Hachette MK1 SK coach - similarities to 1996-1997 Bachmann (Kader)

[6959]

In 1996, Bachmann introduced a new range of MK1 coaches that differed from the previous Mainline versions. However they had Mainline series catalogue numbers as follows:

 

Maroon SK 34-726; maroon SO 34-751; maroon BSK 34-776; maroon RU 34-801

Blue/grey SK 34-725; blue/grey SO 34-750; blue/grey BSK 34-775; blue/grey RU 34-800

Red/cream SK 34-727; red/cream SO 34-752; red/cream 34-777; (no RU in red/cream)

 

These were also shown in the 1997 catalogue and had such features as fine roof weld seams, moulded water pipes on ends and simplified gangways. They had small Mainline couplings attached to the bogies.

 

There was not a large catalogue in 1998, just a series of folded leaflets pronouncing the 'Blue Riband' range of stock. The 1999 catalogue showed illustrations of 1996-97 coaches but by they now had 39-xxx series marketing numbers and had been introduced the previous year. In the 2000 catalogue were displayed actual pictures of the new 'Blue Riband' coaches with obvious changes such as, different ends with gangways having a more visible concertina, wire water pipes to the roof, and more pronounced roof weld seams. They had what Bachmann call the 'Mk2' smaller couplings attached to the chassis instead of the bogies.

 

I did not buy any Bachmann MK1s in 1996-97 and since then have been unable to find any of the crimson and cream coaches 34-727, 34-752 and 34-777 to compare with the 'Blue Riband' coaches. It could be that these were a leftover project from Mainline and were an interim measure until the new tooling was available and not many were produced.

 

When I took apart the recent Hachette MK1 coaches there was an obvious similarity with the Kader design but not an exact copy of the current Bachmann production. Looking through the 1996 and 1997 Bachmann catalogues there are obvious similarities to the 34-series Bachmann MK1s such as, moulded water pipes, fine roof weld seams, gangway ends without concertina.

 

Does anyone on this forum have any of the 34-series MK1s and can measure the overall length to see if it is 1 or 2mm longer than a recent Bachmann MK1? Without wishing to start a conspiracy theory, I wonder if the Hachette SK uses some of the 1996-97 tooling. However, the Hatchette chassis is unlike the 1996 version which had couplings attached to the bogies and incorporates the more recent close coupling device.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I haven't got any early Bachmann Mk1s, but on the later Mainline Restaurant Buffet Car the body is still a one-piece moulding, as is the Replica BG. The window vents are also part of the body moulding on both of those.

[mark54]

There never were any 34-XXX releases. The catalogue models shown were mock-ups. It must have taken 3 or 4 years from when the Mk1's were first announced to when they were actually appeared. In that time the higher quality "Blue Riband" concept had come in, no doubt giving the change in catologue numbers. The RU was even later than that and for some reason wasn't released until after the CK, FK & BG.

 

Mark

[6959]

 

There never were any 34-XXX releases. The catalogue models shown were mock-ups. It must have taken 3 or 4 years from when the Mk1's were first announced to when they were actually appeared. In that time the higher quality "Blue Riband" concept had come in, no doubt giving the change in catologue numbers. The RU was even later than that and for some reason wasn't released until after the CK, FK & BG.

 

Mark

 

 

Thanks for the info. That explains why I have been unable to find any 34-727; 34-752 or 34-777, and saves me wasting time looking. Knocks the Hachette possible linage theory though. After a flourish releasing the Modified Halls and some other new items in 1996-97, Bachmann seems to gone in the Doldrums in 1998-99, and did not get going again until the 2000 catalogue releases confirmed previous expectations.

[Roy P]

Whether or not we differentiate between the announcements and releases, looking back I feel that far from being in the doldrums, that period marks the point that Bachmann Europe Plc. became the force it is today rather than a distributor for old Kadar/Palitoy tooling. Hornby's response was to obtain the former Airfix tooling from Dapol as a quick fix pending their "Crown Line moment" and that fact alone will attest to the effect Bachmann's efforts were having on the R-T-R scene at that time. While I agree that we had to wait a while for some of the seeds to bear fruit (Wasn't it the Intermodal wagons that took longest to appear?) I recall purchasing the N class mogul, the 8750 Pannier and the WD during this period. the Gronk and standard tank came shortly after. This is, I suppose, what was meant by getting going by 2000 and I wouldn't disagree with that observation.

With reference to the late arrival (and subsequent sell out!) of Bachmann's Blue Riband Mk1s, I recall a stall holder at the Amersham toyfair/swapmeet suggesting to a potential customer that the selection of Lima coaches he had for sale were sure to become sought after as the forthcoming Bachmann product "Is so poor".

It is of course possible that the stall holder is a member of this forum and that he might what to raise his hand now and explain.

RP

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There never were any 34-XXX releases. The catalogue models shown were mock-ups. It must have taken 3 or 4 years from when the Mk1's were first announced to when they were actually appeared. In that time the higher quality "Blue Riband" concept had come in, no doubt giving the change in catologue numbers.

