Two Varney 1000 hp EMD switchers, all metal version, from 1940's

[CraigZ]

And a look at the other side. To be honest with the availability of the old Walthers/Roco FM model for under $40 I can't really see any reason to fight this shell. The old Cary shell of the nicer metal, yes, that's worth the effort. But this shell just looks awful. Apologies for a threadjack but it seems to fit here

[thnksno]

Eh, maybe you don't work for Bowser, their 'sales picture' does look about the same. I would have liked to do a trio, but maybe doubles is best, lol!

 

 

Stephen, sorry I tried to rope you in... lol! N-E way I too am sorry for the threadjacking, but am looking for help and inspiration, which you provide.

 

Question on the light piping... You're not running DCC, correct? I'm just not seeing the space to handle 2-3mm LEDs a PC board and a decoder with a floor in the NW2/1500/S2 - currently looking to nab a couple Varney's though for comparison sake anyway, talking miss-a-lunch cheap. Seriously, start eBaying with misspelled words, I'm sold and Lindsay/Lindsey - Varney/Varnay - Athearn/Athern/Athurn - Bowser/Bowsir are all the same! Neat site helps you out and it provides access to all eBay nationalities. (note: I don't use the site, but offer it as reference to get an idea of what I mean by misspelled searches).

 

fatfingers

[bertiedog]

There are some older Varney Switchers on US Ebay, both assembled and kits, there was one kit that went for under $10 this week, but getting it to the UK is too expensive for cheaper items. The Lindsay I am buying was miss listed, not under HO, which may have kept it a touch hidden from searching bidders.

 

Another point is to be made, the fact that there are lots around half assembled, or abandoned, older Varney switchers is due to a serious design problem, but quite easily cured.

 

I talked about it to a couple of friends in the NMRA, the lack of a proper chassis in the original 1940's Varney was the killer, the parts are attached to the body shell, and it is difficult for anybody not mechanically minded to get things to run well, especially where two power bogies were fitted, which was from one motor via a universal jointed shaft connecting the bogies.

 

The cure is a simple addition of a brass plate chassis under the footplate, and then all is easy, the original transmission parts can be adjusted properly under real running rather than trying to get things to run with the body already on.

 

Frankly it had never caused me a problem with the old ones in the past, but it was the reason the Lindsay or the Athearn chassis was often added to the Varney shell, which when in good condition was a good quality item, as you can see from my examples here.

 

The other problem was noise, the hard metal shell "rang" like a bell, amplifying the noise, with no chassis there was no simple cure, but I notice Lindsey sold sheets of thin neoprene rubber to make gaskets for the Varney that isolated the body somewhat from the power bogie, reducing any vibration and the noise.

 

That zinc Bowser shell is very crystalline, high Zinc content, low magnesium, or too much aluminium, although my vote is too much zinc, probably no rot, but would clean up OK, but more work than the older lead type. The final finish after primer and paint would be O.K. I suspect the mould temperature was also too low for the molten metal as well, the pressure was O.K. the detail is there.

 

Health and Safety law bans lead now in general, (both US and UK), although the total UK ban often mentioned is not strictly true, lead can, and does, continue in legal use in traditional uses where there is no substitute, traditional arts and crafts get a legal "bye" , and modelling qualifies for specialist non toy uses. The same applies to solder, available with lead for original uses, but not for new uses.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Yes, they are not DCC, but there are vast acres of space, the decoder can go in the cab roof, and the PC board with lamps can go vertically behind the radiator, postage stamp size and 3mm thick.... or under the hood at the cab end........The Ipad might not fit but there's space for an Ipod!!

 

If it's the original Varney with one power bogie, there is a huge area between the tanks spare, and even with the drive shaft in place you could pack two decoders in there, with sound speakers in the cab floor, or roof space.

 

I do have DCC as well, for commercial US locos with sound as standard mainly, but frankly there is no advantage in running these vintage units on DCC, it saves a vast amount of cash, runs as well, or better, as frankly the control wave from a lot of chips causes hum noise, the infamous DCC "hum n' chatter", but this only comes if the mechanism is prone to resonant with the signals. CV adjustment or mechanical damping overcomes it quite easily.

 

A properly set up and good quality DC motor will run quieter and smoother on plain DC,or feedback control, but of course a well set up one will run as good on DCC. What DCC can do is make poor mechnisms appear to run quite well, but at the penalty of hum etc., a poor mechanism is always a bad 'un.

 

Stephen

[thnksno]

I am using Athearn chassis, so the motor/flywheels/linkage/worms take up a lot of room... I've fitted a few plastic kits with DCC and am very happy with the way they run, but it is a tight fit.

 

Looking forward to seeing all the internals on your Varneys once completed.

[bertiedog]

Not for the NW-2's but pair of GP pilots from Kemtron, on Ebay for 99p, a bargain, now I have to find a GP to go with the rather nice lost wax castings. They need an acid clean and filing edges etc., to fettle the castings to a high finish.

