Australia - Preservation Scene

[DavidB-AU]

If you can venture a bit further afield the Cleveland line as far as the junction to the Port of Brisbane is also a good place to see freights, especially coal trains. The footbridge at Morningside has good views in both directions.

 

If you want to do a bit of track bashing, a day trip to the Gold Coast (train to Varsity Lakes then bus to Coolangatta) or Sunshine Coast (train to Nambour) are easy days out. The line to Nambour is particularly scenic.

 

Certainly visit the Workshops Rail Museum at North Ipswich. There is a bus from Ipswich station which stops right out the front.

 

There is a bit of main line steam action in the time you will be here.

• There are Steam Train Sunday runs on 7 September and 5 October. The short rides around the suburbs are not expensive.
• The Laidley Spring Festival Steam Train on 13 September.
• Late September is the Carnival of Flowers in Toowoomba. The steam trains from Brisbane to Toowoomba operated by ARHS are an annual event, running on Saturday 20 and Sunday 21 September this year. Certainly a fantastic day out and the best way to experience the torturous climb up the range if you can fit it into your stay. If you can choose your day, the Sunday trip is usually the better one as on Saturday it usually has a longer train which requires diesel assistance up the range (although last year both days were diesel assisted as the steam loco was starting grass fires).

Certainly plenty of opportunities to photograph any or all of them even if you don't travel.

 

If you head west out towards Ipswich, the Queensland Pioneer Steam Railway is worth a visit on a running day. The Brisbane Tramway Museum is at Ferny Grove, a short walk from the station.

 

Also the Redlands Model Railway Show is on 14-15 September at Cleveland.

 

Cheers

David

Edited July 1, 2014 by DavidB-AU

[The Stationmaster]

The Laidley Flower Festival train at Grandchester (nee Bigges Camp) on its first Laidley bound trip of the day in 2004

 

 

 

[PhilH]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I won't be able to go to the model railway ex as I don't fly out until the 18th., but will certainly make use of the knowledge gained from your posts.

 

Also my son, good chap that he is, has got tickets for Australia v the All Blacks in Brisbane just before I leave......all in all can't wait.

[gazmanjack]

Post-Cowan, during the NSWGR 140th in 1995, they were still driving 3801 properly and doing close to regular service timings.

 

Cheers

David

Absolutely right !

 

I remember being on a train hauled by 3801 to Wollongong and on the return, we were flying up through Waterfall to Heathcote doing over 70mph. How do I know this..., because Jack Sparks (former engine driver of 38's) told me so during our conversation after the trip.

 

On another note, my father has told me the story of him stopping the Up South Coast Daylight Express, whilst he being a Station Assistant at Heathcote many years ago. The train running before the SCDE had dropped something on the track ahead. With a 38 and a HUB set (originally a CUB set, green & cream livery) hurtling through Heathcote at speed, it did take a good mile or so to pull her up ! My father still recalls the look on the firemans face when he seen the red flag being held out staunchly, and how long it took him (my father) to run up the line to the now stationary train !

 

Cheers, Gary.

Edited July 1, 2014 by gazmanjack

[PhilH]

Curious to know what...'driving 3801 properly' means.

[69843]

Curious to know what...'driving 3801 properly' means.

Properly in this case means without holding her back compared to line speeds. Though once 3801 is back, she should be fine to do 115kph without any problems.

[69843]

Absolutely right !

 

I remember being on a train hauled by 3801 to Wollongong and on the return, we were flying up through Waterfall to Heathcote doing over 70mph. How do I know this..., because Jack Sparks (former engine driver of 38's) told me so during our conversation after the trip.

 

Cheers, Gary.

I've heard many a story of the 38ers (both 01 and 30) doing some 'fun runs' in preservation. Like the one with 3801 doing 130kph+ down past Junee where the line allowed it in the not too distant past....

 

There was also the one I was told just recently of a 38 breaking the Sydney-Newcastle record (unofficially). I will not claim validity of the story, and there is no hard evidence that I am aware of, but an interesting story none the less.

