Silverette

[D869]

Hopefully the title sums up the question here.

 

One item that I's like to liberate from my gloat box is an 2mm Association kit for an Air Ministry oil tank that I intend to finish in Esso Class 'A' livery... but so far all of my attempts to produce a convincing metallic silver/silverette/stainless steel finish have been rather a disappointment.

 

The least bad results have been had with milk tanks where I brushed a streaky layer of thinned Humbrol silver over grey primer. By being careful with the brushing direction and the start and end of each stroke the result was not too dissimilar to the weathering on some real tanks but it would be nice to have the option of starting from something approximating to a pristine finish without it looking silly.

 

Using a 'full' coat of the pre-metalcote Humbrol 'silver' paint and the later metalcote aluminium both seem to produce a very unconvincing result. I've also tried a 50/50 mix of light grey and aluminium but that wound up looking like grey with a few shiny flecks in it.

 

I haven't been brave enough to put metallic paint through my airbrush yet... although I'm not convinced that this is the answer anyway.

 

The closest thing to an answer that I've found was somebody detailing an RTR tank... but he largely left the RTR finish alone.

 

The model aircraft boys seem to have some interesting answers but they are usually trying to reproduce unpainted metal panels rather than a silver painted finish.

 

Regards, Andy

[46444]

Evening Andy,

 

Metallic finishes are one of the hardest ones to get right.

 

I know in my aircraft modelling days it was always a struggle to get a good metalic finish even using things like Metalcote.

 

Like you say aircraft modellers have some intersting answers one being Alclad Lacquers applied through an airbrush. May be worth investigating. Here's a link to Hannant's website-the Hattons for military modellers.

 

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?search=alclad

 

Hope that's of some use.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Neil]

I presume that you're after a finish like this example on Paul Bartlett's fab website. If so I'd not get hung up on the 'metallic' component of the finish, but concentrate on getting the shade of grey spot on, and then the appropriate high and low lights. It's what artists have done for years to simulate shiny surfaces. Pugsley did something very much along these lines in one of the earliest Modelling Inspirations (sorry but I've failed to find a link) .

[D869]

Metallic finishes are one of the hardest ones to get right.

 

I know in my aircraft modelling days it was always a struggle to get a good metalic finish even using things like Metalcote.

 

Like you say aircraft modellers have some intersting answers one being Alclad Lacquers applied through an airbrush. May be worth investigating. Here's a link to Hannant's website-the Hattons for military modellers.

 

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?search=alclad

 

Hope that's of some use.

 

Thanks Mark. I'll check them out.

 

I presume that you're after a finish like this example on Paul Bartlett's fab website. If so I'd not get hung up on the 'metallic' component of the finish, but concentrate on getting the shade of grey spot on, and then the appropriate high and low lights. It's what artists have done for years to simulate shiny surfaces. Pugsley did something very much along these lines in one of the earliest Modelling Inspirations (sorry but I've failed to find a link) .

 

I reckon that photo is of a grey one. The livery changed very soon after the first few of the big modern vac braked tanks (maybe Esso also struggled to get a convincing finish). Looking at Paul's site again also reminded me that 'stone' was a class A livery for a while, but silverette seems to be the more typical livery for the WW2 vintage class A vehicles that were still around doing their original job in the 60s.

 

More like this one really... although this is a preserved one and a bigger tank than I am doing.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essounfit/h2c35bdaf#h2c35bdaf

 

Regards, Andy

[Rumblestripe]

The "Non-Metallic-Metal" finish can be spectacular when done well. It's a technique often used in painting miniature figures. As state above the idea is that you paint the reflected colours that you would see on the object rather than paint the object sliver, gold, chrome or whatever. It can look like badly applied paint if not right and it really only looks "right" from a narrow range of angles because it is more a technique used in art (as in Rembrandt, Picasso et al)

 

A better bet might be to look at the application of "Bare Metal Foil" rather than a paint finish you apply a micro thin sheet of foil to the model. This technique is (or at least was last time I looked) popular with aircraft modellers

 

This is the website of company which makes it in the states  http://www.bare-metal.com/bare-metal-foil.html with instructions or its use and this is a website for a supplier in Blighty http://hobby.uk.com/scale-models/finishing-products/bare-metal-foil.html

 

[Guest stuartp]

 

The model aircraft boys seem to have some interesting answers but they are usually trying to reproduce unpainted metal panels rather than a silver painted finish.