Stephen

[shortliner]

Stephen, not sure if PMs are working - if you haven't had one today from me, please email me chacmool at lineone dot net

[bertiedog]

Stephen, not sure if PMs are working - if you haven't had one today from me, please email me chacmool at lineone dot net

 

Replied by the PM system, item noted, thanks.

[bertiedog]

 

The Lindsay Electromotive 1000 HP Diesel Switcher has arrived from the States, and work is under way to clean up the parts and start assembly of the kit to the highest possible standards.

 

The parts are nearly all lost wax Brass or Brass turned parts, and lost wax cast Sterling Silver, yes silver....

 

 

The main NW-2 body is a lost wax set of brass castings, soldered together by Lindsay as a unit ready to screw to the footplate. The footplate is also a very large lost wax brass casting. The marker lights, main lights etc., are also lost wax brass as is the working bell. Everything is meant to be screwed together or in the case of details glued into tight fitting holes. Full interior details can be fitted to the cab, as a scale floor can be fitted. There is a large lead weight under the bonnet, directly over the power bogie.

The tanks are lost wax castings, with brass turnings for the exhaust stacks.

 

 

The Motor Bogie and gearboxes are fully compensated, with inside and outside bearings, driven by a seven pole Lindsay skewed slot star wound motor, via 13:1 gears on the axles. The wheels are pre- blackened brass.

 

 

The working, yes, working, bell, with the famous Sterling Silver frame, no working sound of course, but a working clapper under the bell. The shot shows it stood in place, the nut is under the hood normally of course.

 

An option offered in the catalogue was to have sterling silver knuckle couplings as well. This kit has electro blackened brass knuckle couplings.

 

 

Further general parts, the brass pilots ends are lost wax beryllium copper, and the bogie outer side frames are copper plated and then black anodised to eliminate painting.

 

 

Detailing bits and pieces, one new handrail with be needed, missing before purchase, a duplicate pair will be made to ensure a good match. The Bogies are very detailed, and the brake shoes line up with the wheel treads....come on modern makers, it's easy if you try.....wire is provided for handrails and grab rails.

 

 

The Lindsay Switcher kit dates from 1947, and was made till the takeover of the company by Kemtron in the early 1950's. It was the first of the modern super detail kits ever offered, the granddaddy of all the HO Brass locos to come later on. Only sand cast brass bodies had been used before the war, much cruder in detail.

 

As Robert Lindsay brought the lost wax technique to Model Railroading from the jewellery trade, he also supplied Railway themed jewellery in the first catalogues, and the silver bell frame carried on this tradition.

 

The motors were his own design, later used by Gordon Varney as well, somewhat simplified with his models. Lindsay's motor design was advanced, even today is un-beaten, seven poles, skewed slot, and star wound.

 

A second powered bogie could be added, driven by the flywheel drive via a universal jointed shaft under the footplate. Obviously not supplied with this kit, but if suitable 13:1 gears are made, I may built a second bogie myself later on.

 

Why, Oh, Why, is such cr*p made these days, this was made 63 years ago, and standards have never been higher than this.

 

Stephen.

[alcoRS1]

that cleaned up nicely, very nice, are you going to paint it? if so what road?

[shortliner]

Stephen - you lucky Bu99er! what an absolute beauty! - I'm really looking forward to seeing all of these made up.

Glad I didn't set off for Glasgow - It ids snowing like mad here north of Inverness!

[bertiedog]

Yes, a very nice H0 kit, not too expensive, a modern brass metal etched 00 kit would be double this one, at $100 or so, bought via Ebay. I nearly lost the bidding, curiously Ebay showed me ahead when I was not, but I bid anyway, three times in the last moments, and got the item. I only saw it on Ebay US by accident, it was not listed in RR, but toys. The UK Ebay site lists Railways as Collectors, but Ebay in the States lists under both toys and RR instead.

 

I knew about these Lindsay Diesel Switcher Kits from a friend of about 40 years ago, and they were rare even then, the cast lost wax brass items were available separately from Kemtron, and may even be available from Precision Scale these days, if they have the master parts, bar the Lindsay motor parts of course.

 

He had several of the famous working bells, one was a real sterling silver Lindsay production.

 

Kemtron made them in all lost wax brass finish for many years. They can be made to move by fitting a fine wire to a pivot point on the arm, connected to a small swinging pendulum inside the body, as the loco moves the bell moves back and forth. This was suggested in a Model Railroader column in the 1949 period. The whole working bell in silver and brass cost $1.50 as a separate item!!!!, but then the dollar was worth a bit more!!

 

Lindsay offered other items in sterling silver, tiepins and badges for Railroaders etc., and I am told was in the jewellery business where the expertise for lost wax casting came from.

 

As the layout is to be based on the Stewartstown shortline, see separate thread...... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/9939-a-pennsylvanian-shortline/page__fromsearch__1

......The appropriate livery would be Pennsylvanian, as the main line connection to the Penn at the western end at New Freedom. NW-2 switchers have operated on the branch, both freight in the working days and also in modern times. The finish would be black!! and Yes, I am aware it's very, very, dark green!!..but looks better in a nice satin black finish.