 

The (condensed here) story, told to me from a fellow volunteer who knew the driver, was that said 38 (number currently forgotten) was 20mins late out of Newcastle. A spirited run saw the train cross the Hawkesbury River Bridge at 100mph, and continue up Cowan Bank without slowing down significantly for 2/3rds of the bank. The train was reportedly 15mins early into Central, with a minimal amount of coal and a very weary fireman.

Edited July 1, 2014 by 69843

[The Stationmaster]

I've heard many a story of the 38ers (both 01 and 30) doing some 'fun runs' in preservation. Like the one with 3801 doing 130kph+ down past Junee where the line allowed it in the not too distant past....

 

There was also the one I was told just recently of a 38 breaking the Sydney-Newcastle record (unofficially). I will not claim validity of the story, and there is no hard evidence that I am aware of, but an interesting story none the less.

 

The (condensed here) story, told to me from a fellow volunteer who knew the driver, was that said 38 (number currently forgotten) was 20mins late out of Newcastle. A spirited run saw the train cross the Hawkesbury River Bridge at 100mph, and continue up Cowan Bank without slowing down significantly for 2/3rds of the bank. The train was reportedly 15mins early into Central, with a minimal amount of coal and a very weary fireman.

There is not a suitable smiley type thing for that, what we really need a is a 'crrikey mate' button!  (And that must have been 'interesting' going over the bridge at that pace, and even more so round the curve at the Brooklyn end!!) 

[DavidB-AU]

I've heard many a story of the 38ers (both 01 and 30) doing some 'fun runs' in preservation. Like the one with 3801 doing 130kph+ down past Junee where the line allowed it in the not too distant past....

3801 is easily capable of high speeds but wasn't the best performer, in fact it was one of the worst. 3830 was always regarded as the best performer in the class and reached 90mph on an ARHS trip to Goulburn a few weeks before the famous Newcastle speed run in 1964. On the Goulburn run the train was officially permitted to travel at whatever speed the driver considered to be "reasonably safe". The driver in that instance was Jack Sparks. 3830 was to have been used on the Newcastle speed run and there was going to be an attempt to officially reach 100mph, but NSWGR insisted on 3801 being used and IIRC reached an official top speed of 85mph.

 

There was also the one I was told just recently of a 38 breaking the Sydney-Newcastle record (unofficially). I will not claim validity of the story, and there is no hard evidence that I am aware of, but an interesting story none the less.

There were rumoured to be some unofficial timings beating the 1964 record of on occasions when a 38 worked the train all the way (remember there was normally a loco change at Gosford). The absolute Sydney - Newcastle record is currently held by a 2+5 XPT which did it in 1:56:49 in October 1988. John Glastonbury reckoned 3801 could do it in 1:54 following the 1990s track upgrades but was never allowed to try.

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

The train was reportedly 15mins early into Central, with a minimal amount of coal and a very weary fireman.

That suggests to me the story is apocryphal. Coal wasn't an issue for a 38 on a Flyer. The biggest challenge with a full HUB set load was water management. On the down, if the loco so much as slipped on Epping Bank it would waste so much steam recovering it could not get to Newcastle without stopping for water. On the up there was a similar problem on Hawkmount and Cowan.

 

Cheers

David

[69843]

3801 is easily capable of high speeds but wasn't the best performer, in fact it was one of the worst. 3830 was always regarded as the best performer in the class and reached 90mph on an ARHS trip to Goulburn a few weeks before the famous Newcastle speed run in 1964. On the Goulburn run the train was officially permitted to travel at whatever speed the driver considered to be "reasonably safe". The driver in that instance was Jack Sparks. 3830 was to have been used on the Newcastle speed run and there was going to be an attempt to officially reach 100mph, but NSWGR insisted on 3801 being used and IIRC reached an official top speed of 85mph.

