EM Gauge in the Garden

[dessire_luvals]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm seriously looking at extending my shed based layout http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37186-barnstaple-junction-in-em-gauge/

 

Can anyone offer any experience of laying finescale track in the garden or point me at any resources that I could learn from?

 

Thanks

 

Russell

 

 

[RANGERS]

EM should be straightforward enough, OO garden layouts are relatively common and EM tolerances aren't too much more stringent. As the track lengths are usually longer than indoor layouts, consider the effects of expansion and contraction and make sure the base is solid enough to cope with variations in climate, marine ply with a good preservative would be my choice. Rail needs to resistant to corrosion so nickel or phosphor bronze. Stick with copper clad points and plastic based track and I wouldn't see any problems.

[dessire_luvals]

The plan would be for one big loop out and back to the shed so no requirement for any pointwork. I never seen anyone use C&L outdoors in either 00 or EM gauge so I guess the big question is one of fragility of the finer scale track rather than a particular gauge question.

[Enterprisingwestern]

I can't think of the name of the layout, but, many many years ago there was an EM gauge layout in an RM, and he had used Peco Streamline cut down the middle to give some robustness outside.

 

Mike.

[RANGERS]

SMP track might offer a slightly more robust option for track but the Peco idea might be even better, although it'll take a bit more to lay. Cutting down the middle and relaying sounds a bit tedious on a long run.

[dessire_luvals]

I can't think of the name of the layout, but, many many years ago there was an EM gauge layout in an RM, and he had used Peco Streamline cut down the middle to give some robustness outside.

 

Mike.

 

I do remember this layout and the approach, not one that I fancy though. I hadn't really thought to take a look at SMP, I have a few old lengths from many years ago so I'll take a look.

[coachmann]

Suck it and see, as they say. From what I've seen when ripping track up, the C+L takes some beating for strength so I would be inclined to lay a yard on a length of timber and leave it outside for the next 6 months or so to see how it goes on. Peco Steamline is proven but the wrong gauge, so if you experiment, let me know how you go on as I've got a garden section to build as well.... 

 

Your trackwork looks great.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Outdoor robustness is dependent on the UV stability of the sleeper base. Many formulations will rapidly embrittle if exposed to UV: Peco specifically use a formulation that remains tough. I would want to see how the sleeper base of any other track held up over a summer of direct sunlight before committing to using it outdoors.

 

This also gives the opportunity to see how the wildlife reacts. I had no trouble with OO in a town back garden over many years. Now with a garden bordered by mature oak woodland, the tree rats and corvids made short work of the short run I laid almost immediately on arrival, and I am consequently indoors.

[clecklewyke]

I asked a similar question on the Scalefour Soc Forum, although, obviously I would be using P4 track rather than EM. The general consensus was that I should be o.k. if I take care of the problems of corrosion, damp, rigidity and sunlight. The advice was:

 

Re corrosion - Use Nickel Silver rail

 

Re damp - encase in good wood and cover in roofing felt. (I do not expect the outside part of the layout to be scenic - just return curves to increase the width and length available in a garage or shed as I am about to sell our converted chapel and move to a smaller house, yet to be chosen.

 

Re rigidity - Use Exactoscale, rather than C&L track, as it has a thicker sleeper base. (No viagra jokes, please)

 

Re sunlight - paint the felt white to reduce heat build-up. This is possibly not applicable to you if you want your outside tracks to be visible but I would have thought that painting the sleepers should reduce the effects of UV..

 

The recommendations re track came from C&L themselves, so should be authentic.

 

I plan to make a small length, possibly a yard or so, and leave it in the garden to test this out.

 

I must confess that I had not thought of using Streamline with cut sleepers but the deeper rail section might be just what is needed - and no-one would ever see it! 

 

I will be very interested to see how you get on.

 

Ian

[hayfield]

If you wanted a thicker sleeper C&L supply Exactoscale sleeper base, the sleepers are 1.8mm thick and may be more substantial than C&L track 

[dessire_luvals]

Thanks Folks,

 

The Exactoscale option seems worthy of consideration.

 

Oh and thanks Coachmann for the compliment.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

You could insert copperclad sleepers (with or without etched chairs) into the formation every x number of sleepers?

-to add to strength if you thought it was necessary?

[dessire_luvals]

You could insert copperclad sleepers (with or without etched chairs) into the formation every x number of sleepers?

-to add to strength if you thought it was necessary?

 

 

That sounds like a good idea. probably need to make sure the copperclad sleepers aren't fixed down so as to allow some lateral movement due to expansion/contraction.

[t-b-g]

We have a layout in a shed, which experiences quite a lot of temperature variation, especially when sunlight shines in through the large windows all down one side. Some of our track (SMP EM gauge) has been permanently laid and ballasted with pva and some in the fiddle yard is pinned down as the arrangement there has not been finalised. Each length of track has got a pcb sleeper at each end.

 

We have found that the glued and ballasted track stays pretty much where it is, with just a slight expansion along the length of the rail in hot conditions. This is allowed for with a slightly bigger gap from one length to the next, and we have had no problems.

 

The pinned track with pcb has been a nightmare by comparison. unless every sleeper is pinned the track contorts into horrible snakes between the pins and if you have two pinned and soldered pcb sleppers and the rail wants to go somewhere it just goes sideways.

 

We have done some mods, including lots more pins and some expansion joints (almost like two point blades back to back, so they can slide along in the chairs) and this has helped but the lesson is that properly secured track will stay put and track only secured every few inches will cause problems. I remember one layout in the press where the track was pushed down into a thin layer of cement or suchlike and that was going nowhere.

 

Good luck!

 

Tony

[dessire_luvals]

 

The pinned track with pcb has been a nightmare by comparison. unless every sleeper is pinned the track contorts into horrible snakes between the pins and if you have two pinned and soldered pcb sleppers and the rail wants to go somewhere it just goes sideways.

This was probably my view, that fixing every few inches with no way to allow lateral expansion would mean the rails would have to bow outwards.

 

I'm thinking that the most likely approach is going to be to pin the sleeper base down every 2nd or 3rd sleeper and allow for some expansion at the end of every metre length of track. It may even be worth working with 1/2 metre lengths.