Derailment in Bretigny-sur-Orge

[mikeharvey22]

Bit sickened to read that looters may have been searching amongst the deceased who had yet to be freed from the wreckage.

And in the early stages the French press reported that local people were attacking the rescue services! Sound familiar? from what I am reading on various French groups, the French have little faith in accurate press reporting.

 

Mike

[Fat Controller]

And in the early stages the French press reported that local people were attacking the rescue services! Sound familiar? from what I am reading on various French groups, the French have little faith in accurate press reporting.

 

Mike

A lot of the claims about the conduct of the locals relies on comments from one of the police unions; some have been discounted by other, more official, police sources.

[mikeharvey22]

Two messages here from IN1527 provide the official position.

 

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t18305p45-nouvel-accident-de-train including some useful diagrams.

 

My loose translation of the details added as a later edit:-

 

“The most plausible hypothesis to explain how a train could derail (in these circumstances) is currently as follows:-

 

For reasons not yet known a fishplate situated 10cm from the frog of a scissors crossover (a sort of crossover which allows running on 4 different routes) had broken. On one side of the rail that part of the fishplate had simply fallen. On the other one bolt had stayed in place allowing the fishplate to revolve around this to the extent that it was raised above rail level. This was then in contact with an axle – which shows significant marks – which then caused the train to derail. The fishplate found close to the frog was 10-15cm from its point of installation and exhibits damage. SNCF has not commented on the condition of the fixings but one bolt shows a clean break probably occurring at the moment of the accident. A fishplate is being sent for a detailed metallography which with other evidence will determine the exact cause of the breakage and the course of events which led to the accident.”

 

Mike

[The Stationmaster]

As I read it it was a double slip  ('aguillage double' - although that is not the official translation for a double slip but that would be a bit complicated for a public statement) and there appears to be one just north of the station although it doesn't show up very clearly on Google maps and might be a plain diamond.

[eastwestdivide]

Useful photos on SNCF's twitter site: 

https://twitter.com/SNCF_infopresse/media/grid

appearing to show a plain diamond in a diagram, and some damaged parts of pointwork, including a fishplate embedded in a crossing 'V'

[Fat Controller]

The Wikipedia site on French pointwork suggests that it was a double slip:-

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appareil_de_voie

 

There is a very clear photo of a double-slip, labelled as 'Les traversées jonction doubles (TJD)' . I have heard this term used to describe 'scissors crossovers' as well; we haven't any 'slips' (which are something else completely in French), but we do have three scissors crossovers. That outside the French portal seems to be universally referred to as 'Le X de Beussinges', and those in the tunnel as 'les crossovers'...

[The Stationmaster]

The Wikipedia site on French pointwork suggests that it was a double slip:-

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appareil_de_voie

 

There is a very clear photo of a double-slip, labelled as 'Les traversées jonction doubles (TJD)' . I have heard this term used to describe 'scissors crossovers' as well; we haven't any 'slips' (which are something else completely in French), but we do have three scissors crossovers. That outside the French portal seems to be universally referred to as 'Le X de Beussinges', and those in the tunnel as 'les crossovers'...

or 'the English crossover' and 'the French crossover'  (thus carefully ignoring the other English one!).

 

In the SNCF link the short video show s checks being made on a slip (single in that case) while the damage picture - assuming it is from Bertigny - has too many shiny running edges for a plain diamond although the latter is shown in the diagram (maybe for simplicity?).  And of course a double slip has four possible routes while a diamond only has two.

[mikeharvey22]

or 'the English crossover' and 'the French crossover'  (thus carefully ignoring the other English one!).

 

In the SNCF link the short video show s checks being made on a slip (single in that case) while the damage picture - assuming it is from Bertigny - has too many shiny running edges for a plain diamond although the latter is shown in the diagram (maybe for simplicity?).  And of course a double slip has four possible routes while a diamond only has two.

Sorry if my description of the crossing is incorrect, being thrown by the 4 routes and not having seen the crossing in question. In the end the point of providing the translation was the info about the fishplate pivoting up, the apparent consequence of which was to send a vehicle in the middle of the train by an unintended route.

