhaps Lincoln shell - I remember seeing one like this many moons ago. Athearn made some metal boxcar kits but to my knowledge did not make die cast metal locomotives. The motor and bogies are Athearn and dates from the late 1960s or early 1970s...I'm not certain about the frame itself. Athearn parts were so ubiquitous and inexpensive yet good that many manufacturers simply designed their products to use Athearn bits. I think that's what you've got here. Not that it matters ...oh, and that's an NW-2. An SW-1 has one exhaust stack, a shorter in length hood and a big toolbox nestled on the front platform under the radiator grill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 PRR Black? It should be DGLE (Dark Green Locomotive Enamel), also known as Brunswick Green (nothing like the Brunswick Green used on British locos). It looks close to black in some lighting, but is distincly green in most. As you have noted, that is a very late livery, with the late number font from when they were rationalizing the numbering to avoid conflicts during the merger with NYC. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 The EMD NW-2 shell might well be another maker, but I have only seen them on Athearn chassis, which was always definitely metal floored, even with the later plastic body, so the body was assumed to be early Athearn. I think all the Athearn versions over the years had the plastic universal joints and motor surround on the large 5 pole motor fitted. They changed in the late 70's to nickel finish wheels, rather than the brass finish fitted here. The designation with 2 exhaust stacks matches the EMD description in the EMD manual for the early type 2, (first batch of 1000 HP), and the shot source described it as black PRR livery, not the dark green livery, as per steam loco finishes. It would be interesting if it was Lindsay, a very rare maker, who I thought had stopped production in the early 1950's. The other body maker was Hobbytown of Boston, who also did their own chassis. It was one of the models never re-introduced after the bad fire there in the early 1970's. I have not personally seen a Lincoln body at all. Varney did a Mazak body, but it looked different in details, and may indeed have been a SW-1, with the shorter hood and radiator. The commercial seller on Ebay had a lot of early 50's/60's HO stock with it as well, same source I expect. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 The official PRR description of the Loco colour is indeed Brunswick green, but is a pure black with a high copper oxide content, and to all effects and purposes was dead black when new, but oxidised to a greener look on ageing. All lower loco parts were painted a true dead carbon black, the Brunswick was confined to glossy finished areas. Most PRR steamers looked "greener" due to the heat ageing the paint more. Bottles of Floquil PRR look pretty black to me, and I should say I worked for a firm that made reference laboratory colour comparators, and black is the very worst "colour" of all to match. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 This should match the EMD type for details, NW-2, from Wikipedia, in public domain. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 The EMD NW-2 shell might well be another maker, but I have only seen them on Athearn chassis, which was always definitely metal floored, even with the later plastic body, so the body was assumed to be early Athearn. I think all the Athearn versions over the years had the plastic universal joints and motor surround on the large 5 pole motor fitted. They changed in the late 70's to nickel finish wheels, rather than the brass finish fitted here. The designation with 2 exhaust stacks matches the EMD description in the EMD manual for the early type 2, (first batch of 1000 HP), and the shot source described it as black PRR livery, not the dark green livery, as per steam loco finishes. It would be interesting if it was Lindsay, a very rare maker, who I thought had stopped production in the early 1950's. The other body maker was Hobbytown of Boston, who also did their own chassis. It was one of the models never re-introduced after the bad fire there in the early 1970's. I have not personally seen a Lincoln body at all. Varney did a Mazak body, but it looked different in details, and may indeed have been a SW-1, with the shorter hood and radiator. The commercial seller on Ebay had a lot of early 50's/60's HO stock with it as well, same source I expect. Stephen. If the wheels are brass then that drive truly is primordial Athearn, dating to the 1960s. I have seen the original Hi-F (aka rubber band) drive units and early worm drive units with brass wheels. Athearn then went to sintered iron wheels which gave good traction, didn't oxidize like brass wheels but are notorious for being dirt magnets. The nickle silver wheels used now have only arrived in the past 10 years or so on the Genesis units and are now standard across the range. That round sided motor in your unit is pretty typical of 20+ years of Athearn's switcher production; looking closely at the photos I see the split worm caps which are also indicative of a c.1980 or earlier production. It came to me a little while ago - the Lindsey tooling went to Penn Line which could also be that shell's origin. I'm fascinated by the beast, not least of which is that it ended up in the UK! Over here these sorts of models are curiousities, having been superceded by Kato's NW-2 and