SEEP Point Motor and Dimming Layout Lights

[BR(S)]

I have just successfully wired up my first SEEP point motor with a spring-loaded toggle switch.  It gets its power from the 16V AC supply on a Gaugemaster M1 transformer, the 2 x 12V DC outputs supplying a host of layout lights and signals. 

 

Unfortunately, when operating the point motor, all the lights on the layout go dim for a second.  Before I spend money on a Capacitor Discharge Unit and possibly a couple of slow action point motors, can I ask if the CDU will stop the layout lights going dim through the power surge it gives to the point motors, rather than relying directly on the M1 transformer each time?  Or is something else possibly causing this problem, such as too many lights etc being fed by the M1 transformer?

[amdaley]

The reason the lights are dimming is because the Gaugemaster is struggling to supply power to change the seep point motor which can be several amps.

I would change to slow action motors but if like me you have a lot of Seep's in stock then get a CDU & use an old laptop power adapter to supply the power.These are usually lying around when laptops pack up & are idea for use with Cdu's & Seep's.

 

I would also look around for some old dc phone adapters or similar to supply power for your light & signals.

Its always better to have separate power supplies for things like Points motors & lights.

 

If you do change to slow action point motors then use a separate power supply for use with them.

[BR(S)]

Thanks.  As I only have two points and bought the SEEP to practice wiring a point motor, I'm going to use slow action motors and will get a separate power supply and CDU.  The SEEPs would be fine for the snap of a hand operated point but I'd like realistic movement for motor controlled points.   

[RFS]

If you're looking for some Tortoise point motors then "Gostude" on Ebay has some going cheap!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CIRCUITRON-800-6000-O-GAUGE-ELECTRIC-POINT-MOTOR-SLOW-MOTION-SWITCH-MACHINE-mv-/360748865896?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item53fe4ed968

 

You don't need a CDU with these motors as they only draw very little current.

[Crosland]

Thanks.  As I only have two points and bought the SEEP to practice wiring a point motor, I'm going to use slow action motors and will get a separate power supply and CDU.  The SEEPs would be fine for the snap of a hand operated point but I'd like realistic movement for motor controlled points.   

The choice is slow action motors or a CDU.  A CDU wil give no benefit for slow action motors and wil be a waste of money.

 

Andrew

[amdaley]

Thanks.  As I only have two points and bought the SEEP to practice wiring a point motor, I'm going to use slow action motors and will get a separate power supply and CDU.  The SEEPs would be fine for the snap of a hand operated point but I'd like realistic movement for motor controlled points.   

You don't need a CDU with the slow action motors.

The two main brands of slow action point motors seem to be DCC Concepts Cobalt & Tortoise.

Both these motors work best with the spring remover from the point.

They only require a low voltage DC wall adapter of about 9 Volts & are simply operated with a two way switch.

 

With a quick search I have come up with the following suppliers.

http://www.sherwoodmodels.co.uk/prestashop/index.php?id_category=156&controller=category for Tortoise and http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000511/1000594/1551664/0/DCC_Concepts_Any_or_Multiple_Scales_Point_motors/prodlist.aspx for Cobalt.

I have no connection with these companies.

 

Here is information on the Tortoise motors http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm

and Cobalt here http://www.dccconcepts.com/PDF_Downloads/cobalt_instructions.pdf

The Tortoise motor is larger than the Cobalt.

 

Do not buy second hand slow action point motors unless you know where they are coming from & you are certain that they work correctly.

[BR(S)]

The choice is slow action motors or a CDU.  A CDU wil give no benefit for slow action motors and wil be a waste of money.

 

Andrew

 

 

You don't need a CDU with the slow action motors.

The two main brands of slow action point motors seem to be DCC Concepts Cobalt & Tortoise.

Both these motors work best with the spring remover from the point.

They only require a low voltage DC wall adapter of about 9 Volts & are simply operated with a two way switch.

 

With a quick search I have come up with the following suppliers.

http://www.sherwoodmodels.co.uk/prestashop/index.php?id_category=156&controller=category for Tortoise and http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000511/1000594/1551664/0/DCC_Concepts_Any_or_Multiple_Scales_Point_motors/prodlist.aspx for Cobalt.

I have no connection with these companies.

 

Here is information on the Tortoise motors http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm

and Cobalt here http://www.dccconcepts.com/PDF_Downloads/cobalt_instructions.pdf

The Tortoise motor is larger than the Cobalt.

 

Do not buy second hand slow action point motors unless you know where they are coming from & you are certain that they work correctly.

 

Thanks both.  I've spent today investigating slow action point motors and had made the decision to go with 2 x Cobalt.  You have just confirmed my choice!  I would definitely buy new as this is new modelling territory for me. 

 

Thanks for the info about the CDU; will save me a few pennies. 

 

One other question if I may: looking at the DCC concepts switch pack with LEDs (http://www.ehattons.com/59675/DCC_Concepts_DCP_CMSP_Cobalt_DPDT_switch_pack_for_panel_mounting_with_multi_coloured_LEDs/StockDetail.aspx), they appear to be non-spring loaded.  Is this is due to a slow action point motor not requiring a "punch" of power?

[amdaley]

With slow action point motors you use two way switches not spring loaded back to center types. You only use the spring loaded switches with the solenoid type point motors like Hornby, Peco & Seep which need a large momentary burst of power.

Slow action motors need continuous power applied at all times. That's what keeps the switch rail tightly closed because you remove the spring from the tie bar of the points.

[BR(S)]

Thanks to all for their help.  I've now placed an order for the various things I need and should hopefully have motor controlled trap points from Sunday.

[danphi11ips]

Good Evening, I hate to steal this thread, but is there a way to wire LEDs so they are constantly showing which route a Tortoise motor is set to? I am trying at the moment but am having no success.

 

Thanks a lot

Dan

[kevinlms]

Good Evening, I hate to steal this thread, but is there a way to wire LEDs so they are constantly showing which route a Tortoise motor is set to? I am trying at the moment but am having no success.

 

Thanks a lot

Dan

Yes

 

http://www.brunelhobbies.com.au/tortoise/instruct1.pdf

http://www.brunelhobbies.com.au/tortoise/instruct2.pdf

 

Specifically

 

Read Note 4 near the bottom of page 2. If the LED's are in series with the motor, they go dim while the motor is moving & when in final position they glow normally. Exactly what you want & no switches or resistors. The inbuilt switches can then be used for other uses.

[Sasquatch]

Having just fitted my first seep motor I've wired it to run off  my lighting circuit  which has a separate 12v plug.  I use  a separate toggle switch for the points to that of the lights but I can run lights (15 plus LEDS ) and the seep motor together if desired. The plug was purchased on ebay and is for CCTVs but as mentioned in replys any similar plugs can be used.

You might want to check the amperage of your power supply Peter, you'll probably going to need about 3amps for that lot. 

[Sasquatch]

If you're using 12v lamps which typically draw 75mA that's 1.25A and the SEEP unit wants about 500mA that's 1.75A if that toggle switch fails (which  does happen believe me) you will probablly be looking at a melt down or worse as those charger plugs don't have fuses and rarely a cut out!

Try the Gaugemaster CDU it has transistors which only release a pulse of current and there can never be such problems. You can give it up to 24V DC which will through a point motor at the end of a 300' run! 

 

Regards Shaun.

 

Edit: no conection to Gaugemaster other than a very satisfied customer.