I had heard that '01 was considered one of the dogs of the class, but I hadn't heard about the 100mph attempt with '30. I will ask someone who was well involved with the railways around that time if he has any other information regarding that. It doesn't surprise me that 3801 was used for the official run, being the 1st Pacific and the 1st Streamliner, it always has been the glamor 38.

 

There were rumoured to be some unofficial timings beating the 1964 record of on occasions when a 38 worked the train all the way (remember there was normally a loco change at Gosford). The absolute Sydney - Newcastle record is currently held by a 2+5 XPT which did it in 1:56:49 in October 1988. John Glastonbury reckoned 3801 could do it in 1:54 following the 1990s track upgrades but was never allowed to try.

I'm sure that the lads would love to have a crack at the record, but with the ICE radio to be fitted and the stringent conditions that the trains run under today, I doubt that the record could be had barring some sort of special dispensation being issued.

 

That suggests to me the story is apocryphal. Coal wasn't an issue for a 38 on a Flyer. The biggest challenge with a full HUB set load was water management. On the down, if the loco so much as slipped on Epping Bank it would waste so much steam recovering it could not get to Newcastle without stopping for water. On the up there was a similar problem on Hawkmount and Cowan.

 

Cheers

David

That one's my fault-I had meant water, but mistakenly typed coal.

 

I will also see if I can grab some images of 3830 (amongst others) while down at the museum this Sunday as well if I get a chance.

[69843]

As promised, a large selection of photos from yesterday.

 

3642 upon arrival at Thirlmere, with Henry face for Day out with Thomas. The keen-eyed will pick out BCH 32259 behind 44211, having been moved so some spares for 3642 could be obtained (having been kept in there)

 

7006 sits out in the sun, having had it's overhaul finished and helping with some shunting

 

The Pullman rake sits inside the 'running shed'

 

As promised, a shot of 3830 tucked away at the back of the running shed, being slowly worked on

 

And opposite 3830 is 3616, still occasionally being tinkered with

 

A rare sight was the museums 620/720 set 623/723 operating shuttles up and down between the goods shed platform (opposite the main heritage platform) and the end of the museum shed. This is still in pretty much as withdrawn condition, displaying all the features it ran with in CityRail ownership

 

Parked behind the 620/720 set was the diesels to take us on the return trip, CFCLA 42220 and 42203. The locomotives are on loan to the museum for a few months to help out with tours and such while some of our own locomotives undergo overhauls

 

2705 shuttling past with Set 63

 

4803 sits out on the turntable. It was used to drag 3642 out so it could be lit and worked on, and the pair just fit on the turntable together

 

As has been known for a long time, 3526s new tender is being re-assembled. This now has all the internals fitted to it and is now mounted on the frame, awaiting the bogies and wheelsets to be finished

 

And 3526 herself, awaiting an overhaul and some Caves Express Blue

 

4520 was also in the roundhouse, undergoing work to the motor

 

Heading out the back, and the crane was at full height, and had clearly been moving bogies around

 

And the old tender body of 3526 behind the crane

 

3265 sits at the end of a road, cold but awaiting it's next trip

 

Something people may not have seen or know about is the old picnic shelter. It is actually made from D58 cabs* welded back to back, and I believe these were from never built members of the class. Interestingly, despite being welded together at the same height, the cab handrails on the right are higher than those on the left

 

2705 in Donald guise passes through the gates at the end of the yard

 

J&A Brown 0-6-4T #5, better known as 'The Major', or Mersey Railway 0-6-4T #1

 

A spare 19 class bogie tender from 1937 sits out the back on the 'condemned' line (nothing is currently condemned, they all just require a fair bit of work)

 

SHO 636 out the back in the line of vehicles

 

And speaking of brake vans, VHO 1816 is undergoing major work at the moment. Seen here in the paint shop, the new outside plywood sheeting is going up on the outside

 

7921 in the museum

 

And PWD79

 

And upon the return to Central, the two 422s running around the train

 

We also had a private coach on the rear of the train, BAM1748

 

*As correctly pointed out below, this is actually the shelter made from C36 cabs. The fate of the D58 cab shelter is unknown.

