Wayne 37901 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well it's a bit late I know, but when nature calls... Just thought I'd have a browse on here and post this up before I forget. I'm looking for some information on TTAs working on flows from Grangemouth in the late 1980's/early 90's for a little project I have in the pipeline. In particular I'm after wagon numbers and types of flows they worked and to where, especially in shorter cuts on Speedlink trains. I've had a little search around but haven't come up with lots of useful stuff. Will be grateful if anyone out there in RMweb land can help. Kind regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hi Wayne, I cannot help with wagon numbers but I can suggest a book called Freight Only Volume 3: Wales & Scotland by Michael Rhodes & Paul Shannon printed in 1988. Inside there are examples of the freight working timetable for various areas in Scotland dated August 1988, the information also specifies if it is a 'block' oil working or speedlink. There are also various photographs which may be useful, examples: 37264 at Grangemouth with 6D21 Grangemouth-Mossend conveying TTA's and also PCA's and this is classed as a Speedlink service. 37114 at Lairg picking up TTA's for return to Grangemouth as part of a Speedlink service. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirey33 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm no expert but would imagine that there would have been loco fuel trip workings to the geographically closer depots (Haymarket/Eastfield/Craigentinny etc.) For the more distant depots (Inverness/Fort Bill/Ayr?) the tanks would be included in Speedlink wokings. I have a working timetable from that era, I'll have a look tonight and report back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The 1988 wtt suggests company train workings to both Prestwick and Carlisle area (Dalton?). I suspect that these were TEAs though rather than TTAs with the Prestwick train being aviation fuel i believe; not clear what the Carlisle train was. Additionally there was a well photographed Speedlink working on the HML which ran from Millerhill to Inverness and contained both BP fuel TTAs and LPG TTAs which I assume were ex-Grangemouth, amongst cement PCAs, containerised coal and UKF fertiliser vans. I also have pics of Speedlink workings over Forth Bridge which clearly contain BP TTA tanks amongst VDAs, VEAs, OBAs, china clay wagons. I would again assume that the source was Grangemouth - destination probably Aberdeen but may have been Dundee? Beyond this there were fuel wagons worked to depots but this moved to road I believe at some point for all bar the biggest depots. As someone else has suggested above, a copy of Rhodes and Shannon book on Scottish railfreight is a must - i got mine fo 1p on Amazon recently!! There are also myriad of picture books out there covering 80's and 90's with pics of speedlink workings across scotland - many containing BP TTAs! If you need references for these books or exact details on Working Timetables then let me know and I can dig out of the library. M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Thanks for all your responses so far folks, some interesting information is starting to come to light. Matt, does your 1988 WTT cover the Fife area by any chance? Looking through a few books and a dvd, this seems to have the most variety in speedlink traffic and was one potential area I was looking at for my project. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Just checked and my wtts are actually 86-87 & 89-90 rather than 88 as my memory suggested... And yes both cover fife area. Let me know what exactly you're looking for and I can have a look and get back to you (also which yr of interest). M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Thanks Matt, 89-90 is actually better. What I was looking for was any possible information if any, where the tanks might be going to and also whether there might be any other traffic apart from that serving the freight only branches in the area. The movement of LPG tanks is also of interest as I've seen in photo's just one or two in a train. Presumably bound for a small terminal or discharge at a yard into a road tanker. Hope that helps. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefredie Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Hi I enclose a photo taken in Carlisle of a tank train empty from Dalston to Grangemouth 22 July 1986 hope it will help you David Wexford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Wayne There would have trains from Grangemouth to Linkswood near Leuchars this is where jet fuel is unloaded for the RAF base the train still runs this is only Fife location that would have seen regular TTA'S. Not quite sure but there may have been the odd tank to Thorton for the depot there not sure if tanks ever went to Roysth or maybe Longannet some power stations down south had oil gen sets for start ups. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Thanks Matt, 89-90 is actually better. What I was looking for was any possible information if any, where the tanks might be going to and also whether there might be any other traffic apart from that serving the freight only branches in the area. The movement of LPG tanks is also of interest as I've seen in photo's just one or two in a train. Presumably bound for a small terminal or discharge at a yard into a road tanker. Hope that helps. Cheers The LPG went to Elgin; there was a terminal in the goods yard there. BP had a terminal at Lairg, one at Connel Ferry, and another at Riccarton. There were third-party terminals at various locations, including Fort William, Port Elphinstone, and Maxwelltown(Dumfries). I notice that Shell had a number of terminals around Scotland; as they didn't have any refineries that far north, I wonder if BP might have supplied them (this happened at a few refineries that I know of), or did they get product brought in by coastal ship? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I actually interned at Grangemouth refinery in 1997 and got shown around the road loading terminal - alas not rail. The deal at that time was that almost all of Scotland's fuel came from there irrespective of brand - if I recall correctly the exception was Jet. The loading gantry had 6 key slots and each tanker driver had their company key. Bp key would dose each road car with a full whack of bps fuel additive in addition to petrol load; shell key full whack of shell additive: Esso key full whack Esso additive; smaller brands got 10% bp additive and supermarkets no additive at all. From what I could tell, 6th key slot was spare. Whether something similar existed for rail loading I don't know? Esso also had rail terminals in Scotland but not aware of source- always suspected ex gmth but happy to be corrected. Terminals included Oban. There was certainly a train from Grangemouth to bishopbriggs which I believe was a shell terminal - 6n70 dep gmth 1351 in 1990 wtt. M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 You will find some of my photos here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=grangemouth although I expect there are others on the site as this only picks up the more recent scans which have the location in the file name. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Back to q in hand... From 1990 wtt 6l51 ran gmth to leuchars mod dep gmth 2236 mo coy train. Seems routed through Dundee on way there are 0122. Dep for gmth 0210 through lady bank, Kirkcaldy etc. as 6n54 6l49 gmth to linkswood dep gmth 0516 wfo coy train. Routed thru Dundee on way, arr 0843. Dep for gmth 1205 through lady bank etc. as 6n71 There are several slk services through fife but can't tell what carried from wtt Southbound: 6b59 sx 1525 Thornton to millerhill 6e89 sx 1420 Aberdeen gs to Tyne ny running thru Thornton 1738 Northbound: 6s63 mx 1753 Tyne ny to Dundee thru Thornton 0127 6s92 sx 1741 Belmont dy to Aberdeen gs thru Thornton 0425 6g43 sx 0703 millerhill to Thornton arr 0825 6g44 sx 1035 millerhill to Thornton arr 1200 The photo I referred to in previous post of a slk service over forth bridge was most likely Thornton bound / ex thornton as had a couple of Tullis Russell wagons in consist - this had a couple of bp TTAs in the rake. Can't recall year but was hauled by 26 in red stripe rf so must have been late 80s. Hope that helps, M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Good evening, There really is some useful stuff coming to light on this one. After a little search I've found a picture of what seems to be the 6B59 Thornton-Millerhill on Flikr, although it's a couple of years out of my era (89-91). http://www.flickr.com/photos/16359167@N07/8447025091/ No fuel TTAs but there are two Distillers MG CO2 tanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 HI All Thornton did take in TTAs for the depot as did Aberdeen and Inverness, Aberdeen also had an LPG terminal where the ASDA train goes now at Craiginches. Perth had a fuel terminal to the north of the Station and you used to see the odd TTA at the station for the locos. The Leuchars could be interesting as the base itself used to take in a mixture of TTA and TEA wagons, there was 1 x TEA then 3 X TTA in a consist. Leith docks could see trains also to the GATX terminal. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 After browsing a couple of videos I've come up with one TTA tank number, 66101. It looks like it could be a class A BPO wagon, although it's hard to tell under all the dirt and spills. It was in the consist of a Speedlink passing through Crianlarich behind large logo split box 37117. The search continues... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Does anyone know how to transfer this to railways of Scotland folder -some useful info emerging and should ensure doesn get lost in future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.