GLOSSY Hornby A4's ON GOING PROJECT. 4464,4468,4498, ETC CUSTOMISING THE Hornby MODEL

[DonnyRailMan]

What brand of paints have you been using Rob. 

[Rob Hayes]

What brand of paints have you been using Rob.

 

Humbrol gloss 35 acrylic spray, old type johnsons klear, humbrol acrylic rail blue with humbrol white added to match garter blue, humbrol satin 85 black with Windsor and Newton flow improver.

 

Staying with the humbrol spray with success requires alot if practice to familiarise yourself with how it performs differently and gives different effects / results during different conditions / distances and techniques. I really recommend hot weather for best results sadly that seems to have gone before I may get chance to finish these. It may cost but please practice first on stuff that does not matter.

 

The varnish is very "hot" chemically due to lack of pigments. You can worry much less about paint due to heavy pigment.

 

These are the best spray paints I have ever used.

 

I spray my aircraft models with them. I discovered them when my airbrush packed up and I've not bought another since using these methods.

 

Cheers Rob

[Rob Hayes]

What brand of paints have you been using Rob.

 

Humbrol gloss 35 acrylic spray, old type johnsons klear, humbrol acrylic rail blue with humbrol white added to match garter blue, humbrol satin 85 black with Windsor and Newton flow improver.

 

Staying with the humbrol spray with success requires alot if practice to familiarise yourself with how it performs differently and gives different effects / results during different conditions / distances and techniques. I really recommend hot weather for best results sadly that seems to have gone before I may get chance to finish these. It may cost but please practice first on stuff that does not matter.

 

The varnish is very "hot" chemically due to lack of pigments. You can worry much less about paint due to heavy pigment.

 

These are the best spray paints I have ever used.

 

I spray my aircraft models with them. I discovered them when my airbrush packed up and I've not bought another since using these methods.

 

Cheers Rob

[iankemp]

Well this is were I am. All 3 With gripper coat done awaiting a seal over with klear and then the gloss coat will go on.

I am very happy with how they look they might not be super detailed ones but to me they are perfect.

Here we have 60s 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley. 4464 Bittern, and 4468 Mallard.

 

I hope you like them. Cheers Rob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much to modelmasters and foxx transfers for making this possible.

 

You can use the detailing pipe parts from the flying scotman detailing pack. It will give it that more authentic look for the mainline. Just a thought!

[Rob Hayes]

You can use the detailing pipe parts from the flying scotman detailing pack. It will give it that more authentic look for the mainline. Just a thought!

Hi thanks is the pack a separate item or something I need to hunt for on ebay. What does it include.

 

Cheers Rob

[DonnyRailMan]

Rob,  will you be giving your new Bachmann S N G a coat of gloss spray varnish or are you happy with

the Bachmann factory finish .

 

                             D.R.M.

[Rob Hayes]

Hi mate I think the new Bachmann paint is lovely as is it has a lovely satin sheen. However I might give it and mallard the same treatment in time. I am happy with factory finishes. But this gloss was a creative niggle I have wanted to satisfy for a while. Trouble is once you start and enjoy the results you realise you have just cost yourself more money as would like to do others now.

 

I have found a supplier that sells humbrol sprays at 3.99 which is better than the usual 4.99 so that might aid tarting locos up. Though some would say I'm wrecking them.

 

I guess I am from the younger 80s generation who only remembers steam locos looking as colourful and shiney as the most eye catching sweetie. Haha. Cheers Rob

[iankemp]

I got mine from Petersspares off ebay. It consisted of the pipe detail, drain cocks, spare wheel and the tender pipe. I have found a direct link for you if it works.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330690927937

 

Your models look really good i like the shinyness of them as they look more realistic than the normal finish.

[landscapes]

Hi Rob

 

I have just found your thread via Tom's York Leaman Road MPD layout.

 

Stunning models and photos as well, I do like the reflection photos in particular.

 

I am not a big fan of the A4's in LNER Blue with the valances fitted as I like to see them as I remember them in the early 1960's in Brunswick Green but I think your photos could change my mind.

 

Very nice work.

 

Regards

 

David

[DonnyRailMan]

I think my Bachmann A4 Mallard as more of a gloss than Hornby`s, but I am tempted to

give it a coat or two of gloss. My Bachmann S N G I may gloss if I am happy with the 

Mallard I plan to gloss. The thing is Rob I agree with you about how Bachmann`s  S N G

looks.

 

                                     D.R.M.

