Running steam locos in reverse

[burgundy]

I cannot put a hand on the reference at the moment but I have a feeling that the Board of Trade may have had some views on this. In the early days (1851), there was an accident on the LBSC near Falmer, when a tender loco, running in reverse with a passenger train, became derailed. There was a strong suspicion that a sleeper may have been left across the tracks, but the BoT took the opportunity to criticise tender first running on passenger trains. At the time, the Brighton had a number of stub branches and some new turntables had to be provided. A number of older passenger tender locos were also converted to tank engines.  

I would therefore be slightly surprised if there were not some pretty firm guidance on the subject.

Best wishes  

Eric

[buffalo]

I cannot put a hand on the reference at the moment but I have a feeling that the Board of Trade may have had some views on this...

See this topic, from post #4 on BoT requirements for provision of turntables. These, however, only lasted until some time in the twenties.

 

Nick

[RJS1977]

In some cases, visibility might well have been improved running tender first! (No boiler in the way!).

 

However the risk of derailment was higher as running tender first is effectively a propelling move.

[Phil Bullock]

In one of Tony Barfields books - well worth reading - there is a chapter on running an RAF special to Bridgnorth with 6877 Llanfair Grange - a Worcester engine. Not only did that involve returning tender first with the empty stock but Granges were banned as too heavy at that time any way!

 

Any working to an intermediate location on a line like this would have involved tender first running in one direction. Kidderminster had 43xx - used for coal from Alveley colliery - and 22xx which were used for the Cleobury Mortimer goods - so tender first running was most certainly a daily event as no turning facility on Severn Valley between Hartlebury/Kidderminster (Using Kidder - Bewdley - Hartlebury triangle) and Shrewsbury.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[Happy Hippo]

Travelling above shunting speed in reverse on a tender loco without a tender cab is not a pleasant experience.

 

If it is wet and windy,  a weather sheet cannot really protect against the elements.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[PhilH]

They don't like it much out on the real railway even today - on main line registered steam engines the maximum permitted speeds are painted inside the cab above where the driver sits. The maximum for tender first running (usually only used for light engine / light engine plus support coach moves) is 45 mph.

[coachmann]

The Austerity 2-8-0s at 'our' shed were usually turned to face in a particular direction to suit their next job. This was the 'ideal' but it didnt always work out that way if a loco had taken a route that got it back on shed facing in the opposite direction to which if left. The lines around Manchester were a spegatti of triangles and loops. Regardless, the job still had to be done so it was then a case of doing it backurds! Any reverse speed limit would have been acadamic on an Austerity. But a lot of work entailed trip working and a daily visit to all the local goods yards so tender first working was inevitable in one direction. I would guess almost half the work I did involved backward running either with a train, running light to take up a duty, or returning to shed. A trip back to Lees shed from Rochdale would have been a piece of cake had we been allowed on te Oldham Loop line, but instead we were forced to go back towards Manchester to Miles Platting. Depending on whether we took the facing chord or reversed (it was a triangle) determined the direction the loco arrived back on shed. We then returned towards Stalybridge and then the OA&GB via Park Bridge before gaining the Oldham Branch back to Lees shed. What a palava and it was very likely a microcosm of what was going on all over the BR system in steam days.

[Alan Higgi]

They don't like it much out on the real railway even today - on main line registered steam engines the maximum permitted speeds are painted inside the cab above where the driver sits. The maximum for tender first running (usually on used for light engine / light engine plus support coach moves) is 45 mph.

It was 45mph back in the day too

[The Stationmaster]

Many years ago I went on a school trip on a special train - we ran tender first up the branch, ran round at the junction and then the 'Castle' worked chimney first through to Basinstolke (where it was replaced by a 'Schools' to work forward to Chichester.  On the return working the 'Castle' was chimney first from Basingstoke which meant it was tender first down the branch; running in both directions was in the normal branch time for a 10 coach train although I'm sure we never got anywhere near the then permitted maximum speed over the branch which was 50mph.

[coachmann]

On 'Landscapes of Steam. Vol' video filmed mostly by Richard Greenwood, there is a shot from the Wigan 'Alps' of an ex. LMS Jubilee going tender first at a good clip with a passenger train. No special mention was made so you can draw your own conclusions.