 

 

That may be the problem - the AM tanks were painted and the various aero-modelling finishes such as Alclad and Metalcote are not intended to replicate that. You might be better with plain Aluminium - Humbrol 56 acrylic or enamel. Spray it, it won't do any damage provided you clean the airbrush properly afterwards.

[jonhall]

I think that if you are not sure about puting a metalic paint through your airbrush you could consider just buying a Halfords rattle can of silver paint. I've had reasonable success with using Alclad and plasticote to replicate the high sine finish on pristine 'Silver Bullet' clay tanks, but that isn't the sort of finish that I think you are trying to achive.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58076-ferry-vans-from-scratch/?p=721549

 

 

in the above link, two (or 3 - I forget) of the pristine tanks are done with Alclad, and the others are done with plasticote.

 

Jon

[alfsboy]

I used Alclad on Model cars and the finish is remarkable especially the chrome and polished aluminium.Its great stuff if used with a gloss black undercoat as per .Probably not what your looking for but it may help someone else reading this .

[D869]

Thanks all for the advice. The silver bullets and the plane look great, but a mirror like finish is definitely not what I'm after for the Air Ministry tank.

 

Alclad looks like a good product and well regarded for durability so I will probably go down that road but there are soo many options to choose from so I'm really not sure what to go for. I was pondering 116 - semi matt Aluminium which seems to be the least 'shiny' option while still remaining recognisably metallic.

 

I've found loads of articles about replicating shiny bare metal panels on planes (Natural Metal Finish or 'NMF' as they seem to call it) with Alclad and varying the finish by using differing shades of gloss underneath but not much info on achieving a non-shiny finish (unnatural painted finish??) which is what I want - more like the control surface of the plane in the photo above than the fuselage.

 

I'm guessing that undercoating with gloss black would be counterproductive to the finish that I'm after but not sure what the alternative might be - for instance could I paint Alclad over matt grey?

 

I suspect that I will need to experiment but it would be nice to know where to start from.

 

Regards, Andy

[D869]

Managed to partially answer my own question by finding the instructions online from the manufacturer...

 

http://alclad2.com/how-to/

 

Seems that there are two types of finish - 'regular' and 'high shine'. The regular stuff just goes on over normal primer.

 

I've ordered a few colours based on the multicoloured aeroplane on here...

 

http://alclad2.com/how-to/alclad-in-action/

 

... although what they will look like on a 2mm scale tank is another matter. I decided against the semi matt one in the end after finding some more photos in which it looks basically like a non-metallic grey, but 'dull' looks more useful. I also dug out a few more prototype photos including some late 50s ones of newly painted tanks that are a very light shade of aluminium and look most unrealistic - the Alclad 'white aluminium' would probably be a good match but an ex works finish is not what I'm after. Other colour photos of wagons in service look much darker, so I think it best to start with a darker aluminium shade.

 

I will do some tests when they arrive and see what looks the most reasonable.

 

Regards, Andy

[cctransuk]

... an Air Ministry oil tank that I intend to finish in Esso Class 'A' livery... but so far all of my attempts to produce a convincing metallic silver/silverette/stainless steel finish have been rather a disappointment.

 

I've always used a rattle can called "Shiny Wheels" that I got from Halfords.

 

 

 

 

It's as close to the prototype as makes no difference, and takes waterskide transfers perfectly.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[D869]

Thanks John, they look good. I think that my next step will be Alclad though since I've shelled out some hard-earned on it already.

 

Regards, Andy.

[Campaman]

If you are putting it though an airbrush try mixing in a small amount of black or white with whatever silver you choose, this will need some experimentation to find the amount needed.

 

Then the trick is to mix up 3 or 4 different shades of the silver/black/white mix and spray using those, this will give tonal variety which is what you are missing by using one shade of silver.

[D869]

If you are putting it though an airbrush try mixing in a small amount of black or white with whatever silver you choose, this will need some experimentation to find the amount needed.

 

Then the trick is to mix up 3 or 4 different shades of the silver/black/white mix and spray using those, this will give tonal variety which is what you are missing by using one shade of silver.

 

Thanks. I've seen this suggested in aero modelling articles. At the moment I'm waiting on the postie to deliver 3 shades of Alclad so will start by spraying some test pieces with those. I have my doubts regarding whether it's possible to mix the other paints in my stash with Alclad though - I think that Alclad is cellulose or similar.

