Retro-Fitting Sprung Buffers

[hartleymartin]

Do any of you have any ideas/suggestions on how to retro-fit sprung buffers to a ready-built model?

 

I acquired an 0-4-0 14" Barclay built from the Tower Models whitemetal kit. It is well built, though I think I'll strip the paint job and give it a re-spray, but it was built with the supplied unsprung buffers. I would like to fit sprung buffers to the model.

 

The model appears to have been glued together with 5-minute epoxy. Is it possible that when applying the paint stripper that it would also dissolve the glue?

*EDIT*

 

This topic was originally just about replacing the solid buffers on my 0-4-0 Tower Models. However, it is developing into something of an account of my modifications, which have gone much further beyond just dealing with the buffers!

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

I asked a question about paint stripper some weeks ago and was told that Nitromoors dissolves epoxy.

 

Nothing to lose by giving your paint stripper of choice a go - if it doesn't work you'll still be in the same position anyway ?

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I would like to fit sprung buffers to the model."

 

Martin, I assume that you'd rather strip the paint but not unglue the whole model?  There have been postings elsewhere on RMWeb (I leave you to search) about stripping paint without attacking glue and plastics but, to remove the rigid buffers from the buffer planks, I would soak little wodges of cotton wool in Nitromoors and pack them around each buffers at the join (both front and back of the buffer planks, if you can), wrap the whole (model) in cling film and leave it for a day.  When the day is up, remove the cling film and wodges, clean up and have a tentative twiddle of the buffers; if there is no joy, repeat the Nitromoors wodges exercise until they do come loose.  It's always worked for me - eventually.

 

David

[hartleymartin]

I had a chat with a friend at a hobby shop today. He says that paint stripper would turn my loco into a pile of parts again, assuming that it is indeed assembled by epoxy resin glue. This might not be such a bad thing, as the chassis is running just fine and this would only require a partial disassemble to successfully re-paint it.

I'll have a think about it. I might just touch up the paint job rather than re-do it completely and live with the unsprung buffers. Nearly all my rolling stock has sprung buffers anyway.

[hartleymartin]

A little investigating has found that the body is made in three major sub-assemblies held together with screws. The footplate, cab and boiler/tank are three separate components. Good thing too, because there would have been no other way of getting the DCC chip in and out of the boiler through the hole in the footplate for the motor, which sits inside the firebox.

 

This could be a real blessing as I could dunk the three separate components into strippers, and would only have a small job in re-assembling them. I might also look into a new cab. The original whitemetal one is very thick... in fact the sides are 5 scale inches thick! The removable cab has given me some ideas. I could potentially have different cabs to make it appear that I have two slightly different barclays. The deception would work well if I only have numbers on the cab sides, but name-plates on the tank sides would be a no-no. The steps are also very chunky, and could probably be replaced with ones made in brass.

 

I've also discovered that the builder halved rather than quartered the wheels, so that will have to be corrected. Having the wheelsets off will give me an opportunity to re-paint the chassis.

[Giles]

Personally, I'm not a tremendous fan of sprung buffers...... nice buffers - absolutely.... but either they don't compress, or they do, and ping your wagons a foot away when shunting.... 

 

The Lionheart wagons I've got were a b*****r for this, as they are so free-running as well. In the end I stuck blutack behind the buffers to stop them.

As far as whitemetal loco buffers are concerned, as long as they are good castings, I fettle them up nicely, and then polish the heads up with T Cut or similar, and they end up looking much better than 'proper' sprung buffers, and they don't mess you about when shunting. No one has ever noticed in all these years.....

 

(it was the video of The End of the Line that really brought home the wagon buffer problem to me, with the wagons bouncing behind the Pug. Cured with BluTack)

[Donw]

I try to arrange buffers so the springing is a soft as possible eliminates the springing away but allows the buffer to compress when going round the corners (as opposed to proper curves) that we are sometimes forced to use.

Don

[ozzyo]

If you still want to strip the paint and not the 'glue' try coustic soda.