Edited July 8, 2014 by 69843

[SRman]

Nice photos, 69843, and a good variety.

 

Somewhere in my video collection there is some footage of a few of those Mersey 0-6-4Ts in service. I always thought they were incredibly ugly!! They are also very interesting with the very heavy looking rivets and the outside frames and cranks, plus the rather odd spacing of the driving wheels.

In my collection of (my own) photos, I have a couple of shots of the 620/720 motors in service at Newcastle. I have been scanning in several historic photos, mostly of Queensland Railways but there are a few NSW ones and Flying Scotsman in Australia too. The 620/720 shots are a little blurry and probably not really worth posting here, though.

 

Edited to correctly reflect the class references.

Edited July 7, 2014 by SRman

[69843]

Nice photos, 69843, and a good variety.

 

Somewhere in my video collection there is some footage of a few of those Mersey 0-6-4Ts in service. I always thought they were incredibly ugly!! They are also very interesting with the very heavy looking rivets and the outside frames and cranks.

 

In my collection of (my own) photos, I have a couple of shots of the 600/700 motors in service at Newcastle. I have been scanning in several historic photos, mostly of Queensland Railways but there are a few NSW ones and Flying Scotsman in Australia too. The 600/700 shots are a little blurry and probably not really worth posting here, though.

Thanks mate.

 

The Mersey's are a bit of a bulky looking engine, but for ugliness, I just can't go past Bronzewing!

 

Any shots would be worth posting, as some of us have never seen the 620/720s in service for various reasons. Can't be worse than some shots I have in my collection!

[gazmanjack]

Speaking of the 620/720 rail motors, here is 622/722 that resides at Tenterfield, Northern NSW.

 

 

...and a rail motor I would really like to see return to the rails..., 'The Silver City Comet'. What a dissapointing state she is in...

 

 

Cheers, Gary.

 

 

[69843]

Interesting you bring that up Gary...

 

While in a shabby external condition, the mechanicals are in fairly good order and there is talking going on to if it's possible to take it mainline in the near future. If that does happen, I think it would be an ideal tool to run trips with, the only downside is the one powercar means there has to be a run-around available for it to use. For that reason, areas such as Cronulla would be off limits unless a diesel was used on the rear. And with 4 passenger cars available, it would be an interesting short train to run. It could also be used as an alternative on the branch to 2705 and Set 63.

 

So, while it may not happen for a bit, don't write it off just yet....

[Craigw]

The cabs in the photo are actually from a belpaire 36 class, notionally from the two that were not converted from round top boilers (3622 and 3663). There are (or were ) some other cabs that were from the 58 class order. These were originally from Enfield and moved to Thirlmere.

 

Craig W

[69843]

Cheers for that. I'll have to sack my eyes (again!). The 58 class cabs are in an unknown area, or scrapped then.

 

There was talk of possibly rebuilding 3609 with a 'round top boiler' (not sure how, but I think would involve a new cosmetic top section), new, original style cab and the 'Hawkesbury' nameplates, but I doubt that will happen.

[faulcon1]

They seem to be very reluctant here in NSW to do major overhauls of steam locos because of the cost and seem to do patch up jobs instead. One day engines like 3801, 3830, 3642, 3526, 3265 and others will need new frames. Nothing lasts forever. When G42 was restored it was given brand new frames as the old ones were worn out. New boilers will be needed one day once they've got through the current stock of boilers.

If 3830 needs a brand new boiler/firebox/smokebox I can only hope that they get a local company to do it after all the problems that 3801 has had with the Germans. They should get a local company that is able to build a brand new boiler/firebox/smokebox and not just put out a tender for the cheapest available job.

In a way it's good that the first boiler didn't fit 3801 as it's allowed a much more thorough restoration job than was originally planned.

