BR Trestrol EO steel plate wagon

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

 

I don't think fitting the base plate upside down will make any difference, all you will need to do is file a little material from the bottom of the well end before fitting it into the slot. I take your point about the frets within the base overlay and on the one I'm drawing now I've removed them and drawn them as single items along the edge of the main fret. The reason I did it the way I did originally was that it is better for the etchers if there isn't a lot of big spaces to etch out as that uses a lot more etchant, consequently it costs them more to produce the parts. Cleaning off the remains of the tabs on the version you have is fairly easy if you hold the component against a 12" rule to support it while you file it with a fine (flat) needle file

 

I'm at roughly the same stage as you with the three I am making so keep us posted with your progress.

 

Cheers

Ian

[Arthur]

Thanks for the updates Jon, and for the responses Ian, this will be very helpful to those of us shortly to follow the same path.

 

Arthur

[jonhall]

The floor being upside down didn't cause any issues in the end, another part-evenings work and both platforms are in place.

 

 

Jon

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

 

It's coming along nicely, well done. I've been progressing with the three I am building and so far the instructions have been satisfactory, the only change I have made is to add a line on the paragraph covering fitting of the large well end overlay which says, 'make sure the double row of rivets is at the well end of the deck and the single row is along the bufferbeam'.

 

This is obvious on the instructions with the photographs, but not on the text only version.

 

Cheers

Ian

[Wizard of the Moor]

Ah-ha, I was going to ask you about that. Now I just have to remember it when I get that far.

 

By the way, the biggest difficulty that I have encountered so far was identifying parts 13. They don't appear to have a number etched on the fret.

 

Also, I notice that the trestle front cross frames are different on the etch to how they appear in the instructions. Is that significant? I assume that the uprights need to be faced with 'wood' planks and this will hide the corner cutouts.

 

I have to say that this is a very impressive kit and I would have no hestitation recommending it. If anyone is wondering if they can find an excuse to run one of these wagons, there is a picture in BR Steam in Scotland by George O'Hara of 2MT 78051 hauling a single trestrol and a Stanier brake van at Lockerbie conveying boiler plate to the Cochrane & Coy Newby works at Annan in 1965. You can't get a much shorter train than that!

[macgeordie]

Hi James

 

I never noticed that I'd missed that number off the etch, hopefully it won't throw anybody else. I changed the shape of the trestle frame slightly, as when it is assembled it looks more like the photographs of the real trestle in the photos on Paul Bartlets website. You are correct, the fronts of the trestles do have a wooden plank attached, thin coffee strirrers are ideal to represent these. If you look at Pauls site there are some really good photos of the trestles.

 

Cheers

Ian

[jonhall]

Ian,

 

A bit more feedback from me, and a bit of guidance required.

 

 

I've just attached the two top's of the outer girders, and fortunately realised they were 'handed' I worked out from the online photo's that the rectangles for the base of the D rings are to the outside of the wagon, but it isn't clear on printed pictures and I would suggest a word or two on the subject in the instructions would be helpful.

 

next a few questions -

 

Parts 2 and 4 - again I think I may have finally noticed them in the online photos, but I think it needs to be clearer, part 2 sits on the inside face of the outer girder where it meets the end of the well? Parts 4 sit on both sides of the inner girders where they meet the end of the well? Goodness knows how I attach the ones between the two inners, they would have been a lot easier to fit before the inner girder was fitted to the wagon floor, but I totally missed their purpose at that stage in the build.

 

Next the buffer beam assembly - on the basis of the fold lines being on the inside of the fold, then the pushed out rivets are on the 'inside' of the buffer beams (i.e. if I was standing alongside the wagon bogie I would look outward toward the buffer beam and see three rivets? The other side of the three rivets are represented on the half etch buffer beam overlay.

 

Part 15's - do you have a closer photo of it's intended fit?

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[jonhall]

progress to date and a comparison with a stretched Triang trestrol

 

 

Jon

 

 

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I've been away for the weekend.

 

Ian,

 

A bit more feedback from me, and a bit of guidance required.

 

 

I've just attached the two top's of the outer girders, and fortunately realised they were 'handed' I worked out from the online photo's that the rectangles for the base of the D rings are to the outside of the wagon, but it isn't clear on printed pictures and I would suggest a word or two on the subject in the instructions would be helpful.

 

I'll add a line to the text to clarify this

 

next a few questions -

 

Parts 2 and 4 - again I think I may have finally noticed them in the online photos, but I think it needs to be clearer, part 2 sits on the inside face of the outer girder where it meets the end of the well? Parts 4 sit on both sides of the inner girders where they meet the end of the well? Goodness knows how I attach the ones between the two inners, they would have been a lot easier to fit before the inner girder was fitted to the wagon floor, but I totally missed their purpose at that stage in the build.

 

I'll emphasis the fitting of these parts in the text. I wouldn't worry about missing the inner ones off the model, you can hardly see them anyway, so nobody will notice.