[hartleymartin]

I was just doing a little digging on the history of the design. Whilst I cannot confirm that it is indeed the 14" variety, it would appear that the locomotive known as "Nora" at the Big Pit mining Museum in Wales was on the earliest of this type, built in 1912 (or 1919/1920 by some sources) and differs mainly in the shape of the cab sidesheets and the brake shoes are on the rear of the wheels. This design was still being made new in the late 1950's (latest I've seen is about 1959 or 1961)

 

Perhaps I'll make a new cab in the older style.

[hartleymartin]

So the footplate assembly is now sitting in a tray of mineral turpentine. I think the paint is humbrol or a similar enamel, so this should simple dissolve the paint. It will probably dissolve the glue as well, but I am not worried by this. I'll be purchasing replacement buffers during the week. I have also noticed that the person who built the model didn't remove some flash and casting sprues properly, so I'll be using this as an opportunity to clean up the model and improve the finish.

I've ordered a couple of the Slater's allen wrenches for their wheelsets so that I can correct the wheel phase problem. I've recently had some good experiences with Tamiya's spray and tinned enamels, so I think I'll give those a try when re-painting the model.

[ozzyo]

Hello Martin,

 

you should have just gone to your local hardware store and bought some 0.05" Allen keys! Slater's love to say 1.27mm to make it sound an unusual size.

 

OzzyO.

 

EDIT. to correct size.

[hartleymartin]

Not sure if my local hardware store would carry them, and being in Australia they would probably be all in metric sizes these days. Whilst I was at it, to make up the minimum 10 pounds spend, I ordered some brass door handles which I will use on my 4-wheel coach project.

[hartleymartin]

I partly disassembled the model and cleaned up the castings as I could, removing any visible moulding lines and touching up the paint job. Using Humbrol Matt Black no. 33, the appearance of the footplate is remarkably improved. I also re-painted the cab roof in matt black, and painted up the frames in the same. I touched up the red buffer beams and then weathered them with a very thin wash of matt black. I have not really done much to the main colour (green) but a light touch-up and then some weathering will probably suffice.

 

The model looks so much better now, that I don't want to go to the hassles of stripping, priming and repainting the model. As such I won't be replacing the dummy buffers with sprung units, although I may file off the buffer heads and replace them with brass tacks.

 

I had wanted to replace the cab with one made in brass. but I have found that the weight of the cab helps to balance the model. I may replace the cab at a later date, but I would have to find a way of stuffing a whole pile of lead weight, otherwise the loco will be front-heavy. I might just add some cab figurines and this will hopefully distract the eye from realising that the cab sidesheets are a scale 5" thick! I'll also have figure out a better way of attaching the cab, as the screws holding it on were visible from the side...

 

Sadly, my phone fell 18" off the coffee table and is away for repairs, so it'll be a couple of weeks before I can post any pictures.

[Guest Isambarduk]

" ...although I may file off the buffer heads and replace them with brass tacks."

 

If you pm me with what you want (scan a dimensioned sketch), I can make some heads/shanks for you that will be a better shape than brass tacks - and I can do them in steel, if you wish.

 

Shame about your phone, I'd have liked to see pictures.

 

David

[hartleymartin]

I've re-discovered that I have a digital camera, so I will probably make use of that in the near future. Just have to find the battery charger...

The original paint job wasn't particularly good. The original owner had attempted to do the edges of the footplate in green. It was uneven in it's thickness and colour and just looked bad. I cleaned up the casting, removing most of this area of paint and just repainted the footplate in matt black. Much better! I then touched up the buffer beams in a red that was actually red and not a confused orange and then gave it a wash of matt black to weather it. More matt black for the smoke-box door and the cab roof and the whole job looked much more respectable. I think a good weathering will probably make the remaining green paint job look decent enough.

I like it, but photographs are always so very cruel at showing up imperfections, so I generally avoid examining too many photos of my models.