other more modern models. The Kato NW-2 is like a giant overgrown N scale unit with a split frame that is very heavy and pulls like mad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 If the wheels are brass then that drive truly is primordial Athearn, dating to the 1960s. I have seen the original Hi-F (aka rubber band) drive units and early worm drive units with brass wheels. Athearn then went to sintered iron wheels which gave good traction, didn't oxidize like brass wheels but are notorious for being dirt magnets. The nickle silver wheels used now have only arrived in the past 10 years or so on the Genesis units and are now standard across the range. That round sided motor in your unit is pretty typical of 20+ years of Athearn's switcher production; looking closely at the photos I see the split worm caps which are also indicative of a c.1980 or earlier production. It came to me a little while ago - the Lindsey tooling went to Penn Line which could also be that shell's origin. I'm fascinated by the beast, not least of which is that it ended up in the UK! Over here these sorts of models are curiousities, having been superceded by Kato's NW-2 and other more modern models. The Kato NW-2 is like a giant overgrown N scale unit with a split frame that is very heavy and pulls like mad. Interesting about Lindsey and Penn line, Bowser may have the moulds then. I cannot find anything about Lindsay on the net, too long ago now. I know Lindsay worked with Varney on the Super Pacific and the Ball raced Ring field motor, his invention I believe, and made the Ghost motor, and the tiny Teaspoon o' Power bogie. The Athearn's that Morris had were all 1960's and had the full gear drive and brass wheels, not the iron versions, and have the same motor unit. The rubber band drives are next to useless, quite what they thought they were making is beyond me. The pulling power of his were considurable, 40+ freight cars at least at 1972 convention. In pairs they were unstoppable. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Bowser have the Cary line items, an Alco S-2 switcher, and the EMD SW 1500, these were both diecast Mazak bodies for the Athearn chassis, but now all discontinued from production. I can't find any mention of the Lindsay, but there is mention of the Hobbytown of Boston EMD switcher in a version to fit Athearn chassis, no mention of which EMD switcher they did though. I hope the body has I.D, marks when it comes through, should be here tomorrow. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Got it sorted out by posting a link to a diesel modeler's list over here that has a number of older members who'd remember. They independently agree it's a Varney NW-2 shell. I'll be seeing an elderly friend this Friday night and I'll bet he has one of these shells - for years his railroad used Varney F unit shells on Athearn drives and the railroad he models (the Monon) had an NW-2...he now keeps a Kato NW-2 on the main yard. If Jack has one of those shells I'll give it a good look over. When Cary was independent the shells were not Mazak (or Zamac as it's called over here) but rather a nice soft yet firm metal, not hard like Zamac. I still one of their SW1500 and an H12-44 body - the H12-44 is a really nice shell, well done and of course makes a locomotive that will pull the white off of rice. Cary also made the first scale-width hood GP9 shell that was designed to fit a modified Athearn drive. I'm fortunate enough to have one of those as the die was destroyed somehow a short time after the first run of shells was made. If you go here http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/cary.htm and open the "HO body catalog pages" pdf you'll see everything Cary ever offered...when Bowser took over they converted the shells to Mazak. If you'd like to see photos of those Cary shells let me know. And I'll be interested to see what you see when your package arrives. The Varney F units had the name inside the shell. As bad as they seem now, the Hi-F drives were a Big Deal when they came out - full eight wheel drive without ringfield motors or the noisy motor bogies as used by Varney, Mantua and others. And when Athearn introduced full gear drive F units for under $10, that was even a bigger deal...this was a time when their freight car kits were 99 cents. I came along to modeling around 1982 when Athearn kits were $3 and F units and GP9s were $21.50... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Well, we have gone through the roll call of all the EMD HO model makers!,, bar the brass makers of course!! Varney it is then, and even more of a mystery as very little Varney was sold over here during the heyday of the maker in the 1950's, but I suspect the moulds got used later on as well by others. From the shots it looks like a zinc alloy casting, typical patchy surface texture and markings, but should do up fine to get it to a decent fine detail standard. I have dug out some old Kemtron Lost Wax brass bits and pieces, and their reference manuals for extra details to add, and I can use the genuine EMD User manual from the net, for the cab interior details. Although the drive does enter the back of the cab it can be covered up, and still get seats and controls into place, with some flush glazing as well. Crew will cover up any shortcomings in the cab. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Some more info has appeared...Martin Goller provided the following: "Here some photos of the Varney "GM 1000 H.P. switcher" or "Yard Diesel" as shown in the catalog. http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyDiesel1.