 

Your suggestion should work with Humbrol Metalcote and I have tried it once but the result was not great. I had a 50/50 mix of aluminium and grey, which was probably way too much of the grey judging by the result that I got.

 

Regards, Andy

 

Regards, Andy

[D869]

I did some experiments in the nice weather this evening. I found some white plastic tube hiding in the shed (from a long defunct kite or wendy house or similar), cleaned this up, cut it into 5 pieces and sprayed it outdoors with various permutations of paints. I'm not sure how helpful photos are in showing metallic finishes (certainly the ones I took outdoors are no help at all), but here's one anyway taken indoors in natural daylight.

 

From left to right we have...

- Halfords grey primer and 2 coats Alclad 103 (Dark Aluminium)

- Halfords grey primer and 2 coats Alclad 102 (Duraluminium)

- Halfords grey primer and 2 coats Alclad 117 (Dull Aluminium)

- Humbrol black acrylic spray and 2 coats Alclad 117 (Dull Aluminium)

- Halfords grey primer and 1 coat Humbrol Metalcote 27002 (Aluminium)

 

My thoughts at the moment are that I'd be happy with any of the Alclad ones... so it hasn't really narrowed down the field much. I find it difficult to describe the finishes. The 'dull' is definitely less shiny, but still recognisably metallic.

 

The Humbrol is a very different animal indeed. I find it as subtle as a brick. The Alclad stuff takes some time to build the finish up whereas the Humbrol seems to be pretty much 'all or nothing' and the result is very 'in your face' and not much to my liking. It also seemed to take a lot more effort to clean it out of the spray cup afterwards... or maybe it's just easier to see the Humbrol metal flakes floating on the thinners. I think I will need to persevere with the Humbrol though because there will likely be some bits of the tank that will need to be brush painted late in the assembly sequence... or maybe I'll just go for Metalcote steel which is much more restrained.

 

I haven't made my mind up between the Alclad finishes. The scientific answer would probably be to go for one of the dull finishes, but somehow the shinier ones seem a bit more attractive. I think I have some old Letraset lurking somewhere so I might apply some of this to the samples to see how they look with some black lettering.

 

Regards, Andy

[D869]

Part 2 of the Alclad experiment...

Amazingly I managed to find my old Letraset sheets. I also found that there was a car park ticket in the bag that showed that I bought them in 1990.

I was wondering whether they would still work after such a long time but they seem to work just as well as I remember them ever working.

I expect to be using Cambridge Custom Transfers on the actual model. These transfers are very delicate and definitely need varnish so I also gave the lettered side of the test pieces a coating of clear lacquer (keeping the other side uncoated for comparison).

I didn't think it was worth firing up the airbrush (and cleaning it afterwards) so instead I used a spray can of Acrylic lacquer. This doesn't seem to have lasted so well on the shelf and the resulting lacquer coat rather thick in places and uneven in others.

The lacquer seems to have had a peculiar effect on the Alclad 'dull' tests - there is a noticeable blotchiness. This may be the dodgy tin of lacquer but it has affected both of the dull tests and not the others, so I suspect that it has a different cause.

Naturally all of the samples now show an overall sheen from the lacquer. This finish is not as attractive as the unvarnished Alclad but I don't think that I have any choice if I want the lettering to last more than 5 minutes in normal use. I will definitely try to keep the varnish down to a light coating on the actual model.

I think I can now rule out the 'dull' option (117) - even apart from the blotchy finish it looks pretty strange when varnished. The other two both still look acceptable but I think I prefer the slightly lighter 'Duraluminium' (102).

 

Photo of all 5 tests - horizontal this time. From left to right are Alclad 103, 102, 117, 117 over black and Humbrol Metalcote.

 

 

Close up (sorry, not very well focussed) of just the two 'non dull' Alclads showing the clear lacquer sheen.

 

I do intend to try some of these out on WR signal posts too - this has been the other place where I've been struggling to get a convincing finish and one where transfers and varnishing are not an issue, so the 'dull' looks like a good option there.

[Eric & Gripper]

IMO 102  and Metalcote seem to have the best elements of what your looking for.I would of course go for the brightest finish possible and weather down accordingly.I you intend running ex works then brightest is still best.(IMO)

 

 

Good Luck with the final finish.I look forward to your final analysis and the finished tanks

 

Best Regards

 

Eric & Gripper.