[hartleymartin]

Packet from Slaters came the other day. Fixed the wheel-phase problem and fitted new coupling hooks. The originals were not too bad, but I damaged one of them so I decided to make the little upgrade. The hooks were originally intended for the 4-wheel coach!

I had decided to fit a couple of rails across the bottom of the frames. Essentially, these were attached to the frames of some industrial locomotives to prevent the locomotive from toppling over in case of derailment. The locomotive would fall a few inches and hopefully remain upright, resting on the track. It also make work to re-rail the locomotive much easier when it did happen. The "rails" will have to be sourced from plastruct or evergreen (I knew I forgot something when I passed through the hobby shop this afternoon!) They have to be plastic to prevent short-circuits. I intend on going to DCC at a later stage, but on a small shunting layout with "one engine in steam" it isn't worth it unless I go to the extent of fitting DCC sound, and this is beyond my budget.

 

I've seen this done at a narrow-gauge railway museum. I don't know how common it was on standard gauge or how common it was generally, but I like it, so my locomotive will have it!

[avonside1563]

Here's a link to a photo of the locos at Castle Donnington Power Station which had beams fitted in place of the rail guards as you described above.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5769080729/

 

When we had one of these at Foxfield many years ago we had to remove the beams as they fouled our level crossing!

[Guest Isambarduk]

GWR No.1 Fowler 0-4-0DM also had them, so they appear on the imminent Ixion Fowler. See:

 

www.ixionmodels.com/CIMG0229%20(Small).JPG

 

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hartleymartin]

Here's a link to a photo of the locos at Castle Donnington Power Station which had beams fitted in place of the rail guards as you described above.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5769080729/

 

When we had one of these at Foxfield many years ago we had to remove the beams as they fouled our level crossing!

 

Would you happen to know roughly how long these beams were? I'm inclined to think that they should be about a foot longer than gauge.

 

GWR No.1 Fowler 0-4-0DM also had them, so they appear on the imminent Ixion Fowler. See:

 

www.ixionmodels.com/CIMG0229%20(Small).JPG

 

 

David

That Fowler diesel is looking good. I don't know what it is, but I seem to like little quirky diesels with outside cranks. I bought a pre-loved Bachmann On30 Gas-Mechanical loco the other day. Most likely give it two bodies - modify the Bachmann body into something more 7mm and Anglicised and then a De-Winton vertical boiler loco body.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"That Fowler diesel is looking good. I don't know what it is, ..."

 

It is GWR No.1  See here: www.ixionmodels.com/GWR%20Fowler%20Diesel.jpg

 

From the caption on the Ixion website:

 

"The model represents the solitary example that was built by Fowler for the Great Western Railway in 1933. It was given the running number “1” and was powered by a six-cylinder 70HP diesel engine with an ancillary petrol-powered starting motor. The locomotive was sold to George Cohen, Sons & Co Ltd of Leeds in 1940 and was later passed on to the Ministry of Supply.

 

"The locomotive was built to a generic design that was in production from the late 1920s until the 1950s. Widely used by industry, the wheelbase was common, but a wide variety of engines and transmissions were used to suit buyer’s specific requirements resulting in many detail differences. The London Midland & Scottish Railway employed a similar locomotive numbered “2” which was in use from 1935 until 1962.

 

"The model will be available in GWR lined green as above, and also painted, but unlettered and unlined for industrial use.

 

"Several examples of the class have survived into preservation in the UK."

 

Actually, LMS No.2 is only superficially similar to GWR No.1 - as I found out when I came to build mine!

 

Captioned photos of my 7mm model of LMS No. 2 and official photographs of both sides at: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/LMS_Fowler.htm

 

David

[hartleymartin]

Personally, I'm not a tremendous fan of sprung buffers...... nice buffers - absolutely.... but either they don't compress, or they do, and ping your wagons a foot away when shunting.... 

 

The Lionheart wagons I've got were a b*****r for this, as they are so free-running as well. In the end I stuck blutack behind the buffers to stop them.

