N15class Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Hi all, I have a slight delema about wagon livery. I have just got a 7mm kit for a low machinery wagon. The instructions say it was painted grey. I thought wagons revenue stock were painted brown, except for the refigerated ones etc. From what I have read I cannot remember any mention of grey, unless I have missed something. Unfortunatly my livery books are still in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2013 With tags including LSWR and SR, we don't really have much to go on, Peter! Era, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Sorry I thought I was clear on wanting to know about why a kit said the livery for a wagon was grey when I thought they were all brown. If there was grey, what when and how. Plus I cannot remember reading about any grey livery. I model about 1930, but am interested about anytime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2013 From the HMRS Livery Register: "Wagons acquired from the S&DJR in 1914 retained their grey livery." " Mr West has recorded one ex-LSWR open wagon, no 4058E, in dark grey (1939) and this may not have been an isolated case" "The normal colouring for tool vans etc was dark grey, used by the Civil Engineer's Department, but....this shade faded considerably in service with long exposure and lack of renewal" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 From the HMRS Livery Register: "Wagons acquired from the S&DJR in 1914 retained their grey livery." " Mr West has recorded one ex-LSWR open wagon, no 4058E, in dark grey (1939) and this may not have been an isolated case" "The normal colouring for tool vans etc was dark grey, used by the Civil Engineer's Department, but....this shade faded considerably in service with long exposure and lack of renewal" I was really puzzled about the grey. I am just confused why it should say grey in the instruction. They said brown for LSWR so why grey for SR. I suppose the machinery trucks could all of been taken over by the engineering department. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Another question on painting a machinery truck. Am I right in presuming that the frame plates would of been black? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Hi all I am just finishing a scratch built road van in 7mm. I am after the colours for the interior. Would the van portion be white with wooden floor? I have got it in my head that the guards portion of the van would be green upto waist, and white or cream above. If anyone can comfirm or correct I would be gratefull Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Road Van. If in SR livery this would have a buff/ yellow interior. From an original vehicle paint traces a good match was "Caterpillar Yellow" (ie: Caterpillar Diesel colour) The Guard s portion having the same colour above the waist, brown below with a black line between. Balcony interior: Brown. Floor: Natural Wood. Ceilings: White Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Road Van. If in SR livery this would have a buff/ yellow interior. From an original vehicle paint traces a good match was "Caterpillar Yellow" (ie: Caterpillar Diesel colour) The Guard s portion having the same colour above the waist, brown below with a black line between. Balcony interior: Brown. Floor: Natural Wood. Ceilings: White Pete Thanks Pete God knows where my brain picked up the colours I thought they were. They will look quite bright inside. I know yellow was often used in high wear areas and pubs as it di not show dirt and smoke stains so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The windows (if any) on brake vans were few and often very small, so any bright interior paint would be a benefit to the occupant of the vehicle. The Pill-box brakevans had additional windows cut into the wall in the verandah ends of the body to let additional light in after complaints from the guards... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Whilst on the subject of brake vans. Does anyone know what colour the hand rails would be? I have a feeling they would not of been painted white as they are now. I would think either body colour or black any clues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 In SR livery handrails would be white. This is a safety feature to aid visibility in poor light and probably common with many other companies. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Hi Heres a little poser on colour. The books I have all say that LSWR and Southern both used "vermillion" (another name for red oxide) between the frames. Did they ever change to the brighter red you see on preserved locos and models? Also if so at what date was the change? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Vermillion is a colour which is not very specific, the name has been applied to a variety of shades of red from bright red to a dull brick red or even a purple red shade.. The colour as used by the Southern was a bright red as per the models and preservation you have noted. In service however red tends to fade and over a period of time becomes more of a brick red. A much duller red was used on engineers vehicles , this was closer to the later BR Bauxite in shade. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted November 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2015 Pete, In the 1970's when I was training to be a ship's navigator in the Merchant Navy, we were still mixing paints from their constituents. I remember Linseed and fish oils, ochre and red lead powders, soot type powder and white lead paste. The ship's funnel colour was buff which was arrived at simply by mixing a bit of everything together. The white was the white lead paste mixed with the oils; black was everything in moderation with a lot of soot looking stuff; the undercoat/rust inhibitor (very necessary at sea) was the red lead mixed with the fish oil with a bit of ochre or white lead to get variations so you could see the second or third coat being applied over the first one. In other words, this, being a shipping company, must have been a very cheap way of getting paint made up and I am sure the Railways would have been doing the same thing! I remember ochre and soot gave a very dark green - Stroudley goods perhaps? Adding a bit of red lead made it lighter. It wasn't until the 1930s that real commercial quantities seemed to be made using petroleum products and I am sure there would be lots to use up first. By the time I left the MN in the late 1980's there was two part epoxy based paints, high build, paints that were made to wear away with friction to stop marine growth and all kinds of things that were completely incompatible with one another, not like before. In other words, just pick something that looks right and argue the case as above if there is any argument! Especially if you are over in a different country where it is difficult to import things unless you get them from a trip back like you have just had! Cheers, and many thanks as I have found all your work and explanations very helpful and educational. Ian in Blackpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks for the help on that on. I will be spraying tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hi Heres a little poser on colour. The books I have all say that LSWR and Southern both used "vermillion" (another name for red oxide) between the frames. Did they ever change to the brighter red you see on preserved locos and models? Also if so at what date was the change? Vermillion is NOT another name for Red oxide. Red oxide is an Iron Oxide based pigment (basically rust) whilst Vermillion is a Mercury Sulphide compound and a much brighter red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Vermillion is NOT another name for Red oxide. Red oxide is an Iron Oxide based pigment (basically rust) whilst Vermillion is a Mercury Sulphide compound and a much brighter red. Thanks for that. You learn something each day. I had read somewhere it was red oxide, just goes to show you should not believe everything you read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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