hartleymartin Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Peco make a range of coach side panels, which are listed as part of their 7mm narrow gauge products. I've never seen them sold anywhere, and I do not recall ever seeing a coach made from them. Has anyone here ever done it or seen one done so? I'm wondering if they might be handy for building coaches in 7mm standard gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I have some pannels, but yet to do anything with them. They look to be very good and I have seen a coach made from them at a show. I think on an earlier thread I started a comment was made that they are larger in height than the sides from their narrow gauge coach and would be better suited to a standard gauge coach. The height of the sides is 48mm against their narrow gauge coach which is 40mm. I do have 2 other Ffestiniog coaches one is 40mm and the other 48mm high !! A couple of coaches I have looked at in 4mm come in at 25mm high which comes out at 44mm. I got mine direct from Peco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 This was taken at Pecorama last month ... I believe it was made up from the coach sides. Although I haven't purchased the sides, I have purchased a number of other peco 7mm components from my local model shop. They don't carry them in stock, but they don't have a problem ordering them from Peco. Any shop which stocks peco stuff like OO/HO track should be able to add something like this to their orders ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Yes they look very much like the ones I have in a packet. Certainly not from their 4 wheeled coaches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Can't help with your original question but if you're into 7mm narrow gauge I wonder if you've ever come across the Smallbrook Studios range? There may be some bits that suit what you have in mind there. http://www.smallbrookstudio.com/page_1201118902437.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2013 Another alternative for coach sides can be found on the Port Wynnstay pages of the EDM Models site here http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Port_Wynnstay/freelance.htm Various sides and ends are available in resin to enable you to build a variety of coach styles - other kits are available for specific prototypes - mostly Festiniog. Going back to the original question, I have a drawing dated 23 July 1998 from PECO addressed to the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association. Although there is no scale on the drawing, the sides appear to be about 48mm high - so that's about 7ft and follow the Lynton and Barnstaple style with the drawing showing the coach side down to the height of the rail with bogies almost hidden. With a different underframe they might be suitable for a small standard gauge coach? The details below have been copied from the 7mmNGA sales list OR50 Single Window Coach Door x 6 £7.15 OR51 Single Window Coach Panel x 6 £6.75 OR52 Double Window Coach Panel x 6 £7.15 OR53 Saloon Window Coach Panel x 6 £6.75 OR54 Assorted Coach Windows x 7 £5.75 OR55 Coach Window Blanks x 8 £4.40 OR56 Coach Window Duckets x 8 £4.40 Hope that helps Mike Edit - format of table went wrong and so I have changed the sales list Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 I'm thinking to put these components to use to make some free-lanced short 4-wheel coaches for a light railway themed layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 The only thing against using them for standard gauge is the lack of a tumblehome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm sure the lack of a tumblehome could be fixed, or else simply ignored. I'm looking to make what will look like an ancient hand-me-down coach that once belonged to a rather obscure company. The 1850's and 1860's-era 4-wheel coaches I've seen in the Powerhouse Museum, Sydney don't all have a tumblehome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If you want some older pre-grouping coaches a better option might be the resin sides and ends available from Peter Cowling. He does not have a website but he will send you details if you e-mail him at:- petercowling377@btinternet.com I have only recently discovered his range of coach parts and received my first order from him last week. I was very impressed with the quality of the castings I received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The first of my Peco Coach panels arrived today. The sides are 7 scale feet tall and the single-window panel is 2 scale feet wide. It would appear, on the basis that the door panel is the same width and the double-panel is exactly double width, that they would be ideal for standard-gauge coach bodies. However, you would end up with compartments of a fixed size, not reflecting the fact that different class compartments were often different widths for extra leg-room, so you would be rather stuck with building either all-3rd or all-1st or brake-3rd vehicles. I have read David Jenkinson's book on Coach-Building. I have made some small 4-wheel goods vehicles, which wouldn't be too much of a far leap to a coach, but the Peco panels are better than what I can make by hand, so I will use them. I still have to make the ends, roof, chassis, etc. I believe in making what you can, and buying what you either cannot make or don't feel like making. For example, I have no interest in making the axle-box, W-iron, spring assemblies (commonly known as axle-guards), which can be bought for a few quid rather than spending a couple of hours going blind making fiddly bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2013 Martin. Pleased that you are happy with them - it seems such a long time ago when we first asked Peco about producing these - at one time there had been talk about the 7mm Narrow Gauge Assn being the sole stockist but that didn't happen - who supplied yours? Peco also do a couple of 'exclusives' for the Assn - you may have seen their O16.5 van and 4 wheel coaches - extra sides for these are available