 

There is a lot of extra detail to make in brass and nickel silver, the window shades, screens, and windscreen wipers etc., and make up the handrails and body grab rails.

 

The supplied beryllium brass wire is coiled, I may replace with straight hard brass or nickel silver, or straighten the original by twist stretching. The cab interior can be left for later on, it can be simply slipped into place, as the body and cab unit un-screws easily from the lost wax cast brass footplate..

 

It needs a few new brass and nickel washers added to the Lindsay kits screws that secure everything together, as supplied the screw heads bear direct, I like full washers under all screw heads.

 

The couplers are scale size "dummies", but work with Kadee as they stand. Lindsay offered them in Sterling Silver as an alternative in the 1940's catalogue. The coupler pocket is near scale size so a difficult fit for a working Kadee, which would have to be a coil spring centering version, sprung from behind.

 

First indications are the Lindsay 7 pole flywheel motor runs fine, but both gear boxes pivot around the structure, whereas one gearbox should be rigid to the motor and body mounting, I notice the seller said he had serviced the bogie, I think slightly wrongly assembled, or a small grub screw has come loose.

 

With both gearboxes able to rotate the body would depend on the other end bogie to stand up straight, not desirable at al with compensated chassis's on diesels.

 

The wheels will need attention at some point, they are " NMRA approved ", but pre RP-25 standards and have slightly deeper flanges than modern wheels.

 

The tyre width is exactly standard, with correct cone angle, but a sharper radius to the flange than in the later RP specifications.

 

I will just reduce the flange height in the Lorch collet lathe, and re-blacken the wheel flanges, with Casey Gun Black. They will have to run over Code 55 flatbottom track with spikes, and at present they would only reliably go over Code 75 with spikes.

 

Stephen

[shortliner]

It seems that PMs are not doing what they should - 220562263852 - definitely different!

[bertiedog]

It seems that PMs are not doing what they should - 220562263852 - definitely different!

 

Noted, many thanks, I am interested, but it's costly on postage. The "Stubby" was one of the main items Lindsay supplied post war.

 

The Robico name indicates very early Lindsay or the period after his early death. The body is cruder than others I have seen,and not brass, but Mazak.

 

The mechanism is the standard Lindsay motor type, so exact vintage is a bit un-certain. I will look into it as it would suit the Shortline intended, but frankly the whole loco would be easy from scratch anyway. The Lindsay catalogue has outline drawings for instance.........

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

 

It appears from the catalogues and references that Robico was a separate company that originally supplied the body casting part, later made by Linsay and Kemtron. It started as Mazak, but was later done in brass, at least by Kemtron, and according to the catalogue by Lindsay in brass throughout.

 

Lindsay supplied the chassis, wheels and motor, both for this model and the Penn line Whitcomb 040

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Original instructions

Penn line version done with Penn mechanism or Lindsay.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Apparently Robico were "Robert Irving Company", of Universal City, California, who first marketed the Stubby kit, Mazak body, and Lindsay supplied the parts for the chassis, later taking over the whole loco, and changing the body to brass about 1952.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The Plymouth 040 Switcher used on the Stewartstown Railroad. The Stubby would be similar sized in real life.

 

 

Stephen

[Talltim]

These old metal loco kits are so tempting, trouble is you've made them popular so the price will go up!

Seriously I would bid, but I don;t want to bid against people on here.

[shortliner]

I think I might risk a bid

[bertiedog]

I think I might risk a bid

I am only watching, no bidding, but may make one from scratch. Came across a photo of Bob Lindsay, from an old 1950 trade magazine, an article in the Model Railroader had once said photos of him were rare.

Stephen.

[shortliner]

Noted also a couple of Lindsay Motor bogies - one with a cracked gear - no shipping costs listed though

[bertiedog]

Noted also a couple of Lindsay Motor bogies - one with a cracked gear - no shipping costs listed though

 

I think those bogies are very early ones before the compensated gearboxes where fitted, and I am confused as to whether it's two listings of the same item, I must re-read it carefully.

Lindsay items do turn up regularly, be careful with early stuff, they may have Mazak rot, not Lindsay's fault it just happened when the cast got lead in it, even a trace.

 

Quite how a steel gear can split is odd, unless like Varney did, they tried plastic or Mazak for the gear. Usually Lindsay used steel, and copper plated it to stop rusting as well.

 

Stephen.

[shortliner]

No - they are two seperate items - one with a gear problem, and one without

[bertiedog]

No - they are two seperate items - one with a gear problem, and one without

Yes, got it, I must have got the same page twice, they are definitely not the compensated type, looking more like the rigid Varney version, which used Lindsay parts. The shafts have been shortened if they are Lindsay bogies, as they stuck out to take the flywheel and drive for the other bogie.

 

Stephen.