[DonnyRailMan]

Now the green ones

Reflections of the way life used to be , i would tittle these photo`s Rob.

[iankemp]

These are 2 of  the models i have changed from the original. The Green A4 WAS the DCC railroad version of Mallard ( NOW Dwight D Eisenhower ) and the one next to it WAS the double chimney version of Falcon ( NOW Bittern ). I have a single chimney version of Falcon which will be turned into Dominion of Canada.

 

[Rob Hayes]

I got mine from Petersspares off ebay. It consisted of the pipe detail, drain cocks, spare wheel and the tender pipe. I have found a direct link for you if it works.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330690927937

 

Your models look really good i like the shinyness of them as they look more realistic than the normal finish.

 

Many thanks for this Link I might well get around to doing that at some point. I am so happy to get a positive response about the shiny finish, Its always great to share what we have especially when its models that are unique to us with a bit of ourselves in it.

I was going to give golden age models a try but I really feel the Hornby model looks better especially when glossed like this, And at 400 pound cheaper what is not to like !.

If I won the lotto I would buy one though, and a loveless 0 gauge beast, yum.

 

Hi Rob

 

I have just found your thread via Tom's York Leaman Road MPD layout.

 

Stunning models and photos as well, I do like the reflection photos in particular.

 

I am not a big fan of the A4's in LNER Blue with the valances fitted as I like to see them as I remember them in the early 1960's in Brunswick Green but I think your photos could change my mind.

 

Very nice work.

 

Regards

 

David

Thanks very much mate, I am glad you are being swung over to the blue, I love all a4 liveries  I really love br green. I can remember last year I went to Arley on the SVR to see bittern, I was so excited, At last I would see an A4 in steam in blue with valences, A dream come true as I love mallard so much. I was full of cheer and spoke to the SVR staff porter, I asked if Bittern was due soon, He said "That bloody think, its the wrong colour it looks like a kids toy with red wheels" I felt sorry for him, I thought this is a man who has been bullied for likeing trains and feels the need to justify his love of them by being "serious about it" making the distinction that red wheels are stupid. I never thought that, for me the garter blue livery with its simple but lavish tastefull design and the deep or brighter red wheels screams of a british pre war confidence of quality, power, regal, elegance, style, and everything the A4 embodies,

This is lost on every generation after the war, when everything has become about cutting back, realism, fitting in, toning down, minimalism, efficiency. 

I think BR green is a great livery too It looks good on anything, I would never think any other loco would look good in garter blue, Imagine a manor in Garter Blue,,, eww.

But BR green makes me think work horse, Its a livery that looks good dirty It has an earthen camo tone much akin to RAF dark green. I think It is this livery that makes Locos truly look like they are part of nature.

The one A4 livery I LOVE but I think its the bravest and possibly most stupid colour for a sooty steamer is lner silver,, I bet they were a right PITTA to keep clean in the old industrial times when it constantly rained sooty debris from every factory in sight. But it was times when you could pay a desperate person next to nothing for hours of hard labour. But still I bet even in the 30s many a lad would clean a loco like silver fox for nothing given the chance. I know I would..

Enough waffle from me god I can go on,..  cheers Rob

I think my Bachmann A4 Mallard as more of a gloss than Hornby`s, but I am tempted to

give it a coat or two of gloss. My Bachmann S N G I may gloss if I am happy with the 

Mallard I plan to gloss. The thing is Rob I agree with you about how Bachmann`s  S N G

looks.

 

                                     D.R.M.

Aye the Bachmann finish is nice. I think I might however work on glossing sir nigel up in the future, I really love the BR blue livery she wears now. its fantastic. I love how they seem to have a habbit of painting bittern up as other A4s I would love to see this more often. I dont see the harm in using her this was to give us a glimpse of the past for those who have never seen long forgotten locos. I think bittern should be next painted as Golden eagle in LNER Green, then as Quicksilver In lner Grey, Then if they ever take the valance off, do her as Walter K whigham In br experimental blue/purple. That would be a sight for sore eyes. However She looks darling as she is and If she stays blue forever I am happy. It would however be nice to see her and sir nige In post war lner blue as 19 and 7, I know bittern ran like this in the early 70s for a very short time.

Cheers Rob

 

Reflections of the way life used to be , i would tittle these photo`s Rob.

