RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2013 Looking at the latest 4F from Bachmann has got me thinking (never a good thing, me thinks ) . It appears that apart from the safety valves (and a blind eye to the chimney and dome profile ), a passable Armstrong could be created with some new numbers and sdjr on the tender........Surely it cannot be that simple...... Leading on from that, what about the 3F? Now this approach will not sit well with the rivet counters but what is the general consensus? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Regarding the 4F: Go for it! Reboilerings at overhauls could be blamed for the boiler fittings (check prototype photos if you really want to - or get some replacements) and the safety valves would be changed at some time anyway. The 'Armstrongs' were built to the same drawings as the MR locos. I would have to do some reading about the 3Fs but if you are not a rivet counter, why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 16, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2013 Cheers Bruce. It appears that Bachmann collectors club have issued one in S&D blue. This looks as if it has ramsbottom safety valves as standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2013 As well as having the wrong chimney and dome for an Armstrong in SDJ condition, the Bachmann 4F also has the wrong tender. The 3F needs a lot less work to make a convincing Bulldog, and could quite legitimately carry the blue livery - unlike the 4F! Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 18, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 Indeed Jerry. I have a Hornby 4f in blue. I think it was a ltd edition some year back bought in Bath. I am aware of the chimney dome stuff but I have a far less crtical eye. I feel the overall look is there. Regards the tender, is the 3f tender more suitable fir the 4f then? I am aware that the 4f 3f S&D thing has been discussed before but i am looking at this from an average modellers perspective. . Btw Jerry, saw you at the Titfield show, very nice layout. Are you at the Cardiff show or did I get my wires crossed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 Indeed Jerry. I have a Hornby 4f in blue. I think it was a ltd edition some year back bought in Bath. I am aware of the chimney dome stuff but I have a far less crtical eye. I feel the overall look is there. Regards the tender, is the 3f tender more suitable fir the 4f then? I am aware that the 4f 3f S&D thing has been discussed before but i am looking at this from an average modellers perspective. . Btw Jerry, saw you at the Titfield show, very nice layout. Are you at the Cardiff show or did I get my wires crossed Bachman have done the beaded, flush riveted tender. The SDJ 4Fs had the rivetted tender with no beading (as did the majority of MR 4Fs) Yes, we are at Cardiff this coming weekend with Highbury. Come and say hello if you are there. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Cheers Bruce. It appears that Bachmann collectors club have issued one in S&D blue. This looks as if it has ramsbottom safety valves as standard. Sold out weeks ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 Bachman have done the beaded, flush riveted tender. The SDJ 4Fs had the rivetted tender with no beading (as did the majority of MR 4Fs) I wonder if the rivetted, non-beaded tender may have been produced by Bachmann in connection with a different loco, perhaps? If so, might be worth contacting them to see if any spares are available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I wonder if the rivetted, non-beaded tender may have been produced by Bachmann in connection with a different loco, perhaps? If so, might be worth contacting them to see if any spares are available? It looks a though they have used the same tender as on the 3F. It's the Johnson design, not the Fowler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 I wonder if the rivetted, non-beaded tender may have been produced by Bachmann in connection with a different loco, perhaps? If so, might be worth contacting them to see if any spares are available? I don't know about 4mm but I wrote to Bachmann when they announced the N gauge 4F suggesting they do the riveted pattern as it was suitable for the SDJ Armstrongs as well as the MR ones. From the pre production samples I have seen it looks as though they have gone for the beaded one again. This is a shame although I can understand the logic as the beaded version was much more common on other MR locos such as the 3F and 2P which gives them options for the future. I am hoping that, being plastic, the beading can be reasonably easily carved off and replaced with some of those transfer rivets that I've not had a play with yet. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 18, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 I will say hello Jerry but not sure if it will be Sat or Sun morning. I think I will go ahead and do a re numbering job and be damned.... I have always wanted to model the S&D pre BR days and I think this is the way forward. Well to me it is anyway.....get something running and I am sure it will evolve... Juggling family and work leaves precious little time for modelling and I have spent toolong in the armchair now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 18, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2013 I wonder if the rivetted, non-beaded tender may have been produced by Bachmann in connection with a different loco, perhaps? If so, might be worth contacting them to see if any spares are available? Ah now there 's a thought....Midland 2P anyone????!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The Fowler tender that's also attached to Bachmann's 4F is also the wrong one for an Armstrong in BR (60's) days. It has the big gangway doors into the coal space, whereas all of the photos I've found show Armstrongs attached to earlier Fowler tenders, the ones with just the simple 'coal hole' with wide transverse tool box above it on the tender front. A bit like the tender front of a Johnson tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2013 Starting to get my head around this now. Had a breif chat with Jerry at the Cardiff show on Sunday last. I think what I am aiming for is an overall look , a model to satisfy me,rather than the rivet counters........ After all,it's my trainset...... Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 27, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2013 Well picked up my 4F this afternoon. 43875, early crest. How nice is that? As a bonus 43875 was an S&D loco..Ivo has it as a Bath loco in Sept 1950. Lovely model,really pleased with it. The backhead/cab is a joy to behold.........However the best way to appreciate it is to take a photo on the Memsahibs smart phone and enlarge it.......Must go to specsavers.. Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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