Hurrah for the BBC

[Ian Hargrave]

Sadly,we dinosaurs are railing at what we justifiably see as the misappropriation of the English language.If you delve into the history of language and its development,you will see that it was ever thus.Language,whether we like or not ( and I don't ) is in a state of constant flux.

A few years ago,your humble local council roadman......you know,the kind constantly lampooned for leaning on his shovel.....was called exactly that....a'roadman'. Now we have Local Authority Highways Departments.

In a recent long-winded exchange of letters and e-mails between self and Staffordshire 'Highways' ( Where's Dick Turpin ? ) concerning state of walls and hedges on pavement,I have moved to the stage where my concerns have been passed on to a worthy rejoicing in the title of........'Reactive Inspector'.....heigh ho....plus ca change....etc.

[HarryBill]

From Fowler's Modern English Usage (1983 rev edn): "That different can only be followed by from and not by to is a superstition ... This does not imply that different from is wrong; on the contrary, it is 'now usual' (OED); but it is only so owing to the dead set made against different to by mistaken critics."

 

I am not saying you're wrong, I merely write this to point out that in 1926/1983 there was a different take on the matter!

 

Possibly HMS Dauntless (Burghfield near Reading) but I've an idea there might have been something in the Midlands somewhere (an aircraft recovery base?) although I don't know if it was an 'HMS'.

Would you say "differs to".

[edcayton]

My Mum used to get really cross when people said the name of the letter "H" as haitch. She would shout at the telly "it's aitch!". My kids would say "get over yourself Nan", which made her cross again!

 

Ed

[roythebus]

_{I spose I could of said train station after all, I was a teenager once, innit!}

 

_{I am all for new words coming into use where they have no equivalent, but abhor the laziness of a lot of people to use correct words. This is borne out by the news reports today saying how far behind the English are in literacy and numeracy. It is not helped by the meejah dumbing down the language.}

[Happy Hippo]

My hippodrome is on the plain.............

 

Now hiding in the mud

[Catkins]

Going off on a tangent somewhat BUT I am a motor cyclist SO why am I called a biker?

You are called a biker because you are said to be riding a bike, the name is descriptive. If you think about thatched cottages, the person who repairs the roofing is called a Thatcher.

 

I thought they were called 'aerodromes'...

The Navy further confused matters by calling their shore establishments 'HMS xxxx'- I wonder what the furthest one from the sea was?

RAF Cranwell, in Lincolnshire, was a Naval Air Station when the navy flew Airships. There is also a small naval presence at MOD/RAF/USAF* Menwith Hill near Harrogate.

 

 

*chose your operator, all three are there, but there is no evidence that the US intelligence services are there.

[The Stationmaster]

Sadly,we dinosaurs are railing at what we justifiably see as the misappropriation of the English language.If you delve into the history of language and its development,you will see that it was ever thus.Language,whether we like or not ( and I don't ) is in a state of constant flux.

A few years ago,your humble local council roadman......you know,the kind constantly lampooned for leaning on his shovel.....was called exactly that....a'roadman'. Now we have Local Authority Highways Departments.

In a recent long-winded exchange of letters and e-mails between self and Staffordshire 'Highways' ( Where's Dick Turpin ? ) concerning state of walls and hedges on pavement,I have moved to the stage where my concerns have been passed on to a worthy rejoicing in the title of........'Reactive Inspector'.....heigh ho....plus ca change....etc.

Job titles are some of the worst examples of the practice of using too many words or the wrong words.  During our recent battle of correspondence and complaint with Nightmares Dreams we received one letter from a (the?)  'Correspondence Executive'  - an utterly meaningless term when you think about it, especially as she didn't make decisions and provided even more ammunition for my complaint based on the Sale of Goods Act.

[melmerby]

Considering that we in the UK have called those two pieces of parallel metal "Railroad", "Tramroad", "Tramway" and "Waggonway" (and others, no doubt) at various times, saying Railway Station is grammatically correct and Train Station isn't is just poppycock.

 

Train Station is not an Americanism and has been around at least 50 years so is hardly new.

Why the current bouts of apoplexy by certain people who insist they and only they are correct?

From whence does the proof that "Train Station" is incorrect come?

 

Keith

[EddieB]

Those alleging pedantry usually sacrifice simple logic on the altar of ignorance.  Stations are part of the infrastructure of the railway - to say infrastructure of trains makes little sense and seems clumsy.  Similarly, you would never say "train bridge" or "train embankment".   Only where a building or structure has a specific and dedicated use would it apply to "train" rather than "railway" - e.g. "trainshed" to identify a part of a station (a roof covering the tracks).

[HSB]

I suppose 'train station' is no worse than 'bus station' but, as Ben A said, it just sounds wrong. I've always assumed it was an American import as it seemed to appear in US TV programmes and films before it caught on over here and I certainly don't recall anybody using the term 50 years ago.

[Porcy Mane]

There is also a small naval presence at MOD/RAF/USAF* Menwith Hill near Harrogate.

 

Used to be just round the corner till the powers that be closed it. "RNAS Forest Hall". Reminded me of one of those remote British Colonial outposts in the middle a desert when I used to visit it in the Sixties. "Me Dad" was stationed there.