 

Mike

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry if my description of the crossing is incorrect, being thrown by the 4 routes and not having seen the crossing in question. In the end the point of providing the translation was the info about the fishplate pivoting up, the apparent consequence of which was to send a vehicle in the middle of the train by an unintended route.

 

Mike

Don't worry Mike - my comments weren't meant as any sort of criticism of you but rather hopefully building on the information you supplied.

[roythebus]

I think we should offer our condolences to the families who lost loved ones in the accident and our thanks to the staff of SNCF and the emergency services for their hard work to rescue the victims. Do we know if any rail staff were injured in this accident?

[Fat Controller]

The French press seem to have got bored with this, so there hasn't been much over the last week. One thing that has come up is that it is possible that the bolts recovered from near the fishplate that was the direct cause were of the wrong type, and only three have been recovered. Here's a link to one article about it:-

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2013/07/19/01016-20130719ARTFIG00353-bretigny-des-boulons-qui-sement-la-confusion.php

whilst here's another link, with photos of the damaged rails:-

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2013/07/14/01016-20130714ARTFIG00095-bretigny-les-photos-des-rails-endommages.php

Astonishingly, given the damage to the coaches which derailed, only one fatality was on the train itself; the others were all on the platform.

[mikeharvey22]

The French press seem to have got bored with this, so there hasn't been much over the last week. One thing that has come up is that it is possible that the bolts recovered from near the fishplate that was the direct cause were of the wrong type, and only three have been recovered. Here's a link to one article about it:-

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2013/07/19/01016-20130719ARTFIG00353-bretigny-des-boulons-qui-sement-la-confusion.php

whilst here's another link, with photos of the damaged rails:-

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2013/07/14/01016-20130714ARTFIG00095-bretigny-les-photos-des-rails-endommages.php

Astonishingly, given the damage to the coaches which derailed, only one fatality was on the train itself; the others were all on the platform.

Interesting about the missing bolt. Has a feel of Potters Bar about it.

 

With most of the deaths being people waiting on the platforms there are now some folk asking for trains to slow down when passing through stations. Announcements of trains approaching seem to be an adequate counter, but there is always the headset user, deaf person, or mobile phone user who will miss these.

 

Mike

[Fat Controller]

Interesting about the missing bolt. Has a feel of Potters Bar about it.

 

With most of the deaths being people waiting on the platforms there are now some folk asking for trains to slow down when passing through stations. Announcements of trains approaching seem to be an adequate counter, but there is always the headset user, deaf person, or mobile phone user who will miss these.

 

Mike

The thing is that the train wasn't on a platform road until it split; it was on one of the two through roads, so its passage wouldn't even have been merited one of the 'This train does not stop here; please stand back from the platform edge'. announcements.

On the same day that this accident occurred,  a low-loader blew a tyre on an autoroute in south-western France, crossing the central reservation, and hitting a people-carrier. Five people died, but it never rated more than a single mention in the regional press.

[Gary H]

We were shown the pictures of the fishplates from this derailment at work a few days ago, but did you also notice the broken rail from the same joint with its star cracks originating from around the bolt holes plus the collapsed rail head?

Those don't happen over night, they take weeks and months to propagate.

Why didn't ultrasonic testing pick this up?

The fishplated joint is very close to the obtuse crossing of the slip or diamond which is also unusual in my experience. The bolts used are what we refer to in the UK as 'black bolts'. they can only be tightened to 300 lb's feet and are normally used in plain line. Usually in fitting work, high tensile bolts will used which are much bigger and stronger!

The bolts have also been loose for a period of time before the derailment judging from the shiny holes on the plates! The fishing surfaces of the rails are also shiny indicating that the plates were rattling around for some time before they came off.

 

A very poor show of maintenance AND inspection in my eyes.

[Andy Hayter]

Pretty much as expected the inquiry has found deficient maintenance by RFF to be the cause.

 

http://actu.orange.fr/france/accident-de-train-de-bretigny-l-enquete-confirme-des-defauts-de-maintenance-francetv-info_2764286.html