to enable longer vehicles to be produced. I look forward to seeing how this project develops Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Through an online seller on ebay. I got done on the postage, but local suppliers are unreliable when it comes to unusual items (anything other than track or trackside kits!) By my calculations, I'll have a 4-compartment 24'-long carriage. I recently obtained a drawing of a Furness Railway vehicle which was 25' long over the body, and this will be more or less the design I will follow. It has a nice light-railway feel to it, without being an obviously Colonel Stephens item. It will go well with my Ixion Hudswell Clarke and motely collection of 4-wheeled goods vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2013 It will go well with my Ixion Hudswell Clarke and motely collection of 4-wheeled goods vehicles. Looking forward to seeing how this develops - I too have an Ixion loco and a few wagons . . . . but no boards, no track and my friends would say 'no ideas either' !! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Mike, The GWR Brake 3rd coach available from slaters is a near-enough model of the coach that the Easingwold Railway used from about the 1920s until it's closing. This with a few random wagons, maybe a "borrowed" brake van, or one bought second-hand from a mainline company, and you've got the makings of a light-railway layout in the style of Colonel Stephens. Just allowing for the methods of construction that I will be using, I think the coach will actually end up closer to 24'6" in length due to adding the end panels. However, this is still a lovely shorty coach. Another thought is that a 3-compartment coach using the same arrangement of Peco panels would result in an 18' coach, though if you used the saloon panels for a middle first-class compartment you could end up with a nice 22' coach. I've got several ideas, including one which would have a half-comparment for servants, an end-compartment for luggage and a middle saloon compartment for first class. Possibly the special coach for the local Nobleman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 Made a couple of coach sides using the Peco Coach panels. These sides are just shy of 23 scale feet long. They'll probably be something like 23'2" or some other strange figure when I put the (scratch-built) ends on. Very quick and easy to make up the sides, but you do have to trim the little tabs slightly otherwise you might not get a straight join between the panels. A couple of passes with a light file is all it takes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 Found myself a few axlebox castings which might do the trick. They have 7' long springs. I wonder... is a 12'6" wheelbase believable for a 23' coach? *edit* Turns out that I have two complete sets of these castings, so I could make a second coach to go with this one... Annie and Clarabel, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 On reflection, a 23' vehicle with a 12'6" wheelbase would ride like a cattle-van. These springs are not as fine, but would allow me to have up to a 15' wheelbase. I've also noticed that I can get sprung units for fitting wheelsets to coaches, making these castings purely decorative. http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Suspension%20Unit%20Instructions%20coach%20wheels%20pdf.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Keep in mind that you'll want some form of C-channel as a chassis frame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 I've got some .250" x .80" styrene section. This one's getting a timber underframe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Timber underframes are not at all improbable on an ancient coach. Though I think they were sometimes 'flitched' that is they had a sheet of cast iron added which acted as a sort of giant washer to help secure the bolts holding the frame together. This is an interesting project. I have been thinking about assembling a rake of decrepit 4 wheelers to act as a miner's train - this would be one possible route to make one of the coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 One thing to consider is that each packet has 6 of each type of panel. The coach I am working on required 4x single window panels, 6x double window panels and 8x door panels. I have not yet even purchased the glazing to go with them! A 4-compartment coach is about 23' long, and a 5-compartment would be about 28'6". Beyond this length I think that you would have to make them short bogie coaches. Certainly, I think that a rake of ancient miner's coaches could be quite convincingly made from these. To make them look like ancient 3rd class vehicles I've thought about using half-height partitions. Those really long springs would probably work better on the longer vehicle. Probably a brake 3rd type of some sort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Half-height partitions were far from unknown. The GER and NLR (to my knowledge) had them in some of their 4 wheel stock. I suspect one reason was so that one lamp could be made to serve two compartments. As to length, the MS&L ones were 27ft, so the 28' 6" one would certainly not be far out. I am confident some of the earlier stuff would have been a lot shorter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 In hindsight, I should probably have made a 5-compartment all-3rd coach, and then a brake-3rd at this shorter length. Oh well, next time. I'll have a rather nice short coach, which will probably hint at being from the 1860s/70s at only 23 feet in length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 In hindsight, I should probably have made a 5-compartment all-3rd coach, and then a brake-3rd at this shorter length. Oh well, next time. I'll have a rather nice short coach, which will probably hint at being from the 1860s/70s at only 23 feet in length. Martin Would be nice to see the odd photo of your progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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