Minories Holborn viaduct

[t-b-g]

There's many a minories inspired plan rattling around my head waiting to get built, including a Swiss HOm version maybe one day in the future (does 2 carriages necessitate a layout or do i need an engine as well? )

 

One of my personal observations for this plan though still concerns the fiddle yard and turning trains around at that end, in my mind it still really needs to be either a turntable FY or a balloon loop for a minimum amount of 'big hand' shunting. Turntable is good for minimum length layout and short trains (but you do need enough width to be able to turn it still) and balloon loop is still my favoured options for slightly longer trains, squeezing in a junction, and some 'on scene' running like my plans a couple of pages ago..... which i'm still not fully happy with and do tinker on occasionally. Interestingly though, as with Mansfield Market Place above, one of my prefered back of envelope scribbles has a centre road for freight arrival and a couple of sidings/bays where the loco spur should be for freight loading/unloading.

 

We worked our fiddle yard (a fan of sidings) by having two locos for each train. There are no turning facilities on Mansfield so when an express leaves, the tender loco ends up chimney first at the far end on the fiddle yard. Another express, which has left the fiddle yard, has the stock shunted to another platform or the centre road or goes back to the fiddle yard "carriage sidings" and the loco that brought that train in departs light engine to go "on shed". In reality, it backs onto the stock in the fiddle yard and forms a future arrival. When that train eventually goes back into the station, it releases the loco trapped at the fiddle yard end, which can then back down into the station coming "off shed" to work another train out.

 

So two locos, one pointing each way (or a good selection of tank locos for a more suburban type operation) works without too much needing to be done in the fiddle yard. If you have a brake van at each end of a freight, the system works for them too but we stuck to swapping the brake van to the other end manually. 

[Clive Mortimore]

There's many a minories inspired plan rattling around my head waiting to get built, including a Swiss HOm version maybe one day in the future (does 2 carriages necessitate a layout or do i need an engine as well? )

 

One of my personal observations for this plan though still concerns the fiddle yard and turning trains around at that end, in my mind it still really needs to be either a turntable FY or a balloon loop for a minimum amount of 'big hand' shunting. Turntable is good for minimum length layout and short trains (but you do need enough width to be able to turn it still) and balloon loop is still my favoured options for slightly longer trains, squeezing in a junction, and some 'on scene' running like my plans a couple of pages ago..... which i'm still not fully happy with and do tinker on occasionally. Interestingly though, as with Mansfield Market Place above, one of my prefered back of envelope scribbles has a centre road for freight arrival and a couple of sidings/bays where the loco spur should be for freight loading/unloading.

Hi

 

Why do you need to turn trains around, surely you only need to change the loco from one end to t'other (and brake van if running freight trains). A traverser is what I use. Even less hassle if a large amount of your operational fleet is units. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87205-sheffield-exchange-chuffing-and-brummmming/?p=1744063

[Satan's Goldfish]

It was more to do with turning tender locomotives around without having to touch them. My current thoughts involve trying to add a turntable on scene so that the released locomotive can be turned ready to take the next departure, but of course that means turning them back again off scene and my clumsy hooves don't agree with fine detail and not knocking other stock off track. Lots of options!

 

Agree though that if using just units or push/pull stock then it's not an issue anyway (one such past plan i thought about used that idea plus 3 locos to cover 2 freight trains that could kick back into sidings in front of the fiddle yard (light engine moves to go and get the next freight))

[danstercivicman]

I'm using a cassette system at the moment, it's quite crude but works well, thing is I ensued most of my stock and locos so I only have the Ivatt 4mt and a dmu, plus loads of coaches. I have spare cassettes so as I get more locos again I can just add to them

[Budgie]

It was more to do with turning tender locomotives around without having to touch them. My current thoughts involve trying to add a turntable on scene so that the released locomotive can be turned ready to take the next departure, but of course that means turning them back again off scene and my clumsy hooves don't agree with fine detail and not knocking other stock off track. Lots of options!

 

Agree though that if using just units or push/pull stock then it's not an issue anyway (one such past plan i thought about used that idea plus 3 locos to cover 2 freight trains that could kick back into sidings in front of the fiddle yard (light engine moves to go and get the next freight))

Have you thought of using a Peco Loco-lift to turn locos around without having to touch them?

[danstercivicman]

Loco lift sounds like a good idea for that or a custom made cassette system with an end the can lift off?

 

Just another question- for a minories style layout what would you suggest as a suitable station pilot to remove/shunt coaches and milk tankers?

 

I have considered Jinty as best for my LMR theme but also J94? What about a class 15?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Loco lift sounds like a good idea for that or a custom made cassette system with an end the can lift off?

 

Just another question- for a minories style layout what would you suggest as a suitable station pilot to remove/shunt coaches and milk tankers?