As far as whitemetal loco buffers are concerned, as long as they are good castings, I fettle them up nicely, and then polish the heads up with T Cut or similar, and they end up looking much better than 'proper' sprung buffers, and they don't mess you about when shunting. No one has ever noticed in all these years.....

 

(it was the video of The End of the Line that really brought home the wagon buffer problem to me, with the wagons bouncing behind the Pug. Cured with BluTack)

 

I've watched "The End of the Line" on YouTube and bought a magazine with the article. A fantastic little layout! I've decided to stick with the solid buffers as it has proven to be too much of a nuisance to remove them anyway. The buffer heads on the original castings leave a little to be desired, and the plan at the moment is to file them off and replace them wish brass drawing pins (we call them "thumb-tacks" here in Australia) which will give me slightly larger buffer heads that I will want for my shunting layout.

 

In further news, I've chopped off the back of the cab! I decided that I didn't like the original cab backsheet. The windows are too small in my opinion. I reckon I'll add a locomotive crew and a few extra details into the cab (bucket, shelf, toolbox, cab-light, gauges, etc.) I was rather inspired by this topic on the same kit: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65805-tower-models-14-barclay-0-4-0st/

 

I've also discovered that the bloke who sold it to me (it was a built-up kit, which I'm now modifying) included a Loksound 3.5 decoder and a small speaker! I have no idea whether or not it works, but I shall look into the possibility of getting it going in the future as most of my friends operate DCC layouts. I imagine that I'll have to drill out the chimney and perhaps a few holes in the bottom of the boiler. Unfortunately, the location of the motor prevents any flickering firebox unless I can find a way of squeezing in some tiny LEDs. Anyway, I imagine that whilst shunting the firebox door would have normally been closed.

 

Yet another aspect of the model I've been looking at is the motor and gears. There's no gear-box as such. The motor is screwed to the U-channel chassis via a pair of slots which allow adjustment of the mesh. Elegantly simple... it works! The kit is supplied with a 40:1 gearset. With the 3'7" wheels, this makes for a theoretical top-speed of 25 scale miles per hour. I'm wondering if a 54:1 gearset (Theoretical top speed of 18.5 miles per hour) would improve the slow-speed performance, as this will be primarily a shunting locomotive. I don't know if this will require moving the motor much further back, as it would only have a couple of mm leeway as it is.

[hartleymartin]

Waiting for my phone to be repaired so I can supply pictures of my modelling work online again.

 

I've built up a replacement cab backsheet using 0.4mm brass sheet and 2mm brass angle. inside the angle I have attached 0.8mm and 0.5mm wires which go into locating holes and hold the backsheet in place. The front part of the cab is held to the footplate with two screws, and when these are tightened the backsheet doesn't move. The only thing missing is the handbrake, but I destroyed the original trying to remove it from the whitemetal original backsheet. Whole thing was assembled using zap-a-gap medium CA glue.

 

The bright idea here, was to put figurines into the cab and other various detail items, hopefully disguising the fact that the cab sidesheets are a scale 5 inches thick (thicker than armour plating!) The 0.4mm thick backsheet will them hopefully play a mind-trick, giving the impression that it is a fine etched-brass cab.

[Donw]

For really good slow running I would replace the motor with an ABC motor gearbox but at about £80 when I last bought one it may be more than you want to spend. At one exhibition my friend Steve turned up with one of those diseasel things the motor had been arranged to drive the jackshaft with power transmitted by the coupling rods.

Don

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

In some ways I wish I had gone for some sprung buffers on my one of these. However with how close the steps are to the back of the buffers I am not sure how easy it would be to make the buffers move without replacing the steps with a thinner brass assembly.

 

I hadn't considered cutting the cab back down, but that does sound interesting.

 

All the best

 

Keith

[hartleymartin]

If you're building one, I would recommend replacing the supplied steps with ones made from brass sheet, or at least filing down the steps as they are far too chunky. I wasn't all together happy with the coupling hooks either so I replaced them with cast brass ones from slaters.