That is a nice title, You have inspired me to have ago at something arty with these now.. Cheers Rob

 

These are 2 of  the models i have changed from the original. The Green A4 WAS the DCC railroad version of Mallard ( NOW Dwight D Eisenhower ) and the one next to it WAS the double chimney version of Falcon ( NOW Bittern ). I have a single chimney version of Falcon which will be turned into Dominion of Canada.

 

They look grand, I have wanted to have ago at doing the green ones as yours is and also usa They look great.

I am glad of your idea on doing DOC as I have that same single chim railroad falcon, so thanks for that I will do the same.. Cheers Rob

Edited October 5, 2013 by robhst

[iankemp]

You may be interested in this. I did a quick search and i found this.

 

http://www.greenwayproducts.com/storeroom/brass/brass_corner/horns_bells.html

 

 

Ok it maybe in America so you may pay a bit extra for the postage.

Edited October 7, 2013 by iankemp

[Rob Hayes]

You may be interested in this. I did a quick search and i found this.

 

http://www.greenwayproducts.com/storeroom/brass/brass_corner/horns_bells.html

 

 

Ok it maybe in America so you may pay a bit extra for the postage.

 

Hi yes very good link thanks ever so much for that, of course I will need a different whistle and bell for DOC. it would be nice to do DONZ as well, and EOI, USA, I do love the coronation blue A4s, It would also be good to do silver fox in garter blue but I need to confirm how the livery was, I hear she might have had silver boiler bands, cast foxes and a brass nameplate in black, or a red one, but that one stands out as a nice oddity of its own to model if it really was indeed painted as such,

 

Cheers Rob

[Rob Hayes]

Some things are worth waiting for.. I have longed all my life since childhood to have an extremely glossy Mallard, This even feel like the real one running my fingers along the body its so smooth and makes me smile more than it probably should ....oooo matron!

 

I had nearly a major disaster with this one.. due to the weather,... Failing to take my own advice I sprayed this in the overcast conditions and she turned white.. looked very effective for faded paint and the positive side of this is I can now accurately create faded BR diesels.. But I have never seen a faded Mallard !!! I hoped for 3 days that the sun would come back as I have the feeling this might be a UV cure varnish from humbrol..

 

At last the sun came and I did some tests in the same spot outside on the same day within mins of each spray using the same can of varnish.

When the sun went behind the clouds it frosted, But when there was a good gap in the clouds and Judging the wind speed of the clouds moving I reckoned I had time to shoot over another layer and In the sun the varnish behaved differently It dried to a deep gloss finish and the white frost disappeared. I reckon this is because the sun causes it to skin over quickly and allows the chemicals to do their work under neath to level and clarify. 

It seems that it is not so Important to warm the paint but make sure if you do this that it is a hot sunny day to do it on.

 

As a result of the above Mallard has got a thicker coat of varnish on  but I am still really happy with the results and she looks as glossy as the real thing so Its made me happy at least.

 

I quite often find that the models that fight you to the end are often your best in the end. its only months later when its finished and you have not been eyeballing it you look at it and think wow that come out alright. But during the build you look at every little bit so closely you don't take in the whole picture.

 

Any way here are some quick snaps on the Iphone I will take better ones soon.

I have rebuilt up the gap in the bottom of the valance added super detail cab interior fascia. All I need to do now is put some windows in and at some point when I am ready add alan gibson or ultrascale wheels and a comet motion set to another chassis to really give her that NRM look. But she looks ok for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of you will notice that I have switched the chassis for a super detail one, However this runs like a dog on the same decoder, I seems to speed up and slow down on each speed step, like its stiff and sort of emulating the way a pigeons head moves when walking, I take it this is a quartering issue... I suppose this is natures way of giving me that push I need to complete her with shiney wheels and motion.. I just need guidance on how to assemble and fit the motion to the wheels and Hornby chassis, I am sure it cant be that hard.... (famous last words huh)

 

Cheers Rob

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rob Hayes

[Rob Hayes]

Morning all I forgot to post these photos of how I built up the valance with some plastic sheet.

 

The Hornby A4 has small notches cut into the valance to in theory allow running on small radius curves. It is however a stupid pointless design as all this does is leave a very thin piece of plastic which the wheels will cut through as I have seen other people have trouble with, I had wondered about this as my eyes were instantly drawn to the ugly cut out. Its the only bit of the model I can really decide on not liking..

By adding another piece of plastic and then masking the area I then file it with a very fine grade file to approximate shape and then paint it blue,  Its not perfect but it

1. looks better, 2 means I don't have to worry about ugly cuts to the valance, 3 can still run on smaller radius curves,

 

It would be so simple for Hornby to put on the box for small radius curves look for our british railways non valanced A4s. Or some such.