 

I have considered Jinty as best for my LMR theme but also J94? What about a class 15?

Not a J94. An 08 more likely than a 15.

 

Ivatt/Riddles 2MT another good option on an LMR-themed layout. Where in the country is your other one?

[danstercivicman]

It would be Birmingham or London LMR. I'm planning to call it London Hopegate or Birmingham Hope Street something like that... (after my daughter). I was looking at Leicester which had the GCR and GNR terminus stations also. I guess it will have a very industrial city backscene!

 

I've secured a Stanier 4p tank off an auction site and another BR green DMU (class 108).

 

Has anyone noticed how much locos are costing these days??

 

The Ivatt 2mt is a great suggestion I'm put off class 08's by the price (90 for a shunter)

[danstercivicman]

Here is a video showing my latest progress: a video paints a thousand words https://youtu.be/XfoY1YsJe5E

[danstercivicman]

Hello All,

 

Possibly the wrong place but I thought I would post some pictures of what is being achieved using this wonderful layout plan:  

 

Still very much work in progress and I have been using the Scalescenes kits to good effect- 

 

 

[clecklewyke]

This is coming along nicely and should be a great layout to operate.

 

I can't resist making a "minor" correction. The place in London after which CJF's plan is named is pronounced min, as in sin, not min as in mine.

 

Keep posting!

 

Ian

[danstercivicman]

I never knew that mine might have a bit of Black Country accent added now the layout is now called Birmingham Hope Street and represents a fictional terminal in this fine city

[sp1]

I never knew that mine might have a bit of Black Country accent added now the layout is now called Birmingham Hope Street and represents a fictional terminal in this fine city

If it's in Birmingham it's not a Black Country accent.......

[bluebottle]

This is coming along nicely and should be a great layout to operate.

I can't resist making a "minor" correction. The place in London after which CJF's plan is named is pronounced min, as in sin, not min as in mine.

Keep posting!

 

Ian

 

I'd guess that most of us not familiar with the Great Wen got that wrong at first - I didn't know that before the "Model Railways" September 1981 "Designing Model Railways" special came out. After CJF left  the magazine, MR got into a fankle with the name too, heading an article in the May 1984 issue with "Mac Pyke [sic] describes his latest venture into the 'Minorities' syndrome."

That particular layout, "Victoria Square", was built on two 5' 5" boards for home use with a 2' 6" scenic section to be inserted between the main boards at exhibitions. There was a two-road goods yard with shed in front of the passenger station, and passenger and goods trains actually ran on parallel single tracks - to give an illusion of double track - to four- and three-road storage fans respectively. The overall impression of the scenic sections (judging by the photos; I never saw the actual layout) is rather prettier than most Minories-derived layouts.

Edited November 16, 2016 by bluebottle

[danstercivicman]

If it's in Birmingham it's not a Black Country accent.......

Sorry I meant my accent maybe Black Country now, the layout is set in Birmingham   It gets complicated when you make up Station names although Wolverhampton Hope St was also a runner!

[sp1]

Sorry I meant my accent maybe Black Country now, the layout is set in Birmingham It gets complicated when you make up Station names although Wolverhampton Hope St was also a runner!

Mine is going to have real Black Country place names (though none of them ever had a station.....) - starting with 'Silver End' (baseboards built), and when I expand there will be a Minories style 'Brettell Lane' - further expansion might see both approached via 'Amblecote Bank' : all real places near Brierley Hill, where some of my ancestors lived.

[BobM]

Here is a video showing my latest progress: a video paints a thousand words https://youtu.be/XfoY1YsJe5E

As one Midlander to another 'bostin' !

[sp1]

As one Midlander to another 'bostin' !

Agree!

[danstercivicman]

More progress has been undertaken, I have added yet morescale scene arches and have added the wiring to allow the platform tracks to be unpowered so that I can use the station pilot to pull the stock out (I have removed the turnouts before ballasting as these will be under part of the canopy).

 

I have also heavily weathered the tracks using sleeper grime! It's not perfect but it looks ten times better!

 

Pics next week.

 

Love those station names

 

Thanks for the compliments- 'youm a goodun'

Or yow am a goodun??

[sp1]

More progress has been undertaken, I have added yet morescale scene arches and have added the wiring to allow the platform tracks to be unpowered so that I can use the station pilot to pull the stock out (I have removed the turnouts before ballasting as these will be under part of the canopy).

 

I have also heavily weathered the tracks using sleeper grime! It's not perfect but it looks ten times better!

 

Pics next week.

 

Love those station names

 

Thanks for the compliments- 'youm a goodun'

Or yow am a goodun??

Yo'm a goodun!

 

I chose the station names as my family owned a number of firebrick works in the area : one of their customers was the LNWR (their account books for the the 1880s survive) - interesting to think that their locos couldn't have run without 'our' firebricks in their firebox....