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyDiesel2.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyDiesel3.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyDiesl4.jpg Note the various drive options... Unfortunately, no date on the catalog. Best hint is a recommendation to "get the May '49 Model Railroader on hot to build a 4-6-6-4 articulated if you want a real project". The F-unit is also in the catalog. Two types of shells are offered (see the parts list). http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyF3-1.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/martingoller/VarneyDiesel/VarneyF3-2.jpg The majority of the pamphlet are replacement part lists for the steamers." I do enjoy learning about these old models and where we've been... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Some more info has appeared...Martin Goller provided the following: "Here some photos of the Varney "GM 1000 H.P. switcher" or "Yard Diesel" as shown in the catalog. http://1stclass.myla...rneyDiesel1.jpg http://1stclass.myla...rneyDiesel2.jpg http://1stclass.myla...rneyDiesel3.jpg http://1stclass.myla...arneyDiesl4.jpg Note the various drive options... Unfortunately, no date on the catalog. Best hint is a recommendation to "get the May '49 Model Railroader on hot to build a 4-6-6-4 articulated if you want a real project". The F-unit is also in the catalog. Two types of shells are offered (see the parts list). http://1stclass.myla.../VarneyF3-1.jpg http://1stclass.myla.../VarneyF3-2.jpg The majority of the pamphlet are replacement part lists for the steamers." I do enjoy learning about these old models and where we've been... Many thanks for the extensive research, It was a Varney Old Lady I was bidding for on Ebay, just before spotting the EMD switcher with minutes to go, so no real chance for proper research before purchase. Very interesting mention in the shots of the fully sprung, and equalised, Super Pacific, and Super Consolidation, locos, I have one of each. Rare over here, and very little paper work ever came over, only the Railroader, Craftsman, adverts etc., and a few Walthers catalogues. 1949/50, about right for the Pittman motored versions before Varney made their own somewhat simpler motors. The Super Pacific I have has the Lindsay Ringfield ballraced motor, superb performance. I used to like the "extras", like....er... valve gear!!!..mind you when properly made and detailed, they were not bad models, unless you got an Old Lady with Zamac Rot......lead contamination in the Zinc castings, fatal to die cast items. Cheap, mind you, you could spend as much on the Kemtron and other makers of Lost Wax cast part extras as the entire locomotive cost, especially on the 040 Saddle tank... with options of standard valve gear or super detailed !!!!.. how times have changed..... Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Wow is that an oldie. But I'm pretty confident that it's not an Athearn shell...I suspect the shell is a Lindsey or perhaps Lincoln shell - I remember seeing one like this many moons ago. The February 1990 edition of RMC has a piece about Lindsay's NW2 in the Collector Consist column by Keith Wills. The Lindsay model is described as being made up of brass castings. In the early 50s the tooling passed to Kemtron who continued production. Pacific Fast Mail listed the Lindsay/Kemtron model in a 1954 ad. By 1957 PFM had acquired the tooling for the NW2 from Kemtron and had the models partially assembled in Japan from parts made in the USA. The models were then sold as kits requiring the purchaser to do some final assembly work such as installing the trucks. The early 50s price for the Lindsay model was $29.75 compared with $$19.75 for the Varney version. PFM stopped producing the Lindsay model after 1958. (All info from the RMC article referenced.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 5, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2010 I believe that the (deduced) formula for DGLE was a gallon of green and a tank car load of black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 I believe that the (deduced) formula for DGLE was a gallon of green and a tank car load of black. References on the net say a load of copper oxide was added to give a more durable paint finish, just adding green paint gives black a yellow tinge to black paint!! I have an Austin car with black paint, and it's a pig to match, very deep carbon black. Most modern black car paint is charcoal shade to start with. In the UK the odd black shade on railways was the LNWR black, where blue dye was added to the formulae, when Electric Blue became available in the 1890's, it stabilised the black finish against UV attack....Lead oxide use to be added to everything to try to make it durable. Very often the paint colours were governed by chemical factors and durability problems rather than aesthetics. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Yes, on the Lindsay. it sounds far more likely they built in brass, other items they made were cast or coined brass items, and Kemtron specialised in cast brass, mainly lost wax castings. Lindsay were also the first people to try photo etched parts in the US. Varney, Cary, Bowser and other early HO builders used a lot of brass that was "sand cast" at first, boilers etc., but the lack of fine detail dogged them, and they quickly changed to die cast, or went on with lost wax cast brass, like the Wabash Mogul kit from Kemtron. Trouble with the UK is the lack of old US makers 1940/50/60 catalogues, rare and few and far between. Old adverts in the Model Railroader often just refer you to the then current makers catalogues for listings. Some early HO makers like Mantua had pre-war UK connections, Hamblings did market motors and track from Mantua, and a batch of the Camelback 040 yard shunter were imported. Pittman supplied motors to Mr Graham Farish just post war, and he imported some Varney items at one point in the 1948/49 period, about the period the post war government import restrictions were eased. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Varney Athearn EMD NW-2 Bo-Bo 1000 hp Switcher. Well.... The new locomotive from Ebay has arrived by 1st class Royal Mail and the big give away clue to the identity of the loco is:- From Sunny Florida ....Varney NW-2..... Instruction sheet......for original mechanism from Varney.....marked 1955 in corner..... Instruction sheet......for original mechanism from Varney. Rather obvious is it not?, A Varney NW-2 die-cast EMD Switcher kit, 3.5mm to the foot, H0 gauge, with alterations to fit an Athearn Chassis, the body must be about mid to late 1950's, perhaps just into the 1960's, and all the extra brass bits and pieces are there as well. Body parts breakdown and screws, all parts present and complete. Handrails, working bell, book, and candle, well..... not really! Stamped Varney inside......... Athearn Chassis, nice condition, fully running, just needs clean and service. Athearn chassis has got the proper decent brass wheels, NMRA RP-25, well within limits. Die cast Cab unit, screws into place. Side view of Varney NW-2 1000 HP EMD Switcher. Side view of Varney NW-2 1000 HP EMD Switcher. Side view of Varney NW-2 1000 HP EMD Switcher. So a very nice HO project for restoration, far better than expected, the added bonus is Varney, rare in the UK in decent condition, let alone a mint un-assembled kit loco. The Athearn chassis is superior to the Varney, I have the equivalent Varney under an F unit, runs fine, but not as quiet, or smooth. It will need knuckle couplers and the side end handrails, not done by Varney on model at all, and the couplers must be an insulated type, and full lighting fitted, which will be modern LED and light guide for the cab ends and markers. Preparing the parts and a trial assembly, and a run in on rollers first. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 You did well! With all that weight it should pull well too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 It does leave an un-answerable question.......just why would a model kit get left in a drawer un-built for 55 years? The Athearn chassis is about 1960 or so, the brass wheels date it, but the kit dates from 1955. Sunny Florida based Varney models were neat, if basic models, he started in the 1930's selling rolling stock kits, always with extras to be added to the basic parts, but really....valve gear an extra for steamers? The Super series had the extras in place, budget were just that, cheap!. Walthers were the main distributor for the products, which included fibre track, and litho printed decorated metal sided impressed car sides, and aluminium coach bodies. The first locos used Mantua motors, then Pittman and Lindsey, and then own brand and imported Japanese motors. Steamers had sand cast bodies, later lead, and then die cast. I think the problem with Varney was slow introduction of new models, and Varney's age, he retired in the 1950's, selling on the remains of the company. Some items remain available from Bowser etc., these days. They occupied the back advert page of Model Railroader for many years, along with internal double pages. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 It does leave an un-answerable question.......just why would a model kit get left in a drawer un-built for 55 years? The Athearn chassis is about 1960 or so, the brass wheels date it, but the kit dates from 1955. Probably the same reason that unbuilt Kitmaster are so sought after - Collectors! Many items are more valuable if they haven't been opened - I some cases the box is worth more than what was inside it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 It does leave an un-answerable question.......just why would a model kit get left in a drawer un-built for 55 years? The Athearn chassis is about 1960 or so, the brass wheels date it, but the kit dates from 1955. Probably the same reason that unbuilt Kitmaster are so sought after - Collectors! Many items are more valuable if they haven't been opened - I some cases the box is worth more than what was inside it. I know all about collectors...... this one though must have been a hoarder, a different form of the species of Railway Modeller, one who buys and never does anything but barely start the kit, or nothing at all.... at least some turn up on Ebay! stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 A link for a selection of Varney catalogues and US makers literature, on line : http://www.hoseeker....cellaneous.html Great source of older equipment information, loads of original Brochures, spares lists etc. Google failed to turn up Lindsay, but copies of their catalogues are here. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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