Class91query

[7013]

A friend of mine bought a CL 91 to our club last night, which was in need of some TLC. He eventually got it going but we found a small switch on the roof by the pantograph. It was attached to a small wire inside with some contacts. However it was not connected to anything else. Could anyone enlighten me as to what this was for?

[Fat Controller]

Sounds as though someone thought they might make it pick-up from the knitting..I don't think it was a Hornby fitment.

[7013]

It definitely looked like part of the model and not a 'bash' , my original thought was that it may be to connect the pantograph, but they were plastic (I think.), very strange.

[BR(S)]

If I remember correctly, some Hornby AC locos came with metal pantographs and had the switch fitted to allow the loco to pick-up from the overheads.  Others had plastic pantographs and the switch wasn't fitted. 

 

This confirms the 91s that had working pantographs: http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=772

[Traksy]

You can draw power from your catenary instead of the rails if you flip the switch. The only Hornby electric with plastic pantographs available now is the Class 92 (which you can still replace with metal ones). I am not sure what pantos the 87 will come with.

[Ian Fisher]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71994-4mm-em-class-90-build/page-2

 

Shows in post 27 how easy it is to get rid.

 

The 86, 90 and 91 all featured this wonderful post zero1 pre dcc feature.

 

Ian

[7013]

Thanks gentlemen I think that solves the mystery I will pass the info on

[Electrostar]

I remember the original model 91001 was manufactured with the metal pantograph and switch but sadly not the large bodyside numbers near the front cab of the real thing or the Swallow nameplate. If I remember correctly train set versions of the 91 were the first to appear with plastic pantographs (and black painted skirts too).

[SGJ]

I remember the original model 91001 was manufactured with the metal pantograph and switch but sadly not the large bodyside numbers near the front cab of the real thing or the Swallow nameplate. If I remember correctly train set versions of the 91 were the first to appear with plastic pantographs (and black painted skirts too).

When the class 91001 TO 91010 were made they didnt have large numbers on the bottom of the front cab, this was a later addition That started from 91011 to 91031, then the first batch of 91s received them ( after 91031 was made )

 

91009

 

SGJ

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72294-armley-moor-layout/

[SGJ]

This is 91017 out of the second batch of 91s with the large number bellow the front cab, Brand new out of Crewe works with a class 90

 

 

SGJ

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72294-armley-moor-layout/

 

[Electrostar]

Ok but I seem to remember that by the time the much-delayed Hornby 91 finally appeared the real thing had gained Swallow nameplates and I thought big numbers. Admittedly it was sometime around 1990 so my memory could be playing tricks. I just remember being disappointed it looked different than the photos in Rail and Motive Power Monthly at the time. I was also disappointed it didn't come with a front coupling meaning I couldn't haul anything blunt-end first!

[Electrostar]

I remember the catalogue pre-production models looking slightly different. This site shows the 1989 version without yellow ends and the 1990 version with large clear-plastic wraparound lights. I thought one of the catalogue a showed the 91 in the proposed Electra livery too but again the mind might be playing tricks.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=772

 

Sorry, 1988 version.

[Traksy]

I was also disappointed it didn't come with a front coupling meaning I couldn't haul anything blunt-end first!

 

Well, it doesn't matter now since 23 years later Hornby have done so much to improve their class 91.....

[valeofyork]

Well, it doesn't matter now since 23 years later Hornby have done so much to improve their class 91.....

 

The Flying Scotsman one (and the commissioned 91110) seem to have become a myth. About a year late now and counting, isn't it? (and it's not as if they are going to be retooled so this isn't due to major alterations)

[JaymzHatstand]

As far as I'm aware, 91110 will feature a new DCC ready chassis, but other than that I don't think there's any major change. I would imagine that the train pack version will have this too. I could be wrong of course as I'm just making guesses based on what I've read on other threads.

 

Cheers

 

J

[valeofyork]

As far as I'm aware, 91110 will feature a new DCC ready chassis, but other than that I don't think there's any major change. I would imagine that the train pack version will have this too. I could be wrong of course as I'm just making guesses based on what I've read on other threads.

 

Cheers

 

 

Not really a major change though, is it? It'll just be the new cheapo motor bogie and wiring (as used in recent 86 / 87 / 90) with the chassis frame modified to suit.

