Austerity Brown (WW2) - Branding/Logos

[M.I.B]

What sort of branding/logos did "Austerity" brown coaching stock carry during and after WW2?

 

Thanks.

[Miss Prism]

A picture in the Michael Harris book shows 'G W R' at the waist (just below the 3/4" orange lining) with the coat of arms beneath it. They are centred on the coach. The insignia are those used pre-1934.

[M.I.B]

Thank you very much.

[Castle]

Hi M.I.B.,

 

They looked very much like this:

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/coaches/7313/7313.html

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[M.I.B]

Many thanks Castle.  Photo comes across like it's painted in crimson lake - but it could be the screen at my end.  The orange lining is very clear.

[SteveBedding]

Hi M.I.B.

 

Belated answer to your question on the Austerity livery; the picture of the carriage at Didcot is a good illustration.  My understanding is that the colour was a reddish brown (not an all over chocolate brown as is often assumed.  I've looked back through all my references and actually found that the most concise description comes from the gwr.org.uk site (quoted below):

 

"As with locos, the roundel ceased to be used from 1942.

 

In 1942, as a wartime economy measure, stock requiring repainting was painted in an all-over reddish-brown, with a single ¾" orange line at the waist. 'G W R' (in pre-1934 lettering style) was applied below the orange line, with the coat of arms below the 'G W R'. With repainting of stock being a low priority at the time, the number of vehicles appearing in the reddish-brown livery was probably very few. Roofs were painted dark grey.

 

In 1943, the company insignia was applied below the waistline, being the coat of arms flanked by 'GREAT' and 'WESTERN', with the lettering, along with the class designations on doors and coach numbers, in a sans-serif font. At some time after 1943, normal brown and cream application was resumed, although roofs continued to be painted dark grey. Double waist lining was applied to principal and/or new coaches, while lesser coaches received just a single line."

 

The only note I'd add is that whilst the description above is for an all-over colour - the ends remained in black.

 

For non-passenger coaching stock, they would have remained in the original brown in the main as any repainting would have been such a low priority.

 

Depending on the precise time you're modelling, there are a number of options/permutation what can be shown:

 

• Up to early 1942
  • Chocolate & cream with white roof's (ie 1934 roundel livery not yet changed),
  • Chocolate & cream with dark grey roof's (1934 livery with superficial change),
• Mid-Late 1942
  • Chocolate & cream with dark grey roof's (GWR over Crest, with single orange line)

  • Reddish-brown with dark grey roof's (GWR over Crest, with single orange line)

 

• Late 1943 onwards
  • Chocolate & cream with dark grey roof's ('Great - Crest - Western' with orange line)
  • ...gradual return to full Chocolate & Cream with 'traditional' gold lining...

Hope that this is of some help?

 

Cheers

 

[gwrrob]

Thanks Steve.This topic was also discussed here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/26195-gwr-brown-livery/ when I wanted to paint a K40 model of mine.Never did get to it due to the uncertainty of the brown needed.Even the countries top pro painters can't help.All over chocolate would be easier.

[Miss Prism]

The only note I'd add is that whilst the description above is for an all-over colour - the ends remained in black.

Yes, sorry for the sloppy wording, the 'all-over' phrasing was meant to be for the sides only. Correction in progress.

 

 

 

 

[SteveBedding]

As to how to represent this colour I'm no expert (and pc screen colours are famously unreliable) but I would think a good starting point would be either Humbrol 100 (Red Brown) or a blend or Revell 136 (Carme Red) and Revell 137 (Redish Brown).

 

The Humbrol colour appears to be only avalailable as a Matt Enamel (the classic little tins) but the Revell colours are available in both Enamel and Acrylic, though likewise appear to be Matt only.  Of course there are other suppliers, such as Precision Paints, but without a visible chart it's hard to see what whould give a fair representation...

 

If anyone has any more suggestions about these colours, I would also be greatly interested as my modelling period falls between mid-1942 to 1947...

 

Cheers

[bluebottle]

Oh - excuse me; just browsing, and thought that this topic title might refer to a 1940s landscape gardener offering cut-price basic jobs. As you were.

[M.I.B]

Thanks for the updates.

 

I was thinking along the lines of Humbrol 100 or red lead with some black in it.

[Miss Prism]

A starter for ten:

 

[gwrrob]

A starter for ten:

 

gwr-red-brown.png

 

Any more info please Miss P

[Miss Prism]

Any more info please Miss P

 

It is a pure guess on my part. A point is quickly reached where using words to describe colour becomes a bit silly, particularly in the red-oxide area, on which so many prototype shades were based, so it was merely a suggestion to see what other people felt about it. Btw, it's R136 G67 B55 for anyone who wants to plug those values into a colour chart to play around with for themselves. As usual, please note your monitor will affect the representation, with modern LCD screens showing it considerably lighter than on an old-fashioned CRT.

[gwrrob]

Following clarification from John Lewis on the GWR e-list he tells me

 

'The majority seem to have been chocolate brown, only a few are noted as
being red-brown. I think they stopped recording this information during
1942/3. I have not seen the instruction, but it must have been issued in
the earlyish 1930s and apparently read something like "The Records
Section are to be informed of all coaching stock vehicles painted
brown." because there are 'Painted brown' dates against many siphons and
horseboxes which should have been painted brown anyway. Just a few are
noted as "Painted red brown" and a date.'

 

So although the Didcot example is correct not many would have been painted thus.

[M.I.B]

So the remainder of Austerity paint jobs were just "chocolate all over" (with orange band)?

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

The guys in the C&W department at Didcot think that the livery was just a way of extending the amount of chocolate brown paint when stocks ran low by the addition of red oxide so that is where I would start mixing my paints... It might also explain why only a few coaches were painted in this livery.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[M.I.B]

Settled.

 

I have a K40 and a K42 to do.  One will be red brown and the other will be all over chocolate.

 

Thanks for your help.

[M.I.B]

Holts Triumph Russet Brown is noticably more  orange than the Halfords offering.  The Halfords Triumph Russet Brown works for GW Chocolate if you can find any at your local Halfords. 

 

Now that I have located spray matt varnish which works with car paints, I thought I would test out the Holts offering on top of some red oxide coloured primer.  The result is a pleasing GW Austerity Brown in a rattle can!