 

Next the buffer beam assembly - on the basis of the fold lines being on the inside of the fold, then the pushed out rivets are on the 'inside' of the buffer beams (i.e. if I was standing alongside the wagon bogie I would look outward toward the buffer beam and see three rivets? The other side of the three rivets are represented on the half etch buffer beam overlay.

 

You surmise correctly, having said that I might as well have left the rivets at the back of the buffer beam off the etch as they are barely visible once the strengthener item 11 is fitted.

 

Part 15's - do you have a closer photo of it's intended fit?

 

The part 15 fits at the end of each of the inner well beams between the beam and the end plate. I'll dig out a photo and post it later.

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

 

Hope this helps. Nice job with the Trestrol EC with extended well. The old Tri-ang model is a very good representation of the wagon, it's a shame they had to shorten it to go around train set curves. Once the wheels are replaced with metal ones in top hat bearings they run very well, I have a couple myself.

 

Cheers

Ian

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

 

Here is a picture of the Inner frame end brackets in position.

 

Cheers

Ian

[jonhall]

Hi Jon

 

Here is a picture of the Inner frame end brackets in position.

 

 

Thanks Ian, thats helpful.

 

I ended up taking out one of the inner longditudinals to fit parts 2/4 it was a bit loose anyway and has gone back in OK. With the exception of the D rings the body is more or less finished, but no photos until the weekend, when I have some natural light.

 

I built a bogie this evening, I think you would be better off with a seperate bogie etch in a thicker material rather than the double lamination arrangement (which could also become a seperate product on its own) and I'd have prefered a simple fold up etch, but I doubt that will surprise anyone.

 

One deviation I made was on the brake gear - looking at your photos I felt that there was too much brake showing, and when I dry tested them my mind was made up - I used a peircing saw to deepen the mounting grooves, then took a thin sliver of brass off the bottom (top) edge so they sit further up, and also took a little bit off the exposed ends of the brake block. Having seen the finished article I'm glad I did, I think its a definate improvement.

 

Jon

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

 

I'm pleased to hear your progressing so well. As I've said before, I'm just another modeller, not a business, so producing a separate etch for the bogie on this model isn't practical as I'd never recover the cost of the extra tooling. By co-incidence what you have suggested is exactly what I have done for the bogies on the diagram 2/680 version I am working on at the moment, but only because the diamond bogies would be very flimsy otherwise.

 

I take your point on the brake gear, but you will need to be careful that the shoes don't get too close to the wheels having done what you have done by moving them higher up.

 

I'm also at the 'fitting the shackles' stage on the three I am building at the moment, I'll try to post a couple of pics later in the week.

 

Ian

[iak]

Are or will anymore of these beasties available for a humble wagon nut to play with.

Being ill again means I keep missing things like this.

And bl##dy marvellous it is too!

[jonhall]

Hi Jon

 

I'm pleased to hear your progressing so well. As I've said before, I'm just another modeller, not a business, so producing a separate etch for the bogie on this model isn't practical as I'd never recover the cost of the extra tooling. By co-incidence what you have suggested is exactly what I have done for the bogies on the diagram 2/680 version I am working on at the moment, but only because the diamond bogies would be very flimsy otherwise.

 

 

 

Ian, I take your point about not being a business, but I would always encourage anyone who is home producing kits to think about the future of the product.

 

Obviously I have no idea of your circumstances, but one day, the ability to sell the rights to the kit to a manufacturer might make the difference between paying the mortgage or not, or your executor might want to pass it on, or you may decide to quit the rat race and start up as a manufacturer proper. There is a value in a not previously marketed kit to manufacturers, and its ease of production and selling will be considered by the manufacturer when he offers a price for the rights to produce it.

 

Your trestrol is laid out on sheet in a way that the sheet cannot be folded to get into a narrower box, which makes it more vulnerable to shipping damage, and takes up more space on a trade stand - I would suggest looking at the sort of boxes that Roxey mouldings use, and targeting laying future sheets out in a way that allows them to fold into 3 longer thin panels.

 

With the bogie, again I don't know who you are using for etching, but with PPD being so cheap, having a separate tool isn't that expensive, it might allow you to get 3 wagons onto an A3 size sheet if you don't have the extra area of the bogies to worry about, and will start to pay dividends as soon as you move onto developing another wagon with the same bogie - not to forget there is also a market for an etched inner to go under a plastic or whitemetal sideframes, I've sold dozens of frets for etched frames for Cambrian Y25 and Gloucester bogies.

 

Jon

[macgeordie]

Are or will anymore of these beasties available for a humble wagon nut to play with.

Being ill again means I keep missing things like this.

And bl##dy marvellous it is too!

Hi Iak

I will be ordering some more etches in a couple of weeks. I have had a few enquiries and have decided to incorporate a few of the suggestions various members, including Jon, have suggested to improve and simplify the build so I'm having a new tool produced. P.M. me for details.