 

 I have a 1996 catalogue by the kind agency of a former colleague who bunged one in the post to me, with exclamation mark punctuated scrawlings around the WD, N class and 08, likewise the BR mk1 coaches. Until reading this I had never clocked that the mk1 coaches didn't emerge in the 34-xxx versions, other than the non-corridor types. It was worth the wait wasn't it?

 

...It is of course possible that the stall holder is a member of this forum and that he might what to raise his hand now and explain...

 

[tasteless]He would if he could, but his mortal remains still await discovery in a lock up garage under a mountain of Lima boxes.[/tasteless]

[Andy Y]

I wonder if the Hachette SK uses some of the 1996-97 tooling. However, the Hatchette chassis is unlike the 1996 version which had couplings attached to the bogies and incorporates the more recent close coupling device.

 

 

Response from Bachmann

 

I can confirm that the coach issued with the Hachette part work is not a Bachmann or Kader product. It uses neither the former Mainline or the current Bachmann Branchline Mark 1 tooling.

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe Plc

[TheSignalEngineer]

My bet would be that someone has back-engineered a Bachmann Mk1 into the cheapest possible components for Hachette.

[andyman7]

My bet would be that someone has back-engineered a Bachmann Mk1 into the cheapest possible components for Hachette.

i.e. it's a cheap Chinese copy.....

[6959]

Now that we have confirmation that Kader/ Bachmann did not make these Hachett SK coaches, and we accept that it is a very close clone/ copy of a current Bachmann coach, does that mean that the Hachette coaches are counterfeit?

 

No doubt, Hachette Partworks Ltd can cover their backs but I wonder how ebay would respond to someone reporting the listing of Hachette coaches as being counterfeit.

 

Swiftly moving on, it is a good time to consider the harm or otherwise of these cheap coaches hitting the shelves. For my part, I dislike maroon coaches, preferring crimson and cream or chocolate and cream, but only maroon is what I remenber from 1960-ish, I have several steam loco's with cigar label emblems on their tender, and I collect green diesels without yellow warning panels, so I need a few maroon coaches for them to pull. A basic train of 'Ordinary Stock' could comprise BSK + CK + SK  + BSK, or, BSK + SK + SK + BCK, or BSK + SK + CK + BG. I had a list of Western Region maroon Bachmann coaches to look out for on ebay but was also awaiting the new Hornby MK1s. A rake from each camp would suit my needs. The Hachette coaches were an impulse buy. The result is I need other coaches and will probably buy Bachmann and Hornby maroon MK1s at the right price.

 

The biggest losers from my perspective are ebay sellers because I spent my float on the Hachette coaches and stopped looking on ebay. The biggest winners are probably the model shops for razor saws, plastic card, paint and adhesives, Replica Railways for transfers and bits, Halfords and local car accessory shops for paint.

 

One benefit could be to take the heat off the Bachmann coaches for spares or repair that are sought by the cut and shut modellers.

['CHARD]

So long as they are described as Hachette, everything is fine: they were commissioned by Hachette from a supplier, and although unbranded when removed from the partwork packaging, they are clearly not one of the other manufacturers' output, as all those ARE branded.

 

eBay would only respond, by taking down a listing, if someone is deliberately seen to attempt to deceive by listing one as being from another source (Replica, Bachmann etc).  Without such intent, there's no audit trail of counterfeiting, especially not back to the vendor.

 

If I listed a Replica SK as Hachette, that would be misleading in precisely the same way.  The law has no eye for the relative merits of each coach, only for what they are purported to be.

 

On the other thread I think we established that this is a commissioned coach reverse engineered at source.  I don't think members need lose any sleep over being awoken from their beds by a knock at the door from the MkI provenance wing of the secret police.

[Butler Henderson]

Would be very difficult to say they are counterfeits given the solid underframe.

[frobisher]

Now that we have confirmation that Kader/ Bachmann did not make these Hachett SK coaches, and we accept that it is a very close clone/ copy of a current Bachmann coach, does that mean that the Hachette coaches are counterfeit?

 

No doubt, Hachette Partworks Ltd can cover their backs but I wonder how ebay would respond to someone reporting the listing of Hachette coaches as being counterfeit.

How could they possibly be counterfeit? They are not being passed off or represented as anything other than what they are.

[Andy Y]

I've locked this topic (as there seems to be a proliferation of similar topics) and moved it (as it's not a Bachmann product).

It's worth re-iterating that this is not a Kader/Bachmann product nor is it Hornby, Dapol or Heljan. It looks likely that one or more products were sent to a separate production source along with a remit of how cheap could you produce this/could you make this for $x? The R&D process is therefore substantially curtailed and we have an interpretation of a model produced by a manufacturer who had the equipment, staff and skills to produce something that looks similar.

None of our traditional manufacturers could hope to produce anything to sell at that cost and it's likely that it's a loss-leader or just about covers its costs rather than being a product designed to deliver a margin. Its benefit to the publisher comes from ongoing purchases of the series (if there's any stock or awareness of the series left in the target audience).

What concerns me is the point that £z have been hoovered out of modellers pockets that the is not spent with the retailers or traditional manufacturers; every bargain has a price. Since when could you buy a Mark I for £4?