Bluebell railway extension

[The Evil Bus Driver]

The B.R. website appears to be having a few technical difficulties. Maybe they're updating it? From what I red spoil trains will run as and when funds are available. Ballast has now reached a few feet onto the land across the viaduct. Not sure whether track laying will happen after ballast reaches the tip or if the track will be laid whilst the ballast is being laid further down the line. The rails for the East Grinstead/viaduct area are stacked up in the EG compound awaiting use, as are the sleepers. It does appear to be flat bottom rail so much of what's left will probably have concrete sleepers. Nothing much to report since January 28th. I'm sure once track is laid it'll be put on the website.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

 

Also if anyone is interested, to cope with the additional demand at the Ardingly depot, reduce congestion and delays at Haywards Heath, and make it easier to access Ardingly, Network Rail have decided to re-route the Ardingly stone train via the West Coastway (too/from Westbury Yard) after the May 2010 timetable change.

 

Now that will be interesting. I shall be watching out for the trains after May, Methinks. Even if they are GM haulage...

[Mr Brunel]

Track laying across the viaduct's commenced :

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/ext/extprog.html

[Michael Delamar]

excellent!

 

glad to see the track on the viaduct!

 

Mike

 

 

[WR Tim]

If the connection to Haywards Heath via Ardingly was made but not for use by the Bluebell's passenger services (at least at this stage) they would have a mainline connection at each end. Would they be able to make decent second income from track access charges for passenger/freight trains during scheduled engineering works on the Brighton line (planned to avoid steam operating days/times) or would the 25mph speed limit and single line make it impractical?

[Michael Delamar]

any more updates?

 

has the track got any further? how are they getting on with the tunnel relaying

 

quite hard finding regular updates

 

Mike

[The Evil Bus Driver]

any more updates?

 

has the track got any further? how are they getting on with the tunnel relaying

 

quite hard finding regular updates

 

Mike

 

None as yet. I seems that the track gang have been seconded onto the track through the tunnel but I am sure there will be something to say once the track reaches the other side of the viaduct.

[Neal Ball]

If the connection to Haywards Heath via Ardingly was made but not for use by the Bluebell's passenger services (at least at this stage) they would have a mainline connection at each end. Would they be able to make decent second income from track access charges for passenger/freight trains during scheduled engineering works on the Brighton line (planned to avoid steam operating days/times) or would the 25mph speed limit and single line make it impractical?

 

Too far in the future to be certain. - Freight probably, Passenger unlikely.

[gc4946]

I'm assuming track will be relaid from East Grinstead sometime during the spring.

This then begs the question, when will it reopen? If fundraising is successful then the tip and its contents can be excavated quickly by train to Calvert and the cutting stabilised.

However this still means the track has got be to be laid, ballasted and made fit for passenger use, signalling installed and the platform, track and building with access completed at East Grinstead. The Railway Inspectorate then has to check to see if it's all fit to their standards.

If the tip can be excavated quickly then I can see it opening very late this year, most appropriately for its 50th anniversary.

However I can see things being delayed and it may not reopen until next April at the earliest, assuming all goes to plan, or if the money is slow to come in, not until 2012.

[The Stationmaster]

If the connection to Haywards Heath via Ardingly was made but not for use by the Bluebell's passenger services (at least at this stage) they would have a mainline connection at each end. Would they be able to make decent second income from track access charges for passenger/freight trains during scheduled engineering works on the Brighton line (planned to avoid steam operating days/times) or would the 25mph speed limit and single line make it impractical?

 

I think Mr Hanson might want a fair bit of compensation for having a railway right through the middle of his depot and would the Bluebell really fancy having part of their route electrified (which it, and elsewhere, would have to be done to allow passenger train diversions).

[Burkitt]

I think Mr Hanson might want a fair bit of compensation for having a railway right through the middle of his depot

 

From a quick look at Google maps, the area around the aggregates depot looks to be empty fields, so it might be possible to divert the Bluebell around it and rejoin the existing line on the other side.

 

Paul

[Bloodnok]

I think Mr Hanson might want a fair bit of compensation for having a railway right through the middle of his depot

 

Entirely probable - but also avoidable if it came to it. He may also not be entirely pleased if some random preserved railway started "getting in the way" of his freight trains...

 

and would the Bluebell really fancy having part of their route electrified (which it, and elsewhere, would have to be done to allow passenger train diversions).

 

It's been talked about before - to run preserved SR EMUs. I believe there is some wish to re-create the scene with a connecting EMU service with the line towards Ardingly electrified, as has happened in the bluebell's earlier days (albeit the EMU was in BR ownership then, but still...).

 

However, I can't see any way in which 3rd rail DC electrification and preserved railway operations (particularly use of volunteer labour) could be brought together.

 

Given connections at both Ardingly and East Grinstead but without electrification, there's no way Southern would touch it as diversionary traffic, and freight, it'd probably be just as easy to adjust the schedule to avoid the work, rather than route round it.