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

Here are a few pics of the current build of three wagons, showing the vacuum pipe and clips made from bits of scrap fret and also pics of the shackles assembled on the wagon.

 

 

 

 

Just need to build the trestles for these now. That's this afternoons job !!!

[jonhall]

Hi Iak

I will be ordering some more etches in a couple of weeks. I have had a few enquiries and have decided to incorporate a few of the suggestions various members, including Jon, have suggested to improve and simplify the build so I'm having a new tool produced. P.M. me for details.

 

Ian

Ian,

 

I'm not sure any of my suggestions warrant a modified phototool - where I have made them it was to help you improve the next kit, and to make others who follow me life easier.

 

If anyone wants an untouched etch of the tressles at cost I think I'm building mind with an SR CCT as a load.

 

Jon

[jonhall]

jibber jibber swear sob swear wibble ...... yes I've reached the shackles

[macgeordie]

jibber jibber swear sob swear wibble ...... yes I've reached the shackles

It's all down to skill with the soldering iron Jon, minimum flux and minimum solder. With a bit of practice you will be able to do one in a couple of minutes. If you have an RSU use it to fit the base plate, it's much easier.

 

Now you know why there are so many spares on the fret !!!!!

 

Have fun 

 

Cheers

Ian

[iak]

Sadistic model making...

Just my sort of thing.

 

Burnezz any one?

[jonhall]

Yesterdays stats were: two shackles destroyed, and three attached to the wagon, 1 that still rotates (the first), one that did rotate until I soldered it onto the wagon, and one that didn't rotate before, and has even less likelihood now. I used to consider myself pretty proficient with a soldering iron, but now I'm not so sure, I've been using an RSU throughout - I would think the kit is pretty difficult without one.

 

Jon

[macgeordie]

Hi Jon

 

I have built the wagons with and without using my RSU just to make sure anybody could build it and the instructions were based on not using an RSU but with comments stating where it would be a better option. On this last batch of three, the only thing I have used the RSU for is mounting the shackle bases and attaching the works plates, everything else was done just using a soldering iron. If you attach the shackle bases with a soldering iron you will need to open out the hole with a 0.5mm drill again as the original hole will get some solder in it no matter how careful you are. Once the bases are attached and the hole drilled, bend the shackle around the 0.45 wire and squeeze it flat just above the wire, slide the wire out and then fit the shackle onto the base unit. Feeding the wire through is a bit fiddly but can be done more easily with fine tweezers. Apply a tiny drop of flux with a cocktail stick then squeeze the shackle together with the tweezers. Put a tiny amount of solder on the iron (it should be virtually dry) and touch the top of the ring. The solder will only flow where the flux is, which is why you need so little. If you think it might be going to lock up, pivot it back and forth as it sets which will keep it free.

 

I have quite a few spare shackles from the builds I have done, if you need some let me know.

 

Cheers

Ian

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi Jon

 

I have built the wagons with and without using my RSU just to make sure anybody could build it and the instructions were based on not using an RSU but with comments stating where it would be a better option. On this last batch of three, the only thing I have used the RSU for is mounting the shackle bases and attaching the works plates, everything else was done just using a soldering iron. If you attach the shackle bases with a soldering iron you will need to open out the hole with a 0.5mm drill again as the original hole will get some solder in it no matter how careful you are. Once the bases are attached and the hole drilled, bend the shackle around the 0.45 wire and squeeze it flat just above the wire, slide the wire out and then fit the shackle onto the base unit. Feeding the wire through is a bit fiddly but can be done more easily with fine tweezers. Apply a tiny drop of flux with a cocktail stick then squeeze the shackle together with the tweezers. Put a tiny amount of solder on the iron (it should be virtually dry) and touch the top of the ring. The solder will only flow where the flux is, which is why you need so little. If you think it might be going to lock up, pivot it back and forth as it sets which will keep it free.

 

I have quite a few spare shackles from the builds I have done, if you need some let me know.

 

Cheers

Ian

 

My thought was why solder it, once it's squeezed up and in position it ain't going nowhere?

 

Mike.

[macgeordie]

Finally managed to get the three wagon completed, I'm quite pleased with the end results.

 

 

I can get on with the drawings for the diagram 2/680 etch now, so I'll be ordering some more stuff from the etchers at the end of this week. A couple of members have asked for etches, so if anybody else wants one let me know before the end of the week.

[RTD4479]

Finally managed to get the three wagon completed, I'm quite pleased with the end results.

 

_MG_0221b.jpg

 

I can get on with the drawings for the diagram 2/680 etch now, so I'll be ordering some more stuff from the etchers at the end of this week. A couple of members have asked for etches, so if anybody else wants one let me know before the end of the week.

Hi,

 

A friend who is not registered on RMWeb is very interested in your wagons and has asked if they are still available?  And if so, can he contact you off-forum to place an order.

 

Regards

Bob