 

Here Is Mallard getting the treatment.

 

 

 

 

I mixed up some Humbrol rail blue and white to get a close match to Hornby's Garter blue which actually varies from loco to loco.

 

 

 

 

Here is another shot of mallard how she currently stands. I really need some help on how to go about the valve gear, regarding eccentric arm fitting to alan gibson and ultrascale wheels, also if i can fit comet motion/valve gear to the Hornby chassis.

Also a photo of another project I have been working on. A model of a Vulcan I have been working on.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rob Hayes

[60800]

Looking brilliant Rob What varnish are you using?

[Rob Hayes]

Hi mate its humbrol spray acrylic gloss varnish from a rattle can and a johnsons klear base, techniques of how I applied it are explained earlier its a bit tricky and weather dependant. Worth it though.

[DonnyRailMan]

Anyone, Rob / Ian thought about doing  one of the A4s in war time black .

I have been after one myself but can not come across one Hornby or Bachmann .

[Rob Hayes]

Hi all. Well its been a very very long time since I updated this on going project.

 

Last year was very busy for me and this one will likely be the same but I have been making progress on these since and I have failed to update. I did get the final gloss finish on Sir Nigel Gresley, Bittern and Mallard. I am yet to replace the motion with the finer variety on the first 2.

 

I had come across some very Cheap Ultrascale wheels on ebay I picked them up for 20 quid including postage !. Lucky me. I was almost frightend to use them and that was a year ago.

I have done much reading on wheels, motion, etc etc.

I have also been asking many questions much to the annoyance of some on here I bet ! , But the advice on here has been brilliant and This past few weeks I have thrown myself in at the deep end.

 

I have done something that might be considered a sin to many on here but I have found it is indeed possible with care to resuse the Hornby fittings from the motion on Ultrascale, Scalelink and Alan Gibson wheels. At least on my ones. I tried this first on a Scalelink, Then an Alan Gibson, Then an Ultrascale. I have been successful and managed to make a working chassis using the Hornby A4 chassis, Hornby 80s Nickel plated motion, and the Ultrascales. This has given me a chassis that will look right for Mallard and now all I have to do is paint the wheels red and add the balance weights.

 

I want to share with people on here how I have done this as I have found the information on how to do this hard to come by. I know kit building is on the decline and I want to do my bit to try to share my first attempts with you all in the hope others have ago. I know many on here already know how to do this but there are likely many more like myself that wish to try.

 

So here goes...

 

 

I had started with the easy part, Fitting the Tender, Pony wheels etc,. These gripped well enough to not need any loctite and were a breese to assemble by hand and the back to backs checked with and Alan Gibson back to back gauge.

 

 

Before you put together your drivers you need to shim them and replace the Hornby washers with these, They are from Alan Gibson and come in a pack with various thicknesses, The Hornby ones do not seem to want to fit onto the axle so I replaced them as you can see in the photos.

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see I had fitted the Ultrascale pins but then soon after this I ditched them,  I had only fixed one side of the wheels with loctite 603 (thankfully)

So I could remove the wheels. The plastic Ultrascale uses is surprisingly tough and I had no problems with wear or loose wheels or any issues with them going out of true when refitting but I don't recommend messing unless absolutley nessercery.  The loctite 603 is nasty stuff if certainly grips VERY strong. If you get it wrong forget it so be careful.

 

I will also note the Hornby Gear that I refitted to the Ultrascale axle needed to be very slightly drilled wider to fit the axle. like the Hornby washers it would not refit.

When I say slightly drilled out I mean very slightly using only my fingers to twist the drill bit.

 

Here are the Ultrascales as you can see I have Drilled them out by hand using a pin vice and taking my time,. The plastic as I mention is very very strong and it took ages to drill out these holes using the molded ones as a guide. But as you can see the 80s Hornby part fits and so will the modern versions.

 

 

I had to file off the rivets holding the cross frame attachment from the modern railroad motion off a spare chassis I have and then drill the old motion parts out to fit to the cross frame. This again was done by hand with a file in a pin vice. I just put a comedy show on and sweated it out for a few hours and got through threre eventually. The old metal rods were made of much better quality material than these new ones and are very robust unlike the kitchen foil ones of today.

 

 

 

Moving on you can see I am now using my modified Railroad Peregrine to help with the build of the chassis for Mallard.