In spite of that I am modelling GWR....(even though I am also a distant cousin of a certain Sir Gilbert Claughton......)

Sorry to go a bit OT!

[danstercivicman]

Apparently firebricks were very important to everything! There's some amazing old buildings in wolves but sadly most are being knocked down for houses

[DCB]

Loco lift sounds like a good idea for that or a custom made cassette system with an end the can lift off?

 

Just another question- for a minories style layout what would you suggest as a suitable station pilot to remove/shunt coaches and milk tankers?

 

I have considered Jinty as best for my LMR theme but also J94? What about a class 15?

Most times in steam days a station pilot will be a locomotive between other duties rather than the dedicated shunter of diesel days. Most steam 0-6-0T will run at 60 mph whereas a Gronk waddles along at 20 ish.   In an emergency the station pilot would take over a train, this is why many large stations had tender locos standing pilot and shunting.   LMS ststions had pilots standing by in case of overloads.   Liverpool St famously had a J69 and an N7 highly polished on pilot duties which would take over a train at short notice between trips to /from carriage sidings etc   There are many rosters where a loco from one depot takes a train to another station maybe 40 miles away, spends some time two to many hours on pilot duty and then returns with another train.   I would not use a dedicated pilot.  One may well be rostered to turn up, shunt for a while and then depart.  but I would simply use the loco of an incoming train to act as pilot until I got bored and swap it for another.

The small shunter attached to a depot is largely a diesel era phenomenon.  Small steam locos used to make their way along main lines instead of being taken on low loaders like Gronks, it was a different world in steam days.

Edited November 26, 2016 by DavidCBroad

[danstercivicman]

Most times in steam days a station pilot will be a locomotive between other duties rather than the dedicated shunter of diesel days. Most steam 0-6-0T will run at 60 mph whereas a Gronk waddles along at 20 ish.   In an emergency the station pilot would take over a train, this is why many large stations had tender locos standing pilot and shunting.   LMS ststions had pilots standing by in case of overloads.   Liverpool St famously had a J69 and an N7 highly polished on pilot duties which would take over a train at short notice between trips to /from carriage sidings etc   There are many rosters where a loco from one depot takes a train to another station maybe 40 miles away, spends some time two to many hours on pilot duty and then returns with another train.   I would not use a dedicated pilot.  One may well be rostered to turn up, shunt for a while and then depart.  but I would simply use the loco of an incoming train to act as pilot until I got bored and swap it for another.

The small shunter attached to a depot is largely a diesel era phenomenon.  Small steam locos used to make their way along main lines instead of being taken on low loaders like Gronks, it was a different world in steam days.

 

Cheers for the info, in that case I guess whatever loco brought the milk train in (early morning I presume) would then be the best one to set up to handle the pull backs of the morning passenger stock...   

 

Otherwise I am thinking an Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 would be perfect for shunting and also for suburban workings

[Pacific231G]

Cheers for the info, in that case I guess whatever loco brought the milk train in (early morning I presume) would then be the best one to set up to handle the pull backs of the morning passenger stock...   

 

Otherwise I am thinking an Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 would be perfect for shunting and also for suburban workings

If memory serves I'm pretty sure that, more often than not, the station pilot at Oxford in the last years of steam was a Hall. Am I right in thinking that a station pilot was different from the locos at larger termini dedicated to moving trains between the platforms and the carriage sidings where they were cleaned and serviced? As I recall, at Paddington these were often pannier tanks.

 

Though there's no reason to only use the plan for this, Cyril Freezer based Minories on the idea of the inner terminus of a busy suburban line where an incoming train's loco would wait to be released by the departure of the train it had recently brought in then move to throat end of the station ready to take another train out. During this it would also take on water and the whole process was more efficient if tank locos were used. This led to some interestingly intense working that was rather kiilled off by the introduction of push-pull and MU trains. Before that happened, a lot of work was done by traffic departments to rationalise the use of platforms and locos in order to squeeze as many trains in and out of increasingly busy termini at peak times.

 

At one terminus I know of, and probably others, they even installed water cranes at the buffer end of platforms so that a loco that had just come in could take water while it was waiting to be released and so be ready to move straight to the head of the train it would take out. It all seems to have been a bit like planning F1 pit stops to shave a couple of minutes here and there.     

Edited November 29, 2016 by Pacific231G

[danstercivicman]

Makes good sense, I definitely plan to increase my allocation of tank engines (wife permitting)!

 

I've ordered some point rodfing... shudder... also I'm planning a lever frame for the diary yard... anyone know where the rodding should go?

 

How many lever frame bars do I need?

 

Someone had posted s very good signal diagram for minories, but point ridding I have never tried before