 

Porcy

[roythebus]

No, the Yanks use the term "railroad station". I've not heard them use the term train station. Graham Farish used the term railroad in their 1950s adverts (see the Vintage and Collectable page for details) so railroad is an acceptable term. Train station isn't. It simply does not sound right.

[edcayton]

But surely a "trainshed" spends most of its time with no trains in it and would be better called a trackshed? 

 

Ed

[F-UnitMad]

No, the Yanks use the term "railroad station". I've not heard them use the term train station.

Re this and the OP; surely if the Reporter had been influenced by American terminology he'd have called it a "Railroad Depot"...??? (pronounced "Dee-poh".... )

[Martino]

Yes, those of us who prefer Railway Station are indeed fighting a loosing battle.

 

Here in the US, the term 'depot' is the usual.

 

Strangely, a large amount of US English appears to be exactly as English was spoken in the 1700s, it's British English that has changed more with influences from the Empire, Colonies, fashion and fad.

 

To use a common expression here in the Deep South, 'it would behoove us to remember that'.

[jjb1970]

Languages evolve and change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. I am interested in history and when reading old documents in the English of Queen Elizabeth or Cromwell it is almost like reading something in a foreign language. My late father used to rage at the modern meaning of the word gay as to him gay retained its earlier meaning carefree and happy. In a sense whether or not something is grammatically correct is probably less important than how it is used in general conversation and written communication. I agree that railway station is the correct term but when even railway signage has changed to train station then it becomes a moot point really and we just have to live with it. I really regret that I went to school in an era when the political idea of the day was that grammar didn't matter and it was only about being able to express ourselves which led to a whole generation of children leaving school with a very poor understanding of grammar and English. I really do regret that.

[roythebus]

But surely a "trainshed" spends most of its time with no trains in it and would be better called a trackshed? 

 

Ed

No, Brunel's magnificent trainshed as well as Barlow's spend a lot of time with trains in them! AFAIK they've always been known as train sheds! My train shed is only 22' x 16', but then my trains are a lot smaller!

[RJS1977]

No, Brunel's magnificent trainshed as well as Barlow's spend a lot of time with trains in them! AFAIK they've always been known as train sheds! My train shed is only 22' x 16', but then my trains are a lot smaller!

In one of CJF's plan books, he infers that overall roofs/train sheds were there originally not so much to protect passengers from the weather as to protect the stock when not en route (e.g. overnight). As someone who volunteers on a preserved railway, I can concur with that!

[RJS1977]

From Fowler's Modern English Usage (1983 rev edn): "That different can only be followed by from and not by to is a superstition ... This does not imply that different from is wrong; on the contrary, it is 'now usual' (OED); but it is only so owing to the dead set made against different to by mistaken critics."

 

I am not saying you're wrong, I merely write this to point out that in 1926/1983 there was a different take on the matter! 

 

I did a proofreading course in 2005 which told me that "different to" is the correct wording, not "different from" and very definitely not "different than". I can certainly remember hearing "different to" much earlier in my life than either of the others - and I'm only 36!

[RJS1977]

Interestingly that particular mispronunciation entered usage as a result of Michael Crawford mispronouncing it for comic effect in Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em! And they say TV doesn't influence people...

 

 

 

 

Incidentally I pronounce harass in the correct way and not in the way which seems to have entered various sub-cultures in our country in recent years;

[RJS1977]

Possibly HMS Dauntless (Burghfield near Reading) but I've an idea there might have been something in the Midlands somewhere (an aircraft recovery base?) although I don't know if it was an 'HMS'.

 

Not a Navy base, but still (until recently) part of MoD - the Met Office's facility for repair of ocean buoys is at.... Nottingham! (About as far from the sea as you can get).

 

Their HQ is in Exeter....

[The Lurker]

 

Fair rises? Blame the American spell check supplied with Microsoft!! 

 

 

Not sure a spell checker would pick up that; "fair" is after all a perfectly valid word. That's the danger with relying on spellcheckers, although they are good at picking up bad typing....!

[trisonic]

Re this and the OP; surely if the Reporter had been influenced by American terminology he'd have called it a "Railroad Depot"...??? (pronounced "Dee-poh".... )

 

 

 

Not all Stations in the USA are called Depots.

Hang on, why am I getting involved in this thread? Because "Yanks" only live in a handful of States in the North East of the USA?

 

If we're going to get pedantic then we need to get absolutely everything right...

 

Best, Pete.

[Fat Controller]

Yes, those of us who prefer Railway Station are indeed fighting a loosing battle.

 

Here in the US, the term 'depot' is the usual.

 

Strangely, a large amount of US English appears to be exactly as English was spoken in the 1700s, it's British English that has changed more with influences from the Empire, Colonies, fashion and fad.

 

To use a common expression here in the Deep South, 'it would behoove us to remember that'.

Much the same relationship exists between Quebecquois French and 'Mainland' French. The former owes a lot to the regional dialects of the people from western France who formed the majority of the 16th/17th century colonists; subsequently, because of the proximity of their Anglophone neighbours, they have become far more purist than the French. One of the more notable features is that 'Beccie' swearwords tend to invoke religion, as did English ones in the Colonial period, whilst French ones (much like current English ones) use bodily functions and sexual activity.

[Welly]

When the phrase "train tracks" become more widespread, let's propose "plane tracks" for the runways at "plane stations"!