Track Plan Ideas Please

[Barry M]

Hi everybody,

 

My first post here!  Exciting times ahead!

About to start a garage conversion and when all is complete, I'll be starting the layout of my dreams!! 

Attached is the available space I want to work with, although there will be some 'flex' available. Grid squares are in feet.

OO Scale

It will be completely DCC controlled.

Era - Late 50's to mid 60's, probably GWR area but the idea of East Midlands also attracts.

 

Track planning is my nemesis, particularly because I want an upper and lower level.

 

If any members here would have the time to kindly suggest some kind of track plan to get me started, I would be very grateful.

 

Perhaps what I want to achieve here is not 'doable' in the space allocated?

 

Thanks everyone in advance.

 

Best wishes to all,

 

Barry

[Edge]

Might I suggest picking up 'Modelling the Steam Age Railway' by Cyril Freezer. An excellent book chock full of great plans that you could easily adapt for your layout. I think I picked my copy up from amazon for 1p

[Gruffalo]

Welcome Barry!

 

Umm, the terminus would be out-and-back I assume. You are potentially looking at a complex (and therefore expensive) arrangement as soon as you mention HL Branch and LL FY. If that is acceptable, how about something like Penzance for the Terminus (you could easily get 7' platforms in this space) with a small MPD where your GY is show and then curve round to a relocated goods facility on the "east" side. If you move the Branch Terminus to above the indicated LL fiddle, you can get a significant scenic break between your goods and the BLT whilst the main lines would descend near the top of the small well and could easily lead to a significant fiddle yard under the relocated goods yard before climbing back away from but under the BLT and then reappearing as a Down line where the Up line disappeared?

[Barry M]

Thanks for your very quick responses!

 

Gruffalo - is this what you had in mind? The Up line descending under the BLT would have a very tight curve from under the MLT would it not?

Apologies for the drawing - can't draw with a mouse!

 

Thanks again for your ideas - Please keep them coming!

 

Barry

[Nick Holliday]

I have a number of thoughts

• Have you decided the items that you really want, and those that would be nice to have? 
• Is the BLT an essential item, as that is the hardest to fit in sensibly? It also may be a step too far in what you might be able to achieve / maintain.
• Are the rectangular operating areas fixed, or could you adjust them a bit?
• Have you thought how you would reach into the furthest corners on the right hand end, as the reach is getting on for 4 feet?
• Do you want to have trains circulating, or just out and back?
• How many operators are you going to have?  If it is only going to be you, most of the time, then having most of the different elements together might be useful.

I have drafted a very crude plan which sets the passenger station at an angle, so that it softens the curves leading from the bottom part of the circuit, and this seems to allow the introduction of a triangle which would allow you to have trains running on the ovals whilst dealing with the main station traffic, and give a nice sweep of track on which to show off your stock.  The platform area could be at least 5 feet long, which would fit nicely with the possible maximum length in the fiddle yard of around 4 feet. (4 or 5 coaches perhaps maximum)

The angled platforms would then allow the development of a small goods yard at the left hand end, with a headshunt following the curve of the main line, while your MPD could be outside the triangle on the other side.  This arrangement would put all of the main elements directly accessible from a single operating point, with only the fiddle yard accessible only from the other well.  Even then there would be the possibility of changing the trains remotely from the main operating point, although the choice might not be very wide.

If the branch line and terminus are absolute musts, then it could run around the top half of the layout, between the MPD and the main line, and gradually rising as it enters the pair of tunnels leading to the fiddle yard, passing behind the fiddle yard, continuing to rise, until in the bottom left corner it makes a sharp turn and crosses over the main line to reach the terminus on the other side of the operating well.  This would then give the fiddle yard operator something else to play with while the main operator gets tied up in knots!

 

 

 

[Gruffalo]

Nick has made a pretty good suggestion there Barry. A branch line could run with a gradient of 1:40 whist you would want 1:50 for your main line. The branch can go up further before falling back to the BLT to add variation and to clear the fiddle yard.

I would try to work on 36" radius for the main line and 24" for the branch and that may squeeze the operating well in order to use the larger radius in the main terminus throat.

[Barry M]

Hi Nick,

 

Thank you for taking the time to do that and also all the advice.