The same with the locos tyres. They seem to often think "well the tyres are almost worn out so will take the wheels off another loco instead and use those, instead of thinking " those tyres are almost worn out so we'll have to get new ones". Oh Oh the cost the cost!!!!!. They are state owned after all.

I wonder what a 38 would be like with a Lempor exhaust. 

[DavidB-AU]

They seem to be very reluctant here in NSW to do major overhauls of steam locos because of the cost and seem to do patch up jobs instead. One day engines like 3801, 3830, 3642, 3526, 3265 and others will need new frames. Nothing lasts forever.

The frame is what gives the loco its identity. You can replace every other component and it's still the same loco. When you build a new frame, you are essentially building a new loco.

 

When G42 was restored it was given brand new frames as the old ones were worn out.

Hence there was a very serious suggestion at the time that it should in fact be called G43.

 

Cheers

David

[69843]

They seem to be very reluctant here in NSW to do major overhauls of steam locos because of the cost and seem to do patch up jobs instead. One day engines like 3801, 3830, 3642, 3526, 3265 and others will need new frames. Nothing lasts forever. When G42 was restored it was given brand new frames as the old ones were worn out. New boilers will be needed one day once they've got through the current stock of boilers.

If 3830 needs a brand new boiler/firebox/smokebox I can only hope that they get a local company to do it after all the problems that 3801 has had with the Germans. They should get a local company that is able to build a brand new boiler/firebox/smokebox and not just put out a tender for the cheapest available job.

In a way it's good that the first boiler didn't fit 3801 as it's allowed a much more thorough restoration job than was originally planned.

The same with the locos tyres. They seem to often think "well the tyres are almost worn out so will take the wheels off another loco instead and use those, instead of thinking " those tyres are almost worn out so we'll have to get new ones". Oh Oh the cost the cost!!!!!. They are state owned after all.

I wonder what a 38 would be like with a Lempor exhaust. 

A lot of locomotives DO go through major overhauls. 3642s return to steam was no small job, and everyone knows the stories of 3801. If we do patch up jobs, why have we spent the time to build a new tender body for 3526? Why has 5917 just spent 4 years in at Everleigh being returned to operational condition for the LVR? Why was 3801 placed in for overhaul and a new boiler, rather than just patching the old one up and hoping it didn't have more problems? Why did 3265 get a new boiler when it was overhauled, rather than patching up the old one?

 

And as to tyres, why did 3642 get a new set of tyres just the other year, and why is 3526 having new tyres put on her as part of her current overhaul?

 

While there is a saving grace in having the time to do a lot more work on 3801 while the boiler is being rebuilt, the fact is that not having her back is hurting us. We only have one mainline locomotive that is able to be operated at the current time (not including 2705, which is mainline capable and registered, but 60kph max limited), and occasionally hiring in 3265 from the Powerhouse Museum costs money, and then it needs to be crewed.

 

 

On the frames point, it's an interesting one as many locomotives of the NSWGR were reframed such as the 35s and 32s, yet they were still known as the same locos.

Edited July 10, 2014 by 69843

[PhilH]

The frame is what gives the loco its identity. You can replace every other component and it's still the same loco. When you build a new frame, you are essentially building a new loco.

 

 

 

 

What happens when you give an engine 1/2 a new frame as we did with 60019.....

[69843]

What happens when you give an engine 1/2 a new frame as we did with 60019.....

You divide it by 2

 

Ergo 4464/19/60019 would then be 2232/9.5/30009.5 (Said with tongue firmly in cheek)

[PhilH]

Wow...must be all that sun (again with tfic)

[69843]

It does start to take effect after a while!

 

In all seriousness though, as the locomotive still retains it's frames, I would still call it the same locomotive.

 

3526 was reframed in 1940, having been built in 1917. The locomotive was originally known as NN1314, then numbered 3526 in 1924. Therefor, even though she gained new frames (and a new cab and running board valiencing amongst other changes), it is still 3526.