murray1 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I have bought a Lima HST in blue grey livery and want to re-number it as an East Coast 254 set. It will remain blue grey but as it it has the single window on the power car, can anyone advise as to the ealriest date that would be correct for a set on the East Coast and what numbers it/they would have. In addition, any tips on the best source/manufacturer for the transfers to supply the 254 XXX number on the front of the power car would be of great help. All the pictures I can find in the book Heyday of the HST by Gavin Morrison show the blue grey sets running with the TGS but the power cars still have the 2 windows - indicating a gaurds compartment. The Western sets appear to have the modiification earlier than Eastern but any help on this will be much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I have bought a Lima HST in blue grey livery and want to re-number it as an East Coast 254 set. It will remain blue grey but as it it has the single window on the power car, can anyone advise as to the ealriest date that would be correct for a set on the East Coast and what numbers it/they would have. In addition, any tips on the best source/manufacturer for the transfers to supply the 254 XXX number on the front of the power car would be of great help. All the pictures I can find in the book Heyday of the HST by Gavin Morrison show the blue grey sets running with the TGS but the power cars still have the 2 windows - indicating a gaurds compartment. The Western sets appear to have the modiification earlier than Eastern but any help on this will be much appreciated. As built, 43002-43152 had guard's accommodation (two windows each side at the rear of the power car, plus one small window adjacent to the gangway), and 43153-198 were built without guard's accommodation i.e. van area only, as modelled by Lima (one small window only each side at the rear, and no small window adjacent to the gangway). From memory, of the power cars without guard's accommodation, only 43153-43162 were allocated to the ECML from new. These sets were delivered in 1982, several years after the main batch of East Coast HSTs, which were delivered in 1978-79. 43193-198 were transferred to the ECML later, having been delivered in Class 253 sets for the North East - South West route. I think that set numbers 254033-254037 may have been allocated to the units containing 43153-162. In practice, power cars were usually mixed up and rarely kept with their allocated partner or coaching stock rake. For this reason the 254 numbers disappeared fairly early in the lives of the ECML HSTs and it may be that they were never carried by 43153-162 from delivery in 1982. This picture of 43153 and 43156 on test, brand new in 1982, seems to confirm that 254 xxx numbers were not carried by this batch: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305291 If you want to use your Lima power cars in an East Coast HST, then your best option is to number them both as one of 43153-43162 and not bother with 254 numbers. This would be OK for the years 1982 to 1986 or 1987, depending on when the power cars were repainted into Executive livery. 43193-198 should be viable options too, although I can't remember when they were transferred from the WR - and they may have entered traffic on the East Coast with 253 xxx numbers still in place. Hope this helps Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray1 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks Tom - useful information. How do you know what 253/254 number is allocated to the power car with side numbers 43XXX. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Good question! I have just had a quick Google and couldn't find this information easily. Set formations used to be published in the RCTS coaching stock books - I had a copy of the one for 1982 - and later in the Ian Allan ABC combined volumes and Platform 5 spotting books. If I find these details later I will post them here. Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If I recall, the Lima model is also fitted with the roof exhaust deflector plate. These were retro-fitted to earlier power cars from around 1979 and later batches (as portrayed by the Lima model) had them from new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Did the set formations listed in Platform 5 and similar books not just list the coach numbers within the set rather than the power cars at each end? Presumably because the power cars changed frequently with maintenance requirements and any publication would rapidly become out of date Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 the 1981 and 1982 Ian Allen combineds give the following 253 001 W43002 and W43003 in sequence to 253 027 W43054 and W43055 254 001 E43056 and E43057 in sequence to 254 032 E43118 and E43119 spare W43120 W43121 E43122 E43123 W43124 253 028 W43125 and W43126 in sequence to 253 041 W43151 and W43152 254 033 to 254 039 on order with 43153 and 43154 to 43161 and 43162 253 042 to 253 059 on order with 43163 and 43164 through to 43195 and 43196 spare 43197 and 43198 253 001 to 032 had set numbers as did the early 254s, I,m not sure at what stage they were deleted and the E and W prefixes went at some point and then much later the numbers started to appear in class 43 format such as 43 003 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 a bit more digging, by 1983 ,43044 to 43055 and 43121 had moved to the Eastern Region and operated as 254s but probably without such numbers displayed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 A few early ECML pics if they are of use? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray1 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Great pictures - almost all with the gaurds compartment window and door window. Thank you. The picture of the power car with the single window looks like it has no number on front panel. All the information on the sequence of numbers posted earlier is very useful. Still looking for an example as built by Lima with the 254XXX number showing to finish off my model. Thanks all for your help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted October 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2013 Here are the earliest ones I can find on the ECML, in chronological order. Sorry I don't have the numbers for many of them. None of them are carrying set numbers. Claypole Class 254 up ex pass Feb 81 C5281 South Newsham Class 254 diverted up ex pass going away April 81 C5310 Scremerston Class 254 up ex pass Aug 81 C5482 Lucker Class 254 up ex pass August 1982 C5809 Morpeth Class 253 Edinburgh to Plymouh Oct 83 C6317 more for the livery variation - white double arrow on front. South Newsham 43056 down diverted ex pass going away 19th Feb 84 C6462 Morpeth 43158 up diverted via Blyth and Tyne after sleeping car train derailment 24th June 84 C6546 Newcastle 43161 13th Aug 84 C6638 David Edited to add information D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray1 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 David Thanks, proof i can run the model naked on the front - good to know and excellent selection of photographs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Some wonderful photos of what is still the greatest diesel train in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Some wonderful photos of what is still the greatest diesel train in the world. Can't disagree about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Some great pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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