In answer to your questions:

• Have you decided the items that you really want, and those that would be nice to have?  Well not totally - although the elements of Main Line Station, Goods Yard and MPD I had relied on. I also want differing levels to break up the 'train set' look. I was unsure about letting the trains go 'round & round' as that too seemed train set like - although I will be the only operator!
•  
• Is the BLT an essential item, as that is the hardest to fit in sensibly? It also may be a step too far in what you might be able to achieve / maintain. Not totally essential! But desirable?
•  
• Are the rectangular operating areas fixed, or could you adjust them a bit? They could be adjusted, no problem, as long as the basic shape remains the same.
•  
• Have you thought how you would reach into the furthest corners on the right hand end, as the reach is getting on for 4 feet? I had missed that one! Thought about it at one end but not the other!
•  
• Do you want to have trains circulating, or just out and back? As mentioned earlier - I thought circling was a bit train set like but it would allow, more operator time for other elements?
•  
• How many operators are you going to have?  If it is only going to be you, most of the time, then having most of the different elements together might be useful. Yes - Just me! Point noted!

I like the idea of that plan very much Nick. Also, it looks like it gives the option of out and back or 'roundy roundy'!

I would like to keep the BLT - It would break it up a bit with the differing levels don't you think?

Thank you again for the time you have taken with this - please keep firing the ideas!

 

Barry

[Barry M]

Hi Gruffalo,

 

Thank you for the figures and the idea of the Branch.

Do think just have the branch running over the fiddle yard with plenty of scenery to break it up? It's a run of about 4' - wouldn't look too 'boring' (for want of a better word!), would it?

 

Barry

[Barry M]

Here's the new grid which would incorporate Nick's idea.

 

Barry

[Barry M]

Hi Peter,

 

This wouldn't be my first layout, so I know exactly what you mean.

Thank you for the excellent advice

I feel confident with Code 100....or shall I progress to Code 75....?!

 

Decisions, decisions!

 

Barry

[Nick Holliday]

It has also occurred to me that the triangle will greatly increase your operation variety.  It can be used to turn your locos, so you won't have to waste space with a turntable (unless you've already got one) and you could have trains reversing in the platforms - the train runs in one side of the triangle, a second loco backs onto the rear and then departs along the other side of the triangle.  Since you are using DCC this shouldn't cause (too many) electrical problems, unlike such an arrangement in non-DCC.

[Flying Pig]

A variation on the theme is seen at Inverness and Southport where the outer platforms serve only one leg of a triangle. You might be able to increase your maximum train length this way and you'd have a kind of end to end running between one side of the station and t'other, with as many laps of the main line in between as you liked.  Put some carriage sidings in the station area (between the platform roads, or there's one at Southport between a platform road and the train shed wall) and it wouldn't matter if the trains were longer than the fiddle yard.

 

In fact with enough sidings in the station area, does Nick's scheme even need a fiddle yard?  Perhaps you could make it a small marshalling yard to hold your wagons without hiding them.

[Barry M]

Hi Flying Pig,

 

Thanks for the input. Great links - what did we do before Google?

 

I'm now going to have a play with AnyRail - in the words of one of Captain Scott's party - 'I may be some time'!

 

Barry

[Barry M]

Ok - made a start. High Level Branch Line Terminus complete. (Basic)

 

Will there be enough run to climb the gradient to the BLT? Can't seem to work the maths out!

 

The triangle is proving fun!

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and advice.

 

Barry

[trisonic]

My only advice (after many failures) is ensure that it is achievable in the time you have available for it - I know you have other things that eat away at your time.

 

Something relatively simple following the Lance Mindheim approach (the principles of which can be applied to the UK model) can be very satisfying and look right rather than have a "spaghetti junction" of criss-crossing track and stations a few hundred (real) yards apart.

 

Best, Pete.

[jon_1066]

You need as much distance for the incline as possible.  Because of this I would take out the kink in the branchline by the fiddle yard.  This unnecessarily takes it over the main line so limits where you can start the fall.  Without that you can take it back to the bottom of the U to start the fall.  You therefore have about 12' which gives 1 in 48 for a 3" rise so should be OK.

 

Also could you put a junction in with the double track mainline?  This would allow you to construct the fiddle yard and mainline loop with the branch without having the mainline terminus, MPD and goods yard.  Once you have the former you can then add the latter in stages.

[Barry M]

I've straightened out the kink in the branch over the fiddle yard as Jon suggested - thanks Jon.

 

Here is the first effort of the completed plan.

 

Can I ask for your opinions and advice please. Does it look realistic? Feasible?

 

Thank you all very much in advance.