[JaymzHatstand]

Not really a major change though, is it? It'll just be the new cheapo motor bogie and wiring (as used in recent 86 / 87 / 90) with the chassis frame modified to suit.

Not really, not much different to what has happened to a number of items in the RR range, which is where I think the 91 belongs now. Yes, you can upgrade it with various etched grills and such, but it really is showing its age now. If it been updated to include lighting, that would be a step in the right direction.

 

Cheers

 

J

[valeofyork]

Not really, not much different to what has happened to a number of items in the RR range, which is where I think the 91 belongs now. Yes, you can upgrade it with various etched grills and such, but it really is showing its age now. If it been updated to include lighting, that would be a step in the right direction.

 

Cheers

 

J

 

Some of the Railroad range - particularly the modified ex-Lima HST - are actually better than the 86 / 87 / 90 / 91, which are all in the main range. Hornby doesn't seem interested in AC electrics.

[SGJ]

Some of the Railroad range - particularly the modified ex-Lima HST - are actually better than the 86 / 87 / 90 / 91, which are all in the main range. Hornby doesn't seem interested in AC electrics.

I think the reason could be that no other company produces the models, so there isn't a financial reason to invest in re-vamping a model that will still sell for Hornby as it is.

SGJ

( hope that makes sense )

[Traksy]

I think the reason could be that no other company produces the models, so there isn't a financial reason to invest in re-vamping a model that will still sell for Hornby as it is.

SGJ

( hope that makes sense )

 

Not quite sure of this. Hornby is the only company producing class 67 and yet they updated it recently. And this is keeping in mind the old 67 was already a superior model to the 91.

[SGJ]

Not quite sure of this. Hornby is the only company producing class 67 and yet they updated it recently. And this is keeping in mind the old 67 was already a superior model to the 91.

Good point, It blows my theory out of the water.

SGJ

[Matabiau]

As much as I would like to see a revamped class 91 (and 90 for that) I doubt there is a big enough market for AC electrics in the £140 range for Hornby to invest in new tooling. Heljan had trouble shifting their 86s and the Bachmann 85 still hasn't sold out yet. The class 91 has only a limited livery range (unlike the class 90) so it doesn't offer the sort of return Hornby requires in the timescale they will be looking for. The current Hornby offering should be in the railroad range but I suspect they have trouble marketing AC electrics to the budget modeler.

I suspect the only chance for a revamped 91 is for a shop such as Hattons or Rails to commission one from Dapol or Bachmann.

[Traksy]

Heljan had trouble shifting their 86s and the Bachmann 85 still hasn't sold out yet.

 

That is correct but the 86 was not a very good model after all and if the 85 was such a bad seller Bachmann wouldn't introduce a new livery this year and yet they did.

Its mostly speculations when it comes to the exact numbers of sales but I highly doubt there is no market for a retooled say 90.

However in its current state the 91 has no business anywhere outside of Railroad.

[valeofyork]

I can certainly see that the market for AC electrics is more limited than for diesels, and of these the 87 and 91 are the most limited both in terms of geographical range and liveries. The 86 has been done by Heljan, so the 90 would seem the best bet if Hornby ever do decide to retool one of the electrics - they work both passenger and freight trains; they have worked on pretty much all of the electrified mainlines at some point, and there is quite a wide range of possible liveries.

 

Perhaps they could a new 90 in conjunction with new Mk3 coaches, and do an HST variant of the coaches at the same time (the excellent new-style Hornby power cars really show up how basic a model the current Mk3 is).

[Matabiau]

That is correct but the 86 was not a very good model after all and if the 85 was such a bad seller Bachmann wouldn't introduce a new livery this year and yet they did.

Its mostly speculations when it comes to the exact numbers of sales but I highly doubt there is no market for a retooled say 90.

However in its current state the 91 has no business anywhere outside of Railroad.

I quite agree, I believe the argument regarding the market for AC locomotives (and EMUs) is only part of a more complex decision making process. Hornby appear less daring in their new models than Bachmann, and far less than Heljan. Recently Hornby's new toolings seem to sell out soon after delivery from China, sometimes before. While this is good news for their cashflow it does make them less prepared to take a chance on a riskier choice that may hang around in their warehouse for a few months.