 

However, what about normal scheduled freight? Tip trains will be originating on the bluebell and running out onto NR, so there's nothing to say that one couldn't be routed via the Bluebell, if there were two connections. If there was a traffic flow that needed to come this way, and a specific pinch point that this route avoided, then I could see a case for it. Unfortunately, there is incredible pressure at South Croydon too, where the East Grinstead line joins the mainline. I can't see a case where space could be found to bring freight through Croydon and onto the East Grinstead line, but it could not continue down the Brighton line further south...

[Ian J.]

What they really need to do is get the line extended southwards back to Lewes!

 

(and before anyone complains, I know that this is to all intents and purposes impossible!)

[Mighty]

From a quick look at Google maps, the area around the aggregates depot looks to be empty fields, so it might be possible to divert the Bluebell around it and rejoin the existing line on the other side.

 

Paul

 

Here's an interesting quote from the Bluebell website that shows that they have no intention of letting the opportunity to expand further, fail:

 

Ardingly Branch: A conceptual design for a replacement bridge had been produced and would be worked up for eventual submission for planning consent.

 

The link can be found on the BRPS section of the Bluebell website, here.

 

If the Bluebell are putting money together for the plans to build a bridge, it suggests that they really are serious about investing in this.

[Pinkmouse]

Saw this rather strange loco down there on Sunday. Can't work out where they store the coal and water though - is the tender under repair? ...

 

 

[Colin]

As it's got outside frames like the Dukedog, it might be Great Western.

[LH&JC]

As it's got outside frames like the Dukedog, it might be Great Western.

 

Nah it can't be, its not covered in brass & copper!

[45156]

I saw one of these once before but I can't quite place where - oh yes, it replaced the Caley built class 3Fs on pick up goods from Hurlford shed - so it might be a Scottish design.

 

Moving on to more constuctive comments, I think that running 3rd rail EMUs was debated on here before, and we sort of concluded that it was a bit of a non starter (or more than a bit). Heritage railways, members of the public behaving as though they have some sort of divine rights of trespass, and live rails energised at 750 volts about a foot off the ground do not make good bedfellows.

 

Good luck to the Bluebell - this extension has been long in its gestation, and deserves to come to fruition as quickly as it can - the Inberhorne Tip is still a challenge, but with determination and funds, it can become a cutting again.

[Southernman46]

Also, the Bluebell unlike NR does not have "grandfather" rights to lay exposed 750v conductor rails and would essentially be a "new" system required to meet all new standards for 3rd rail installation (like Docklands) - the rail would need to be shielded completely other than the contact surface, etc, etc .....likely to be prohibitively expensive and out of keeping with the historical theme.

 

I haven't said anything about the level of power required for 750v traction either because the Bluebell has shown itself to be an endlessly resourceful organisation and I doubt that this aspect would present too much of a challenge....

[Ian J.]

A thought: maybe instead of the Bluebell running an Ardingly line service as 3rd rail purely on their own, they could own and maintain the line in conjunction with Network Rail to full mainline standards, and then have a segregation with suitable fencing to prevent trespass to the third rail (which on the Ardingly section was originally open third rail anyway) and automatic locks on the doors of whatever stock is used to prevent idiots trying to leave the train while on the line?

 

As I said, just a thought.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

 

 

I haven't said anything about the level of power required for 750v traction either because the Bluebell has shown itself to be an endlessly resourceful organisation and I doubt that this aspect would present too much of a challenge....

 

 

Couple of BGs with fairground generators in them providing power through shoe gear and some kind of power hook up for the return. one each end of the line to accommodate voltage drop. Step-up transformers could get the current up to 5000 amps. I'm sure 750v wouldn't be needed for 25 mph though. Maybe 450v perhaps?

 

[phil-b259]

Here's an interesting quote from the Bluebell website that shows that they have no intention of letting the opportunity to expand further, fail:

 

 

 

The link can be found on the BRPS section of the Bluebell website, here.

 

If the Bluebell are putting money together for the plans to build a bridge, it suggests that they really are serious about investing in this.

 

Unfortunately this is not the case, at least for the foreseeable future. What has bought this development about is the requirement to find somewhere to dump the clay capping from imbhorne tip when excavation there re-starts. As with the previous phases, the inert spoil will be removed south to extend the Ardingly embankment. However to do this we require planning permission from the council, but what someone has realised is that if the planning application covers BOTH the extension to the embankment AND construction of a new bridge, then extending the embankment counts as starting work and thus new planning permission is not required at a future date should the Bluebell press ahead with the construction of said bridge. This is not a new technique; plenty of other rail projects including the likes of the East London line extension have taken this approach (the construction of the grade separated junction for the phase 2 extension to the south London line was completed purely so that work on phase 2 could officially have said to bee 'started'

[Michael Delamar]

some updates on the bluebell site, regarding an open day at the site..

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/ext/extprog.html

 

Mike

[Michael Delamar]

another update. they now have track across the viaduct...

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/ext/extprog.html

 

Mike

[Michael Delamar]

the trackwork has nearly reached hill place bridge http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wn-2010/hillpfm_br_derekh_8may10.jpg

 

Mike