 

Barry

 

 

 

[ess1uk]

look ok to me.

wish i had as much space

[jon_1066]

What are you going to do for a fiddle yard?  Fan of points, traverser, cassettes?  I would suggest that you look at this element carefully as that will govern your longest train.  You have two sets of curved lines entering it at the minute that don't look like they will lend themselves to creating much storage.

 

The bottom platform is unnecessary in your MLT since you have access from the other side.  This will allow you to have a carriage siding where that platform sits or extend you goods facilities..

[Barry M]

Thanks Jon. I have always thought the fiddle yard not really necessary and I take your point about storage.

 

I would like to incorporate a colliery, but not sure if it would fit in with the double mainline and if it would look in place.

But I guess a colliery branch off the mainline would be normal?

 

Failing that, some kind of wagon storage yard perhaps?

 

Also I take your point about the lower platform in the MLT. But that would leave only two main platforms? Is that realistically enough?

 

Thanks again for all your advice. Hopefully others will chip too.

 

Barry

[Gruffalo]

Hi again Barry,

 

Jon_1066 is pretty smart at this game, he has helped me in creating a workable and viable plan. I agree that the lower platform should go and become carriage sidings.

 

If you move your MLT goods tracks up a little, you could allow another siding for wagons but please watch whatever you will need to reach over to get to the turntable head-shunt - it is already a 3' reach without any structures on the way!

 

I am not sure a colliery is a good idea as it will take quite a bit of space and you already have packed a lot onto the baseboards. Some of the most pleasing models on this site are built on the "less is more" principle and your town served by the MLT will need to be of sufficient stature to justify the size of station. As soon as the branch line starts to climb,, you will need to incorporate some sort of scenic break to create the illusion of the line going somewhere. Perhaps your colliery will assist in that but I wold think it would need to be located between the indicated fiddle yard and the BLT to be a sufficient focal point although getting wagons onto the main may be a little difficult. How about heavy engineering instead, steelworks?

[Barry M]

Hi again Gruffalo,

 

I will loose the bottom platform as you both suggest.

 

Also, I see what you're saying about the reach for the MPD. You're so right about it becoming 'too much' - maybe if I loose the MPD and that is a good place to locate the 'town'? or perhaps just shorten the track to the turntable, which will create more room?

 

I was going to replace the fiddle yard with the colliery or steelworks as you suggest, but maybe that would be a good place for a MPD - somewhat displaced from the town though?

 

Barry

[Joseph_Pestell]

Can I go back to the beginning and ask where the entrance door to the room is? It seems a pity that you have:

1) created two operating wells (with need to duckunder)

2) created a space for the BLT which is very cramped, particularly for length.

 

Many years ago, I designed something similar for a garage. The "triangle" joined the continuous low-level loop by way of a flyover. That allows a bit more length for the platforms in the main terminus. In that design, the terminus (passenger only) was narrower than yours so one could still get the car into the garage with the bonnet underneath the continuous run.

 

Without a car and depending on the location of the access door, there may be much more suitable arrangements with the terminus on a peninsular down the middle of the room.

[Barry M]

I have now lost the bottom platform and replaced it with a carriage siding. I have also shortened the track to the turntable and lost the fiddle yard. This area I will use for the outskirts of 'town' and  scenery.

 

Joseph - I have indicated the door and other areas of the garage conversion. I know what you mean by having by having a terminus down the middle, but how could I design it with the area I have available? Perhaps you would be kind enough to post a rough sketch for me?

 

Again, please throw all your ideas and comments in.........I think there will be many more changes and possibly a visit right back to the beginning!

 

Thanks all.

 

Barry

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks Barry, that's much clearer. The door is at the most awkward location. And I have never been very keen on "study" (scraped a 2.2 despite being perfectly capable of a first).

 

That said, a desk will be at 75cm above floor level and layout at about 120cm. So my first point would be to put passenger platforms above the study area and the goods depot (or possibly the MPD) in the top left corner. You can gain a lot of platform length that way (and be suitably distracted from worthy studies).

 

I am a bit pushed for time as working a long day tomorrow (Sunday!). So no time to draw a decent plan but as previously the upper link from terminus would go down an incline to join the continuous run from the outside. The lower link from the terminus goes over the continuous run and comes down to the inside. The continuous run is formed by way of diverting trains over two double junctions.

 

Doubtful if you can fit the BLT in as well unless it is on a hinged baseboard that drops down across the door but I will give that some more thought.