Here you can see the 80s Hornby Nickel matches the Ultrascale wheels a treat,. These motion sets might be basic but they are not that bad and they are strong. also the solid conection rod is one piece making the wheels move more realistically that the modern type. I like the robustness here and like with all modelling compromises are always to be made. I am having to delete the little lubricator arm thing (I am not sure what it is ) From the right wheel. But I can live with that. This is my first attempt at a loco chassis conversion and re-wheel.

 

 

I was going to use these Rivets from Alan Gibson but Instead used Alan Gibson crank pins and bolts.

You can see the holes that are drilled out ready to attach to the cross frame.

 

 

 

Here you can see the Hornby boss which Needs little mods to it to fit, with the shim washer in place on the axles as seen previously the boss at the back will not collide with the chassis or pickups. The only mod is the file down the oval ear on one side to allow you to set the lead correctly. There will be many times you will have to assemble and de assemble the chassis and motion to make sure this works freely with friction fit only before loctite 603 goes anywhere near... But its worth doing to get it right even if it does take you days.

 

The other advantage to this old motion being used is the return crank arm moves elaborately and realistically where as the later finer type hardly moves at all. I prefer this old type for that reason.

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can see the Gibson Crank pins holding the motion together these were tigtened and Loctite 603 applied when in situ on the loco to make sure they set in the right place.

 

 

 

And here is my 1st atempt at a chassis mod complete and running sweetly. I quartered it by eye and now I just need to add the red paint and the balance weights but right now I put the body on for a few photos and enjoy finally having an LNER A4 with nice shiney thick rimmed wheels. What a lovely site. I do like the blackend ones but I adore the highly polished look.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If only Hornby made the wheels like this in the first place it would have been perfect. Here is a comparison with the standard wheels which I must admit look fine for most locos.

If they had red to the edge which a few did.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading. I hope its not been boring and might be of help to others out there. I will be doing more conversions now and love ultrascale wheels. I also hope to do my first chassis soon.

 

I can see my previous posts photos have been lost due to a photobucket cockup. I will go back and amend this soon.

 

Kind Regards and thanks to many on here for helping me , In particular Horsetan.

 

Cheers Rob

Edited January 13, 2015 by Rob Hayes

[Rob Hayes]

Can some one recommend the best glue to fit the balance weights. I have Ultrascales own. I am not sure of the plastic they use. 

 

I was thinking superglue but I am not so sure of its longevity, I have Loctite 603, Gator Glue, Poly Cement, all to hand. But as the plastic is of a very strong nature I wonder what others recommend

 

Cheers Rob

[Rob Hayes]

Just to let you know. For anyone who is interested in what I had been doing earlier. I have now spent time going back and sorting out all the photos that were lost from the project in the past when I had a disaster with Photobucket.

 

All resolved now hopefully. Cheers Rob

[davidw]

I  like very much the project. Not used ultrascale wheels but I have used superglue on romfords. I you want to add lamp irons then Ian Harper produces an etch ( Silverlink on this site) which are very accurate representations of the Hornby lamp irons

Edited January 14, 2015 by davidw

[Rob Hayes]

I  like very much the project. Not used ultrascale wheels but I have used superglue on romfords. I you want to add lamp irons then Ian Harper produces an etch ( Silverlink on this site) which are very accurate representations of the Hornby lamp irons

Thanks very much I would like to add lamp irons and replace the Hornby weak plastic type with something robust.

Etch or steel / nickel would be good.

 

I'm using these railroad ones as practice runs I want to do a super detail mallard eventually and do it a little differently next time. Removing the handrails etc and the. Varnishing. Later adding bare nickel silver wire and knobs.

 

That said I am happy with these.

 

I also fancy doing a hammerd wartime black / dirt ridden A4 too as I also like mucky locos. Plus I like the idea of A4s on freight as they where then.

 

It would also be good to do something odd I wonder if there are any photo resources for LNER era A4s

 

The ultrascales are amazing I love gibsons too but these roll so well and are so easy to get absolutly true never seen wheels as good.

I will defiantly be ordering more. However on my next A4 rewheel I think I will use blackened Gibsons with Hornby fine detail motion on my Sir Nigel Gresley to give it that oily look she had in preservation. Might actually make a model of her in the 80s/90s condition as she was when I got to driver her as a kid on Carnfourth shed.

 

 

Glad your enjoying it i don't tend to post here that much but I should and intend to do so more often in the future.

 

Cheers Rob